Hamas attacking Israel

[Playoff Beered]

More info from people that know things...

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

More info from people that know things...

 

 

Thank you for posting this evidence @Playoff Beered of what HAMAS is doing to their own people. 
I wonder if UN Peace Keepers could go into that area and help the people get safely to safety and Israel waits until the innocent people are out of harm’s way? Or would HAMAS just shoot the Peace Keepers? 

[Playoff Beered]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Thank you for posting this evidence @Playoff Beered of what HAMAS is doing to their own people. 
I wonder if UN Peace Keepers could go into that area and help the people get safely to safety and Israel waits until the innocent people are out of harm’s way? Or would HAMAS just shoot the Peace Keepers? 

 

I can't answer that question. Also I would like to add that these sources like all others are not infallible, new info could come out that challenges this.

[Riddikulus]

22 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, even though some of the posters are on my ignore list, I can still see their takes quoted by the others. And in most cases it just strengthens my original decision to ignore them.

The fact that you can't handle dissenting opinions and feel the need to block anyone who disagrees with your takes says that you are far too emotional about this subject to be taken seriously. The evidence is also in your posts in this thread which lack even a shred of objectivity. 

22 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

This the perfect example. No matter what the atrocity is, these people will always find a way to turn it into Israel’s fault. What is it if not a blatant antisemitism?

 

Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism, but its far more comforting to believe that those who disagree with you are driven by hatred than to take the time to try to understand where they are coming from. I have been reading through most of this thread and I can't find any posters who have been antisemitic. Please provide examples if you are going to make such accusations.

[RomanPer]

2 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

The fact that you can't handle dissenting opinions and feel the need to block anyone who disagrees with your takes says that you are far too emotional about this subject to be taken seriously. The evidence is also in your posts in this thread which lack even a shred of objectivity. 

 

Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism, but its far more comforting to believe that those who disagree with you are driven by hatred than to take the time to try to understand where they are coming from. I have been reading through most of this thread and I can't find any posters who have been antisemitic. Please provide examples if you are going to make such accusations.

 

There are plenty of people in this thread that I didn’t ignore and have criticized Israel. Just ask @Ilunga, @Canuck Surfer, @Sharpshooter, etc. If you look at my own posts, I fully expect and support the notion that Netanyahu has to answer for his actions. The people i put on ignore are the ones who are not engaging in discussion but rather blame everything on Israel. In my books it is antisemitism. And I’m not going into philosophical discussion what is and what isn’t antisemitism. Being Jewish who was born and raised in former Soviet Union, i know what it is extremely well. Saying “Israel shouldn’t be there in the first place”, “Hamas was a paper tiger and Israel purposely converted them into terrorists” is antisemitism.

[Provost]

40 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Didn't miss it at all: the most likely trigger of that explosion was Hamas. Period. 

It isn't 100% proven, nor likely can it be ever, but on the balance of probabilities, Hamas moved to stem the flow of their people to the south as they require them to remain in place to shield Hamas from answering for their murderous terror strike last Saturday.

Please cite the background you have researched for this that is more than pure entirely random conjecture based on your personal biases.

 

There is no history of Gaza fighters using car bombs as a strategy.  The very few in this conflict over decades that have been used were by perpetrators in and from the West Bank. 

 

I can assure you it has an incredibly low likelihood of being an IED like was suggested.  They just don’t work that way.  They don’t pick and choose a vehicle in the midst of a steady stream of thousands of vehicles on a highway to blow up.  Someone throwing it onto the highway would expect to be a casualty themselves for little result.

 

It also is just not a simple or effective method to block traffic if that was their aim.  Simply take a few cars or a bus…  Make them non operational across the highway at a chokepoint.  You don’t need suicide bombers or hard to get explosives.  It would be traffic chaos, vehicles would run out of gas while waiting for it to clear… it is a super simple thing to do and doesn’t require bombings their own people.

 

What we DO know for a fact is that Israel is currently undertaking a campaign of constant airstrikes in Gaza. That is verified by independent observers and clear on videos.

 

There are numerous instance of evacuation routes being indiscriminately bombed along with other targets   Not in any sort of patterned way that would indicate the intentional blockade of escape routes at different choke points.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/14/middleeast/gaza-israel-evacuation-saturday-intl-hnk/index.html

 

The only side that has been shown to do that so far is Israel that repeatedly bombed the only foreign checkpoint out of Gaza at Rafah.  They admitted doing it and have said they do not intend to allow any aid to come in on that route.

 

They have successfully sealed off the only escape route from Gaza which is awfully strange for wanting them to evacuate.

 

That is all aside from the fact the entire order to evacuate a million people, including hospitals and refugee camps is a war crime and illegal.  It is also logistically impossible and they know that.
 

On top of that, it has no tactical advantage for their stated aims.  Guess who would leave at the same time?  Hamas fighters.  They would leave with the civilian population and then come back when those civilians returned.  
 

It is either another land grab; a chance to raze half of Gaza as retribution; a way to gift a veneer of moral cover when they kill many of the tens of thousands who are simply unable to evacuate.

 

The ones who were unable to leave now get told they deserve to die and shelled even more indiscriminately.  Many of the ones who left will die anyways from hunger, disease, thirst, and exposure.  A large chunk of them were already in refugee camps in northern Gaza after being displaced by Israel earlier.  There isn’t a million shelters in southern Gaza for them.  There isn’t food and water for a million of them in southern Gaza.

 

It is a death sentence either way.

[RomanPer]

28 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Thank you for posting this evidence @Playoff Beered of what HAMAS is doing to their own people. 
I wonder if UN Peace Keepers could go into that area and help the people get safely to safety and Israel waits until the innocent people are out of harm’s way? Or would HAMAS just shoot the Peace Keepers? 

 

One of the problems with UN Peace Keepers - even though they carry weapons, they can’t really use them. Also, depending on who is selected as UN Peace Keepers plays a lot into their effectiveness. For example (and i know that suggestion wasn’t taken serious by anyone), Kadyrov offered to use his tiktokers as Peace Keepers in Israel.

[Sharpshooter]

21 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

The fact that you can't handle dissenting opinions and feel the need to block anyone who disagrees with your takes says that you are far too emotional about this subject to be taken seriously. The evidence is also in your posts in this thread which lack even a shred of objectivity. 

 

Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism, but its far more comforting to believe that those who disagree with you are driven by hatred than to take the time to try to understand where they are coming from. I have been reading through most of this thread and I can't find any posters who have been antisemitic. Please provide examples if you are going to make such accusations.

I would suggest taking @RomanPer seriously when he speaks about matters concerning Ukraine or Israel. 
 

I have criticized Israel, Netenyahoo a ton over the years, here and at CDC. 

 

I never made it personal though. 
 

I agree that there’s innocent blood on both sides of this newest war, in the broader scope of the conflict, but no personal incitement will be tolerated. 
 

I have requested every Member that posts in this thread to “Be Kind, Use Empathy”. 

Let’s discuss. Not inflame. 

 

28 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

The fact that you can't handle dissenting opinions and feel the need to block anyone who disagrees with your takes says that you are far too emotional about this subject to be taken seriously. The evidence is also in your posts in this thread which lack even a shred of objectivity. 

 

Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism, but its far more comforting to believe that those who disagree with you are driven by hatred than to take the time to try to understand where they are coming from. I have been reading through most of this thread and I can't find any posters who have been antisemitic. Please provide examples if you are going to make such accusations.

Criticism of Israeli policies towards the Palestinians is totally fair game. 
 

Inciting or inflaming other Members who have a personal connection to the situation isn’t going to be tolerated. 
 

Attacks ideas. Not fellow Members. Aggressive or Passive-Aggressive behaviour will be monitored and dealt with. 

[Sharpshooter]

I enjoy the rigorous discussion, the news, history lessons and above all, the respect between us all. 
 

Let’s keep it that way. 
 

The rest is pissing matches and nonsense. 
 

Don’t say you haven’t been warned. 
 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

7 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I would suggest taking @RomanPer seriously when he speaks about matters concerning Ukraine or Israel. 
 

I have criticized Israel, Netenyahoo a ton over the years, here and at CDC. 

 

I never made it personal though. 
 

I agree that there’s innocent blood on both sides of this newest war, in the broader scope of the conflict, but no personal incitement will be tolerated. 
 

I have requested every Member that posts in this thread to “Be Kind, Use Empathy”. 

Let’s discuss. Not inflame. 

 

I appreciate you taking a modest approach with moderation especially with a polarizing and divisive issue such as this. 

[RomanPer]

3 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I appreciate you taking a modest approach with moderation especially with a polarizing and divisive issue such as this. 

 

I don’t know if you noticed - i was banned for 24 hours for snapping  

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I appreciate you taking a modest approach with moderation especially with a polarizing and divisive issue such as this. 

This place is an extension of our former Adults’ Table. (Shout out to @King Heffy @Gurn and others for its creation and management)

 

Let’s behave like adults while discussing an adult topic. 
 

We have a lot on our respective minds and a lot of opinions. 
 

Most importantly, there’s no fighting in a war thread! 

 

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

I don’t know if you noticed - i was banned for 24 hours for snapping  

I implemented that ban on someone I like. 
 

Imagine what I’d do to the rest of you! 
 

 

Let’s keep it civil folks.

 

Information and discussion of that information is better than pissing matches. 

[Riddikulus]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I would suggest taking @RomanPer seriously when he speaks about matters concerning Ukraine or Israel. 
 

I have criticized Israel, Netenyahoo a ton over the years, here and at CDC. 

I would suggest otherwise as I think he is far too close to the situation to look at things rationally. Anyone that sees things from a black and white perspective in this situation shouldn't be taken seriously.

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I never made it personal though. 
 

I agree that there’s innocent blood on both sides of this newest war, in the broader scope of the conflict, but no personal incitement will be tolerated. 
 

I have requested every Member that posts in this thread to “Be Kind, Use Empathy”. 

Let’s discuss. Not inflame. 

I replied to the post because @RomanPer accused @Provost of antisemitism. My reply wasn't nearly as inflammatory as the post that I quoted so I am genuinely confused why you are quoting me for "personal incitement". I will cease my posting in this thread though.

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Here is a thread by OSINTtechnical, they are pretty good at this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well to start, you have never heard of them before this just like everyone else.  They describe themselves as a "boating enthusiast" on their twitter profile.  We know nothing about them or their personal perspectives.

Next, they don't say it was a Hamas attack and simply state it as one of their hypothesized possiblities.

Next, it is virtually impossible to capture a missile on camera at close range.  It is just math.  An air to surface missiles is going to be travelling several thousand kilometres per hour... or 1-3 kilometres per second roughly at point of impact.  A camera phone isn't going to have the frame rate to capture something that fast, especially when it is so close the field of vision is a few metres.  A missile would traverse that in a tiny fraction of a tenth of a second.  Not seeing a missile if it is one is expected, not proof that there isn't one.  Go look at videos of Ukrainians destroying Russian tanks over the last couple of years.  You just see the explosion and not the missile... and those would be much slower ones than modern air to surface or surface to surface missiles Israel would be using.

The comments about audio are also just so silly to just be random.  Sound and light travel at different speeds, there is a ton of background noises in the video and again, it is so close that any sound of a rocket would merge with the sound of the explosion.

Here is one of a thousand examples you could look at.

It is just folks with no expertise or different levels of expertise musing about the resulting explosion.  No one can use it as even the slightest actual evidence of anything.

[Warhippy]

What is a semite?

 

a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.

 

What does it mean to be anti Semitic?

 

Antisemitism is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews. This sentiment is a form of racism, and a person who harbours it is called an antisemite.

 

Why again is it not about the semetic people's of the area ?

 

In the contemporary era, a manifestation known as "new antisemitism" was identified. This concept addresses the exploitation of the Arab–Israeli conflict by a large number of concealed antisemites, who may attempt to gain traction or legitimacy for their antisemitic hoaxes by portraying themselves as criticizing the Israeli government's actions; this is distinct from people who view Israeli government policies negatively, which is not inherently antisemitic. Likewise, as the State of Israel has a Jewish-majority population, it is common for antisemitic rhetoric to be manifested in expressions of anti-Israeli sentiment, though this is not always the case and such expressions may sometimes be part of wider anti–Middle Eastern sentiment without an exclusively antisemitic motive.

 

Again.  There will never be peace in the area.  The conflict is to generational

[JIAHN]

I find the shock and confusion in these forums, laughable.

 

Sorry everyone............there alot of you, I truly respect...but come on!

 

Man has been warring, and dominating other men since time began

 

Since the time where man, came out of Africa

 

Tribes, have been pushed out of area's for food and territory for millena

 

The expectation that 1 tribe is good while the other is evil, is only perspective

 

I (me) sit on the side of Ukraine and Israel, but I know it is only my perspective that allows that POV

 

Do I want to see people die? Of course not!, I am simply saying it is the human condition, and that

 

IF, the tides were changed, and the power was in the other hands

 

Israel, would not exist. It is basically in the Kuran (Quran)

 

We pride ourselves as being more evolved than animal, but basically we are not

 

And every time in history that peace has reigned, someone notices the weakness and 

 

tries to dominate, hence the continuation of hostilities will always continue...

 

This is not to be confused with trying to improve, or trying to stop these types of things...

 

Just don't be so shocked when it happens!

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

54 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

I would suggest otherwise as I think he is far too close to the situation to look at things rationally. Anyone that sees things from a black and white perspective in this situation shouldn't be taken seriously.

I replied to the post because @RomanPer accused @Provost of antisemitism. My reply wasn't nearly as inflammatory as the post that I quoted so I am genuinely confused why you are quoting me for "personal incitement". I will cease my posting in this thread though.

That issue was dealt with. 
 

I haven’t seen any antisemitism either. 
 

That’s why no action was taken. 
 

Let’s move on to discuss news about the topic at hand. 
 

 

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

What is a semite?

 

a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.

 

What does it mean to be anti Semitic?

 

Antisemitism is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews. This sentiment is a form of racism, and a person who harbours it is called an antisemite.

 

Why again is it not about the semetic people's of the area ?

 

In the contemporary era, a manifestation known as "new antisemitism" was identified. This concept addresses the exploitation of the Arab–Israeli conflict by a large number of concealed antisemites, who may attempt to gain traction or legitimacy for their antisemitic hoaxes by portraying themselves as criticizing the Israeli government's actions; this is distinct from people who view Israeli government policies negatively, which is not inherently antisemitic. Likewise, as the State of Israel has a Jewish-majority population, it is common for antisemitic rhetoric to be manifested in expressions of anti-Israeli sentiment, though this is not always the case and such expressions may sometimes be part of wider anti–Middle Eastern sentiment without an exclusively antisemitic motive.

 

Again.  There will never be peace in the area.  The conflict is to generational

 

This is the philosophical discussion that i will only reply to once. It doesn’t matter what the “scientific” definition is. The real life definition of antisemitism is very clearly only anti Jewish.

[Sharpshooter]

10 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

I would suggest otherwise as I think he is far too close to the situation to look at things rationally. Anyone that sees things from a black and white perspective in this situation shouldn't be taken seriously.

I replied to the post because @RomanPer accused @Provost of antisemitism. My reply wasn't nearly as inflammatory as the post that I quoted so I am genuinely confused why you are quoting me for "personal incitement". I will cease my posting in this thread though.

Also, and please forgive me for spotlighting your particular post. 
 

I was using your post as a means to give a broader message to all Members in this thread. 
 

Again, sincerest apologies if you believe you were being spotlighted. 
 

I will on many occasions reply to a Member to give a broader message to the Membership. 
 

Cheers. 
 

 

4 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

This is the philosophical discussion that i will only reply to once. It doesn’t matter what the “scientific” definition is. The real life definition of antisemitism is very clearly only anti Jewish.

In the modern day vernacular, being an antisemite generally means one is against people of Jewish origins. 

 

This should be a known known. 

[RomanPer]

8 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

I would suggest otherwise as I think he is far too close to the situation to look at things rationally. Anyone that sees things from a black and white perspective in this situation shouldn't be taken seriously.

I replied to the post because @RomanPer accused @Provost of antisemitism. My reply wasn't nearly as inflammatory as the post that I quoted so I am genuinely confused why you are quoting me for "personal incitement". I will cease my posting in this thread though.

 

Go through all my replies in this topic and tell me again i see everything as “black and white”. Actually, instead of going through all of them - read the one that is currently singled as the most popular in this thread.

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The conflict is to generational

Loooong memories.

 

My Iranian father-in-law talks about that a lot. He is a wonderful dude in his 80's with so much wisdom and intelligence. He talks about the many layers of this onion. 

[RomanPer]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

Loooong memories.

 

My Iranian father-in-law talks about that a lot. He is a wonderful dude in his 80's with so much wisdom and intelligence. He talks about the many layers of this onion. 

 

Speaking of Iranians - there was a huge contingent of Iranians at the rally in support of Israel on Tuesday, with the old Iranian flags.

[bishopshodan]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

Speaking of Iranians - there was a huge contingent of Iranians at the rally in support of Israel on Tuesday, with the old Iranian flags.

 

I would love to sit in a room with my father-in law and you.

I bet I would learn a lot. You would find him great, he is like a walking history lesson and very open. 

 

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Speaking of Iranians - there was a huge contingent of Iranians at the rally in support of Israel on Tuesday, with the old Iranian flags.

Nationalism is a scourge on humanity. But, I digress. 

[Provost]

50 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

There are plenty of people in this thread that I didn’t ignore and have criticized Israel. Just ask @Ilunga, @Canuck Surfer, @Sharpshooter, etc. If you look at my own posts, I fully expect and support the notion that Netanyahu has to answer for his actions. The people i put on ignore are the ones who are not engaging in discussion but rather blame everything on Israel. In my books it is antisemitism. And I’m not going into philosophical discussion what is and what isn’t antisemitism. Being Jewish who was born and raised in former Soviet Union, i know what it is extremely well. Saying “Israel shouldn’t be there in the first place”, “Hamas was a paper tiger and Israel purposely converted them into terrorists” is antisemitism.

I am not anti-semitic.  Certainly not if you define being Jewish as a cultural or national identity vs. purely a religious affiliation as you most certainly do.

I do think all religions are silly except when they cause harm to others because of their beliefs.  Someone posted that Jews have a special sacred right to the land because of their religious beliefs but Palestinians don't have a right to their land because because they don't have the same religious beliefs.

I said I am an atheist so can't agree with any logic that uses a magic book as their rationale.  Plain and simple.  My sky-God is more important than your sky-God is a poor argument in my books. 

I didn't call for the removal of Israel or anything even remotely of the sort.  I accept that the creation of Israel was an injustice to the Palestinians that were displaced.  Whether it was the lesser of evils at the time, whether it should or shouldn't have happened is an entirely irrelevent argument.  Same as when talking about us colonizing North America.  We are just left with trying to deal with the results in the best and most practical way possible.

If I accept your repeated premise that Hamas in Gaza are simply savage barbaric madmen with the only aim of murdering as many Jews as possible... then the response is why haven't they killed all the Jews yet?  Why have they not undertaken massive terrorist attacks repeatedly over the decades?


 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Sharpshooter
Borderline Incitement. Calling a partial Jew an antisemite is uncalled for.