Playoff Beered Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 17 minutes ago, JangoFett said: The thing is most of the narrative in support of Israeli shows zero appreciation for the suffering of the Palestinians. It’s like they don’t even exist. Moral superiority displayed has caused this whole mess. Most Supporters of Israel have zero ability to be empathetic to the civilian Palestinians. From what I've seen that goes both ways. Welcome to ME politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 I do NOT support racism , oppression , occupation, or Apartheid. I support Israel's right to exist but not Israel current leadership or policies. I believe all humans are equal and all people have the basic human right of freedom. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 36 minutes ago, JangoFett said: The thing is most of the narrative in support of Israeli shows zero appreciation for the suffering of the Palestinians. It’s like they don’t even exist. Moral superiority displayed has caused this whole mess. Most Supporters of Israel have zero ability to be empathetic to the civilian Palestinians. Why do you think Roman got a bit upset and was banned ? It was because there were many posters, myself included supporting the Palestinian people right from the start of this thread. In fact I would say the majority of posters fully support the Palestinian people. Tell me, do you have a detailed knowledge of this conflict going back to the Balfour declaration ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JangoFett Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 I do, or I wouldn’t be weighing in. I have no horse in the race, so I studied it from multiple perspectives to see how things have developed to this point. Britain’s duplicitous dealings to divide up the spoils of war I and their imperial mindset to divide up the land to benefit their own ambitions has created this terrible rift. Encroaching onto palestinien lands to overtake someone else’s ancestral lands to the degree we have seen from the beginning to now is justifiable someohow cause they’re Jewish? 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: Why do you think Roman got a bit upset and was banned ? It was because there were many posters, myself included supporting the Palestinian people right from the start of this thread. In fact I would say the majority of posters fully support the Palestinian people. Tell me, do you have a detailed knowledge of this conflict going back to the Balfour declaration ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, CBH1926 said: It’s not a claim, are you denying that these attacks happened? Yes or no. Because according to you they have only managed to kill couple of Jews here and there. I never called them bloodthirsty you did. According to you they are not even real terrorist group. I did look at your charts, but I never claimed that number of Jews killed is higher than number of Palestinians. Everyone who hasn’t been asleep knows that. My problem with you is that you are minimizing crimes that Hamas committed. How about last weeks deadly massacre, is that recent enough for you? You keep moving goalposts and claiming things I didn’t say. You also continue to refuse to answer the questions I asked. My post you keep referring to was about how different last week’s attack from anything Hamas has done in both scope and tactics and why last week took the Israeli government and IDF completely by surprise. “My” charts aren’t mine I didn’t make them up, they are from the UN. They show Israeli deaths before last week have been low in this conflict and almost all of them are in the West Bank and are as a result of clashes over expanded settlements not terror attacks, and not Hamas. That is just fact. It isn’t minimizing Hamas previous crimes, it is not grossly exaggerating them…. And it was a response to a question about how it was possible that Israel didn’t take Hamas seriously and didn’t stop the attack. Edited October 15, 2023 by Provost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Air strikes in Syrian airport from Israel. Tensions rising in northern border with Lebanon/Hezbolla with troops amassing on both sides. Iran making threats if Israel doesn’t stop. US moving another aircraft carrier to the Mediterranean. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 31 minutes ago, JangoFett said: I do, or I wouldn’t be weighing in. I have no horse in the race, so I studied it from multiple perspectives to see how things have developed to this point. Britain’s duplicitous dealings to divide up the spoils of war I and their imperial mindset to divide up the land to benefit their own ambitions has created this terrible rift. Encroaching onto palestinien lands to overtake someone else’s ancestral lands to the degree we have seen from the beginning to now is justifiable someohow cause they’re Jewish? Can you quote a poster that has stated that Isreals illegal settlements are justifiable. Way back in the thread Roman himself said he did not agree with them. Most posters have condemned them. As for your claim about the British and their imperial mindset, that is best reflected in the Sykes - Picot agreement. The French and the British with the assent of the Russians and Italians divided up what is now known as Syria,Libya, Iraq and Palestine/ Isreal into areas to be administered by the French and British. These issues have dealt with in this thread. I have posted articles in which prominent Isrealis including Ex PM's and an ex Mossad chief state that Isreal is practising arpartheid. The Isreali human rights organisation B'tselem states the same thing. Taking all this into consideration, do you believe that the attack and brutal acts by Hamas last weekend were justified ? I can tell you what I know, there is no justification for killing women and children, ever. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JangoFett Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Can you quote a poster that has stated that Isreals illegal settlements are justifiable. Way back in the thread Roman himself said he did not agree with them. Most posters have condemned them. As for your claim about the British and their imperial mindset, that is best reflected in the Sykes - Picot agreement. The French and the British with the assent of the Russians and Italians divided up what is now known as Syria,Libya, Iraq and Palestine/ Isreal into areas to be administered by the French and British. These issues have dealt with in this thread. I have posted articles in which prominent Isrealis including Ex PM's and an ex Mossad chief state that Isreal is practising arpartheid. The Isreali human rights organisation B'tselem states the same thing. Taking all this into consideration, do you believe that the attack and brutal acts by Hamas last weekend were justified ? I can tell you what I know, there is no justification for killing women and children, ever. Obviously not justified, how can you even ask that. Yet you do ask such a bizarre question knowing the innocent killings Israel has been doing all along. Is that justified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 37 minutes ago, JangoFett said: Obviously not justified, how can you even ask that. Yet you do ask such a bizarre question knowing the innocent killings Israel has been doing all along. Is that justified? I have addressed this fact. Two wrongs do not make a right. I am not going to repeat myself except to say if you really want to know my feelings, check my post that contains the short film, thou shalt not kill. Read the article, watch the film and take note of my comment at the end of my post, if you are really interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JangoFett Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I have addressed this fact. Two wrongs do not make a right. I am not going to repeat myself except to say if you really want to know my feelings, check my post that contains the short film, thou shalt not kill. Read the article, watch the film and take note of my comment at the end of my post, if you are really interested. I did before actually It’s the fact that the conversation always starts with “do you think it’s justified for the hamas killings?” And never the other way around. Just goes to show you how people have it framed in their mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, JangoFett said: I did before actually It’s the fact that the conversation always starts with “do you think it’s justified for the hamas killings?” And never the other way around. Just goes to show you how people have it framed in their mind. Then you know my feelings. There should be more people like Hussain Dawabshe in not just Palestine/ Israel, but the world. Could I be that sort of person, I just fervently hope I am never put a similar position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 6 hours ago, Warhippy said: You're absolutely not answering the question. Hippy; these are probe leading queries you're putting up. Like a detective. Designed to trap someone in to targeted answers. Give the guy a week or three; what went down last weekend was terrible. People are gunna be emotional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 3 hours ago, JangoFett said: Is that justified? There is lots of guilt on both sides of this conflict. Your also asking a probe leading question. Is the death of grandfathers, kids, parents in S Israel last week justified? Lots of guilt, that amongst the most egregious. Revenge killing should not be what is acceptable for either party. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Sparkle Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) i hate western media. it's always "pick a side" i side with the children. saw a heartbreaking video on twitter where a cat jumped on a dead child, with the (i assume the parent holding them) and cuddled them Edited October 15, 2023 by Twilight Sparkle 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JangoFett Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: There is lots of guilt on both sides of this conflict. Your also asking a probe leading question. Is the death of grandfathers, kids, parents in S Israel last week justified? Lots of guilt, that amongst the most egregious. Revenge killing should not be what is acceptable for either party. I guess when Israel attacks Gaza constantly upto this conflict and there’s civilian death that’s just collateral damage? No one says what happened last week was justified but neither is the egregious deaths caused by Israeli attacks. Yet One side gets praised for it, gets glossed over or it’s a non issue. Edited October 15, 2023 by JangoFett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, JangoFett said: I guess when Israel attacks Gaza constantly upto this conflict and there’s civilian death that’s just collateral damage? No one says what happened last week was justified but neither is the egregious deaths caused by Israeli attacks. Yet One side gets praised for it, gets glossed over or it’s a non issue. Every news source is covering this, how can you say it's being glossed over? What's happening in Gaza is being reported literally everywhere and I haven't seen any media site praise anything. If what you're watching is praising any of this then you're consuming some biased weird YouTube or Tic Tok videos, and I recommend you stop watching that shit for your own peace of mind and sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, JangoFett said: I guess when Israel attacks Gaza constantly upto this conflict and there’s civilian death that’s just collateral damage? No one says what happened last week was justified but neither is the egregious deaths caused by Israeli attacks. Yet One side gets praised for it, gets glossed over or it’s a non issue. Thoughts on this video below? But specifically to answer your question you will find my own posts calling for accountability by Israel as a starting point; as the larger more powerful combatant. Example, rubber bullets not shooting to death 16 year old protestors slinging rocks. Moving settlers on, arrest those who try to claim occupied territory. Including removing from public office their 'defense minister' Yaov Gallant. Found guilty inciting hatred, reportedly also personally trying to claim occupied territory for profit. I get the outrage. Peace won't occur until both parties are accountable to reasonable rule of law. Hamas, 2knd, offering volunteers for a joint force, including Israel & neutrally agreed 3rd parties that provides security in occupied territory. Or similar, I don't know exactly what? Keep protestors peaceful! No rocks but at a bigger level arresting both illegal settlers, never mind their kids & RW sh!theads beating Palestinian farmers, killing their livestock. CRITICALLY arrest, if necessary confront those bringing rockets to launch. To answer your rhetoric? Keep allowing, promoting, recruiting anyone who can join a gang, if they have a kill badge for launching a rocket into Israeli civilian territory. ESPECIALLY from the rooftops in densely populated Gaza city. It fuels the RW extremists, just like they fuel Hamas. What sounds to you like 'justified,' is the streetfighting equivalent to spitting in Mike Tyson's face. Who's gunna get their ass whipped? Probably the punk spitting & all those he's hanging out with. And if someone pulls a gun, its usually a young mother trying to stop her brother, AKA collateral damage. She gets killed? Not Mike... FTR I also believe Mike Tyson should be in jail. Its an analogy, not personal. My point, why poke the bear? If you don't fear violence, be part of that volunteer crew that protects the occupied territory. For a case to be made it can safely be turned back over. Which I also fully support! These are ways that sides can commit to a reasonable rule of law... Peace won't happen till sides are accountable to, participate jointly in a rule of law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JangoFett Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 38 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: Thoughts on this video below? But specifically to answer your question you will find my own posts calling for accountability by Israel as a starting point; as the larger more powerful combatant. Example, rubber bullets not shooting to death 16 year old protestors slinging rocks. Moving settlers on, arrest those who try to claim occupied territory. Including removing from public office their 'defense minister' Yaov Gallant. Found guilty inciting hatred, reportedly also personally trying to claim occupied territory for profit. I get the outrage. Peace won't occur until both parties are accountable to reasonable rule of law. Hamas, 2knd, offering volunteers for a joint force, including Israel & neutrally agreed 3rd parties that provides security in occupied territory. Or similar, I don't know exactly what? Keep protestors peaceful! No rocks but at a bigger level arresting both illegal settlers, never mind their kids & RW sh!theads beating Palestinian farmers, killing their livestock. CRITICALLY arrest, if necessary confront those bringing rockets to launch. To answer your rhetoric? Keep allowing, promoting, recruiting anyone who can join a gang, if they have a kill badge for launching a rocket into Israeli civilian territory. ESPECIALLY from the rooftops in densely populated Gaza city. It fuels the RW extremists, just like they fuel Hamas. What sounds to you like 'justified,' is the streetfighting equivalent to spitting in Mike Tyson's face. Who's gunna get their ass whipped? Probably the punk spitting & all those he's hanging out with. And if someone pulls a gun, its usually a young mother trying to stop her brother, AKA collateral damage. She gets killed? Not Mike... FTR I also believe Mike Tyson should be in jail. Its an analogy, not personal. My point, why poke the bear? If you don't fear violence, be part of that volunteer crew that protects the occupied territory. For a case to be made it can safely be turned back over. Which I also fully support! These are ways that sides can commit to a reasonable rule of law... Peace won't happen till sides are accountable to, participate jointly in a rule of law. Your response is so full of idealistic none sense. The point is, that land did not belong to the Jewish populace but they took it through shady agreements, then they have proceeded to expand that initial territory to displace the people who lived their for generations and take FULL CONTROL OF BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS and essential needs of people they displaced into Gaza. Give your head a shake. It’s not an equivalent situation. All good, water, medicine is controlled. The Palestinian people are treated as prisoners on their own land. Did you know lentils are not allowed into Gaza? Lentils! How ludicrous is that. There’s simply no equivalency here. As hard as it is for you to grasp. What I see is modern day colonialism imposing extreme measures on innocent civilians. Unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 3 hours ago, JangoFett said: I guess when Israel attacks Gaza constantly guess when Israel attacks Gaza constantly upto upto this conflict and there’s civilian death that’s just collateral damage? No one says what happened last week was justified but neither is the egregious deaths caused by Israeli attacks. Yet One side gets praised for it, gets glossed over or it’s a non issue. 2 hours ago, Playoff Beered said: Every news source is covering this, how can you say it's being glossed over? What's happening in Gaza is being reported literally everywhere and I haven't seen any media site praise anything. If what you're watching is praising any of this then you're consuming some biased weird YouTube or Tic Tok videos, and I recommend you stop watching that shit for your own peace of mind and sanity. In my opinion, that's not what he's saying he's saying before this conflict and it seems quite clear and then you turned around and told him everybody is covering it. I think he's talking about before the conflict. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 This is getting nuts. The targeting and killing of innocent people. Israeli leadership is no better than Hamas. Absolutely crazy! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Being LGBTQI+ in Palestine means: 1) Up to 10 years in Prison for being Gay 2) Physical violence including beheadings, assault & torture 3) No civil laws protecting LGBT from discrimination or harassment 4) LGBT groups are banned from holding any events or parades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, bolt said: Edited October 15, 2023 by Ryan Strome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: This is getting nuts. The targeting and killing of innocent people. Israeli leadership is no better than Hamas. Absolutely crazy! Human shield casualties is equivalent to targeting day care centers and killing babies? I hope there is restraint soon but to compare the two as the same is very reaching. Edited October 15, 2023 by bolt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, bolt said: Human shield casualties is equivalent to targeting day care centers and killing babies? I hope there is restraint soon but to compare the two as the same is very reaching. I'm not going down this road guy. Israel has advanced weapons and first world technology. Palestine has dead kids and women at a staggering number. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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