Hamas attacking Israel

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

If the same people first showed any emotion about Saturday massacre. People on my ignore list started right away with the criticism of Israel. I have no time for such people.

You're absolutely not answering the question.

 

Do you believe that people who disagree with Israel's current policies regarding Palestine up to and including the illegal settlements and the creeping annexation and inevitable take over of all of former Palestine to be anti semetic.

 

yes or no?

 

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

I guess you missed the very important part of my message about people who criticize Israel for EVERYTHING.

Ok.  So how do you feel about the radio?  Chemistry?  Physics?  Solar panels?  Helicopters and gyro flight?  Artificial hearts? Electric light bulbs?  Parachutes?  

 

I ask because while I 100% agree with your position and the reasoning behind it.  You criticize Russia in all things and are staunchly and 100% (rightfully so) opposed to them.  By that token, could I not also say you can't use any of those or the spin off creations that came from them?

 

Taking a position of absolutes such as the statement you made I responded to here is ridiculous.  And before you respond out of emotion, this is just the mirror being held up to yourself right now nothing more so if you find it offensive think about why that makes you feel this way  

[Coconuts]

55 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

The reason why I think Israel won’t stay in Gaza is because that will lead to soldier deaths, which will not sit well with Jewish Moms. It’s one thing to die in war when defending the country and it’s quite different when just sitting in Gaza.

 

This is true, but pushing into territory and holding territory are two different things. Were the Palestinians in north Gaza not encouraged to move south or risk losing their lives? If the land is much more vacant than it was it'd be easier to hold as it's less populated, less populated also means it's harder for Hamas to blend in.

 

Now, you may very well be right and the IDF may simply withdraw, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't. Bodies aren't good for business but soldiers have always been pawns for the wealthy and powerful. 

[Coconuts]

Hadn't considered this, could very well add to the death totals.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/who-order-to-evacuate-north-gaza-potentially-a-death-sentence-for-hospitalized/

[Provost]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Taking a position of absolutes such as the statement you made I responded to here is ridiculous.  And before you respond out of emotion, this is just the mirror being held up to yourself right now nothing more so if you find it offensive think about why that makes you feel this way  

I have said previously in this thread that it is totally right and fair for him to be hurt and emotional due to the terrorist attack.  It is entirely understandable.  He has a right to be upset, you would have to be fairly psychotic not to be in his place.

 

I am not saying that to be dismissive or condescending.

 

When I see someone violently murdered who belongs to a group I relate to (and I have).  I feel exactly the same way.

 

I can also understand that I am not going to be a fair or barometer of good judgment in those instances.  No one should rely on my impartiality when I am not impartial.

 

That is why we have laws and independent neutral arbitrars. 
 

The laws in this case are pretty clear.  Indiscriminate mass killings of civilians as collective punishment is a war crime. Pretty much one of the worst…. Forced dispossession of masses of civilians from their homes is a war crime.  Intentional starving and depriving millions of people of water and basic necessities for life is a war crime.

 

 

[RomanPer]

27 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

You're absolutely not answering the question.

 

Do you believe that people who disagree with Israel's current policies regarding Palestine up to and including the illegal settlements and the creeping annexation and inevitable take over of all of former Palestine to be anti semetic.

 

yes or no?

 

Ok.  So how do you feel about the radio?  Chemistry?  Physics?  Solar panels?  Helicopters and gyro flight?  Artificial hearts? Electric light bulbs?  Parachutes?  

 

I ask because while I 100% agree with your position and the reasoning behind it.  You criticize Russia in all things and are staunchly and 100% (rightfully so) opposed to them.  By that token, could I not also say you can't use any of those or the spin off creations that came from them?

 

Taking a position of absolutes such as the statement you made I responded to here is ridiculous.  And before you respond out of emotion, this is just the mirror being held up to yourself right now nothing more so if you find it offensive think about why that makes you feel this way  

I believe someone here accused me about seeing everything as “black and white”. You want me to give an answer “yes or no” on a question that doesn’t have one of these answers unconditionally. Just because you want it, I can’t do that. I answered the best the way I can, take it or leave it.

 

As for the second part - you are being argumentative. Every single thing you listed that had Russian roots all 100+ years old. Russia of today doesn’t benefit financially from me using any of the byproducts of these inventions. And I completely cut any product produced in Russia starting in 2014. What I’m talking is about things being produced right now in a country that is supposedly guilty of every possible sin in the world. By that logic, by using these Israeli inventions, you are contributing to strengthen Israeli armed forces (via taxes paid by these corporations in Israel).

[Ilunga]

6 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

There are plenty of people in this thread that I didn’t ignore and have criticized Israel. Just ask @Ilunga, @Canuck Surfer, @Sharpshooter, etc. If you look at my own posts, I fully expect and support the notion that Netanyahu has to answer for his actions. The people i put on ignore are the ones who are not engaging in discussion but rather blame everything on Israel. In my books it is antisemitism. And I’m not going into philosophical discussion what is and what isn’t antisemitism. Being Jewish who was born and raised in former Soviet Union, i know what it is extremely well. Saying “Israel shouldn’t be there in the first place”, “Hamas was a paper tiger and Israel purposely converted them into terrorists” is antisemitism.

 

While I have been critical of Isreals actions since the formation of the state of Israel I want to publicly support Romans comments in regards to Isreals right to exist.

 

Also the militant wing of Hamas has committed what we now describe as acts of terror since their formation. 

 

There is no justification for killing innocent women and children anywhere on this planet.

 

As I have mentioned I do have ties to this conflict.

 

[JangoFett]

The problem these days is people have differing opinions than what is peddled in the media and by users like Roman and anything that goes against that is frowned upon. Talk about a one sided dialogue and showing moral superiority. 
 

for example they are supporting genocide

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by JangoFett

[Sharpshooter]

8 minutes ago, JangoFett said:

The problem these days is people have differing opinions than what is peddled in the media and by users like Roman and anything that goes against that is frowned upon. Talk about a one sided dialogue and showing moral superiority. 
 

for example they are supporting genocide

 

 

There’s plenty of discussion from both sides here so your accusation of a one sided argument is incorrect. 

[CBH1926]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Post the link to your sources.  Then do the same for Israel.

 

How many of those were in Gaza during the occupation and not terrorist attacks at all?  The two sides were in open armed conflict at the time.

 

How many in the last 20 years since the occupation of Gaza ended?

 

It seems like you might be the one being disingenuous.  “Recent attacks” being defined as a specific period from between 20-30 years ago during a period of open armed conflict in Gaza itself? Why pick numbers from way back then when there is recent information available?  

 

I will help you be a little less disingenuous as this seems above your head.

 

Here are UN reports of fatalities related to the conflict.  It does not differentiate between terrorist attacks and other fatalities.  It also includes ALL deaths and not by Hamas, the vast bulk of these are in the West Bank between Israeli soldiers and armed settlers and Palestinians.  Terrorist attacked deaths from Hamas is a tiny subset of these numbers.   It also excludes Palestinian deaths inside Gaza and non-occupied territory.  The numbers are pretty clear and compelling.

 

Even taking what you said at face value and being true (it isn’t), it literally still makes my exact point.  
 

If Hamas had the capability to undertake mass terror attacks why didn’t they.  300 total deaths a decade during an open armed conflict involving millions of people, including fights between soldiers and not terrorist attacks is minuscule.  That is a little more than two a month.  Why haven’t they been killing 1500 a day, or a week, or a month, or a year, or a decade?  They did that last week.

 

A reputed 40,000 savage armed monsters with the sole aim of eradicating Israel manage to kill 2 of them a month?  Do the math.  It takes a group of 1,300 bloodthirsty animal terrorists a year of planning to get together to kill one Israeli?

 

That isn’t a paper tiger to you?  That is using your own inflated numbers, not the actual ones that dan be easily found which are a tiny fraction of that.

 

 

 

My numbers are accurate, I am not doing your work, it’s all there on the internet for you. I do like how you use words like minuscule in terms of deaths. Did you oversleep suicide bombers in the 90s, Hamas terrorists blowing up buses, restaurants, cafes? It’s morbid to say the least, but you can go on and believe whatever you like.
 

You posted some nonsense about Hamas being a fake terrorist organization. I posted numbers to refute your opinion, facts vs. opinion. I never said that Palestinians suffered less than Israelis, I just took exception to your ramblings that are not based in facts. I don’t think it’s that hard to understand.

Edited October 15, 2023 by CBH1926

[Playoff Beered]

18 minutes ago, JangoFett said:

The problem these days is people have differing opinions than what is peddled in the media and by users like Roman and anything that goes against that is frowned upon. Talk about a one sided dialogue and showing moral superiority. 
 

for example they are supporting genocide

 

 

You can find endless vid's of Muslims saying the same shit, and you know that.

So why post something twice that's so offensive to one side? It doesn't really help, does it?

Edited October 15, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[RomanPer]

14 minutes ago, JangoFett said:

The problem these days is people have differing opinions than what is peddled in the media and by users like Roman and anything that goes against that is frowned upon. Talk about a one sided dialogue and showing moral superiority. 
 

for example they are supporting genocide

 

 

I can post here plenty of individual opinions of the other side with just as bad and worse takes. What’s your point? That there are psychos on the Israeli side? Never claimed there are none.

[JangoFett]

The mainstream narrative is that Israel doesn’t have blood on their hands, some are perpetuating that lie. 

[Ilunga]

6 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

Something we can all agree on. Well said. 
 

We may be brothers from another mother/motherland, but we are all Canucks. 
 

Well, except for @Sabrefan1 

 

6 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

I'm only part Canuck.  The rest of me is as sharp as a Sabre!

 

6 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

Canucks and Sabres supporters are simply long distance cousins. 

 

Our teams were born into this NHL world together. 
 

 

 

 

I will, as always take this chance to remind everyone, we are all brothers and sisters under the sun  

 

 

 

 

[Provost]

23 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

My numbers are accurate, I am not doing your work, it’s all there on the internet for you. I do like how you use words like minuscule in terms of deaths. Did you oversleep suicide bombers in the 90s, Hamas terrorists blowing up buses, restaurants, cafes? It’s morbid to say the least, but you can go on and believe whatever you like.
 

You posted some nonsense about Hamas being a fake terrorist organization. I posted numbers to refute your opinion, facts vs. opinion. I never said that Palestinians suffered less than Israelis, I just took exception to your ramblings that are not based in facts. I don’t think it’s that hard to understand.

No, you made a claim and refused to back it up with any sources at all. 
 

I refuted it and included graphs that actually cite the URLs that you can go and see yourself.

 

You have also refused to answer the basic questions I have posed.  
 

Why haven’t 40,000 bloodthirsty terrorists in Hamas been killing hundreds or thousands of Jews a day for the last couple of decades or more?  

 

Why do you have to reach back 30 years for examples of terrorist attacks?

 

 

[Playoff Beered]

21 minutes ago, JangoFett said:

The mainstream narrative is that Israel doesn’t have blood on their hands, some are perpetuating that lie. 

 

Completely disagree, I see multiple sides of this very well represented.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Satchmo]

I swear this thread is like a Basketball Forum where the membership is 40% Knicks fans, 40% Lakers fans, and the remainder is split across the rest of the league.

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

I swear this thread is like a Basketball Forum where the membership is 40% Knicks fans, 40% Lakers fans, and the remainder is split across the rest of the league.

I think the overwhelming majority here don’t want to see civilians become casualties in either Israel or Palestine.

 

In many ways, they’re on the same team. 
 

 

[JangoFett]

2 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Completely disagree, I see both sides of this very well represented.

Is it well represented when the slogan “we stand with Israel” is the only proclamation made across the board for example in tonight’s oilers game? When Israel has committed atrocities too ?

[CBH1926]

25 minutes ago, Provost said:

No, you made a claim and refused to back it up with any sources at all. 
 

I refuted it and included graphs that actually cite the URLs that you can go and see yourself.

 

You have also refused to answer the basic questions I have posed.  
 

Why haven’t 40,000 bloodthirsty terrorists in Hamas been killing hundreds or thousands of Jews a day for the last couple of decades or more?  

 

Why do you have to reach back 30 years for examples of terrorist attacks?

 

 

It’s not a claim, are you denying that these attacks happened? Yes or no. Because according to you they have only managed to kill couple of Jews here and there. I never called them bloodthirsty you did.

According to you they are not even real terrorist group.

 

I did look at your charts, but I never claimed that number of Jews killed is higher than number of Palestinians. Everyone who hasn’t been asleep knows that. My problem with you is that you are minimizing crimes that Hamas committed. How about last weeks deadly massacre, is that recent enough for you?

Edited October 15, 2023 by CBH1926

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

I think the overwhelming majority here don’t want to see civilians become casualties in either Israel or Palestine.

 

In many ways, they’re on the same team. 
 

 

It's was just a lead in.  I've got more coming.

 

Peace.

[Playoff Beered]

1 minute ago, JangoFett said:

Is it well represented when the slogan “we stand with Israel” is the only proclamation made across the board for example in tonight’s oilers game? When Israel has committed atrocities too ?

 

Ah, I see, you're talking about a that. I meant across media in general, like twitter, news stations, reddit etc.

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, Satchmo said:

It's was just a lead in.  I've got more coming.

 

Peace.

I wait with bated breath. 

[JangoFett]

Poor innocent Israel killing innocent civilians  

 

[Playoff Beered]

5 minutes ago, JangoFett said:

Poor innocent Israel killing innocent civilians  

 

You're being very one sided in your posts. Isn't that what you were just kind of lamenting?

Edited October 15, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[JangoFett]

4 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

You're being very one sided in your posts. Isn't that what you were just kind of lamenting?

The thing is most of the narrative in support of Israeli  shows zero appreciation for the suffering of the Palestinians. It’s like they don’t even exist. Moral superiority displayed has caused this whole mess. Most Supporters of Israel have zero ability to be empathetic to the civilian Palestinians.