Ilunga Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said: Again, what you call whataboutism; I call realism. Hezbollah is absolutely a 50, really 80 year, contributor to this conflict. 10,000 missiles cannot be wrong! Calling for Israel to be reigned to legal standards has merit only in parallel with those for Hezbollah. As there is no faculty for holding either accountable? Hence we are at war. Solutions are to call for concessions by both sides. Hezbollah was founded in 1982, so no, they haven't contributed to this conflict for 80 years. I am, and will continue to call for Israel to be held accountable for their war crimes in Gaza. As I will for Hamas to be held accountable for their acts of terror. As I will for Hezbollah to. It always gets back to a proportionate response. I don't believe killing tens of thousands of women and children, that we know about, bodies still buried in the rubble. Injuring a 100,000 more. Basically destroying Gaza is a proportionate response. You often pressure me to answer a question you pose. You never answered mine. How would you feel, and what would you do, if you were a Palestinian living in Gaza ? If your daughter was killed ? Do you believe we should stop calling for Hamas to be held accountable ? Rules for one and not for the other. A country gets away with war crimes/crimes against humanity, they are more likely to repeat this behaviour. As Israel keeps doing, in both Gaza and the West Bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 To add to my last post : 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 2 hours ago, grover said: Does Palestine have the right to defend itself? It will? I mean that sincerely! As mentioned by doctrine; Palestinian leadership has rejected all forms of other cultures & religions who must relent to their ''right!'' For exclusive control over the territory and other cultures, other religions. To use Jihad to accomplish this! As mentioned by another poster this has included 15/16 wars between these two sides being initiated by the side quote / unquote representing Palestinians. Its a cycle that has repeated itself; including Oct 7. My summary answer is NO, & I hate saying that! The reason is Hamas is not trying to defend themselves. Nor Hezbollah. The PLO before them. They have been instigators. If it were as simple as Jihadists never attacked Israel? The circumstance where Israeli mobs flood the West Bank & attack local farmers, markets should indeed by defendable. Innocents who do not buy in to Islamic Jihad have been affected? Yet wear the position of their leaders when they should be able to defend themselves! When cultures are told they have no right to exist as Israel has? Its going to attract IDGAF... Under no circumstance is the ideological position taken by Islamic Jihad acceptable. NONE! I am a firm believer that many in Israel have abused this? As there are Palestinians not believing in Jihad caught in crosshairs. That part is not fair! Palestinians can / have to make it simpler for themselves by stating they accept other religions and cultures. Disavowing themselves from Jihad. Look at Gaza; almost 98% pure, all other cultures, religions gone. Where is real Apartheid? It took less than 24 hours from Israel being acknowledged in partition for the Arab League to try and wipe Israel out! Any culture who wants to live in peace, acknowledging all other cultures will have a right to defend itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 People also ask Who started the conflict Israel or Palestine? Following the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel on 14 May 1948, the Arab League decided to intervene on behalf of Palestinian Arabs, marching their forces into former British Palestine, beginning the main phase of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 On 10/16/2024 at 6:24 AM, grover said: Context to these claims : 176 journalists have been killed 256 UN staff members more 800 medical aid workers the targeted attack of a WFK after coordination with the IDF of a preplanned convoy Oh, and these are just numbers from Gaza, not including the wounded. Love how you mention context and then some zero context and completely ignore the facts. For example, the WCK vehicle was driving at night and communications had gone down. A gunman had fired from the roof of the building before it was targeted, and the WCK vehicle decided to continue with it's route despite having a gun man fire from it's vehicle and being unable to communicate with Israel what had happened. You also fail to mention the multiple of medical and journalist workers found working for Hamas, including the doctor and the journalist who had hostages in their homes. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 Reports saying Israel may have got Sinwar, waiting on DNA test. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 13 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Reports saying Israel may have got Sinwar, waiting on DNA test. Looks very likely. Warning - the spoiler is very graphic. Spoiler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 This is very much related to the ongoing war between Hamas and Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 1 minute ago, RomanPer said: Looks very likely. Warning - the spoiler is very graphic. Reveal hidden contents I wonder what comes next, could Hamas be finished as a political entity or is that too much to hope for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 2 hours ago, RomanPer said: Looks very likely. Warning - the spoiler is very graphic. Reveal hidden contents DNA testing is seeming to confirm it: I wonder if Sinwar was hiding amongst hostages the whole time and just came up for a breather or if he was really that good at evading the IDF this whole time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 2 hours ago, Bob Long said: I wonder what comes next, could Hamas be finished as a political entity or is that too much to hope for? Who is Israel negotiating with at this point? Hopefully, Sinwar's death pushes both sides towards negotiating a ceasefire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 Just now, Taxi said: Who is Israel negotiating with at this point? Hopefully, Sinwar's death pushes both sides towards negotiating a ceasefire. Who is left that represents Palestinians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 7 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Who is left that represents Palestinians? They have a bunch of leadership still alive in Qatar, but how connected are they to the militants in Gaza at this point? There's also been talk of a coalition of the PLO and an international group, led by the Saudis and the UAE, taking over during the rebuilding. Until 2007, Gaza was run by the PLO, so if the people of Gaza give up on Hamas, then the PLO would have rightful claim to leadership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Taxi said: DNA testing is seeming to confirm it: I wonder if Sinwar was hiding amongst hostages the whole time and just came up for a breather or if he was really that good at evading the IDF this whole time. Israeli TV radio station reported that he was caught while trying to get to a tunnel towards Egypt with 2 bodyguards. Allegedly, he was gunned down by a young conscript who just was mobilized 9 months ago. Edited October 17 by RomanPer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louggy Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 7 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Israeli TV radio station reported that he was caught while trying to get to a tunnel towards Egypt with 2 bodyguards. Allegedly, he was gunned down by a young conscript who just was mobilized 9 months ago. That conscript better be provided with a house and all expenses state paid for the rest of their life. Hopefully Hamas or the Palestinian people elect a new leader that wants to work on a peace deal with Israel. Since firing hundreds of indiscriminate rockets per year at Israel and manipulating individuals to commit terror attacks only leads to poverty, death, and destruction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 Hopefully the hostages who would have been near Sinwar are safe? They can be rescued. Its a somber moment; I feel the pain of Sinwar victims, especially but not only the ones he killed with his own hands. Hopefully they can sleep unhaunted now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 3 hours ago, Taxi said: They have a bunch of leadership still alive in Qatar, but how connected are they to the militants in Gaza at this point? There's also been talk of a coalition of the PLO and an international group, led by the Saudis and the UAE, taking over during the rebuilding. Until 2007, Gaza was run by the PLO, so if the people of Gaza give up on Hamas, then the PLO would have rightful claim to leadership. 'Leadership' in Qatar should be asked to hand themselves in; be offered exile if offering information which tears down militant structures. Not a decision making role. Except asking their own to go weapons down? This is what can be asked of leaders who are safely away where they are connected to Iran. There should be no rush, the opposite in fact to nominate from existing structures like the PA, Abbas. Who can themselves stay out of jail by aiding administration transfer, access to existing & probably hidden resources. A coalition of, perhaps some already overseas, survivors including women avowed in peace should work with support agencies to first and foremost create organization in caring for the massive stateless & homeless crisis. Create feed kitchens, medical services, volunteers. Let real leadership groups emerge amongst the people themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 (edited) Apparently one of the bodyguards with Sinwar was a UNRWA teacher: https://www.timesnownews.com/world/middle-east/yahya-sinwars-bodyguard-was-a-unrwa-teacher-alleged-photo-of-passport-surfaces-article-114327202 Don't know anything about this website. There's a lot of misinformation on the topic, so this could be totally wrong. Edit: The passport expired in 2017 and may have been on Sinwar himself and not the bodyguard. Edited October 17 by Taxi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 So Sinwar may have fled the tunnel where the six Israeli hostages were executed a few months ago: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-recovered-sinwars-dna-in-tunnel-complex-where-6-executed-hostages-were-found/ Would fit with his M.O. of being ruthless. Would also explain why he was found wandering around top side without any hostages and why there has been so little communication on his end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 Allah'u ackbar indeed. What a great day for humanity. Thousands upon Thousands of Gazans lives will be saved by what happened today. Now, hopefully the other rats give up the fight and the tunnels and the hostages and take the offer from Netanyahu to lay down arms, give back the hostages and live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 10 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Allah'u ackbar indeed. What a great day for humanity. Thousands upon Thousands of Gazans lives will be saved by what happened today. Now, hopefully the other rats give up the fight and the tunnels and the hostages and take the offer from Netanyahu to lay down arms, give back the hostages and live. Did they get the Houthi leaders yet? Or are they 2/3 so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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