Hamas attacking Israel

[bishopshodan]

3 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

 

According to you Hamas was invented , impotent paper tiger, not particularly violent, with bulk of their force being kids throwing rocks. Is that what your argument is?

 

It's so messy.

 

I have been reading about this lately.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/10/13/hamas-gaza-israel-saudi-normalization-deal/

Shumsky cites a Jerusalem Post report that at a Likud party meeting in 2019, Netanyahu made clear that he supported the money the Qatari government was sending to Hamas. That way, the prime minister is reported to have said, Israel would foil the establishment of a Palestinian state. 

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am genuinely not sure what you mean by "helps"...helps what exactly in the context of this topic?

It "helps" keep the singular view of side A is bad because of reason X when side B is equally as guilty but is ignored because side A is so much worse.

 

Understanding it's actually a global issue and not just something people can use as a talking point to reinforce a bias is incredibly beneficial 

[Bob Long]

Just now, Warhippy said:

See above response.

 

Then understand the following

 

The movement of people and goods — including food and water — has been controlled under an Israeli blockade since 2007. Israel withdrew its military forces from the territory under international pressure in 2005 but has said it needed to maintain the blockade to protect Israelis from Hamas

 

 

 

Well I think we can guess military forces will be back for the foreseeable future.

 

Imo Israel has taken a relatively measured approach so far, if they wanted to they could be doing far worse things right now. 

 

Once they move in ground forces and seize full control I have no doubt the humanitarian aid will flow. It will probably be at that point by this time next week.

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

See above response.

 

Then understand the following

 

The movement of people and goods — including food and water — has been controlled under an Israeli blockade since 2007. Israel withdrew its military forces from the territory under international pressure in 2005 but has said it needed to maintain the blockade to protect Israelis from Hamas

 

 

It appears that Egypt may allow food and aid to flow through its border with Gaza. You know, that other arab nation with a border with Gaza. I wonder how much the west is paying Egypt to do this 'humanitarian' act. 

[Warhippy]

Humanitarian organizations on Tuesday called for international aid for Gaza as Israel imposes a further blockade on the impoverished territory. While experts condemned the Hamas attacks on Israelis as "abhorrent," they also warned that a complete siege on the territory will lead to disastrous shortages of food, water and electricity for millions of civilians.

 

Representatives from the United Nations to refugee councils have said the latest Israeli siege would be another example of international law being broken by those on both sides of the conflict, which has left hundreds dead and thousands more injured since Saturday.

 

"It's going to affect everything," Michael Lynk, former United Nations special rapporteur for the situation of human rights and the Palestinian territory, said of a total blockade.

 

The movement of people and goods — including food and water — has been controlled under an Israeli blockade since 2007. Israel withdrew its military forces from the territory under international pressure in 2005 but has said it needed to maintain the blockade to protect Israelis from Hamas.

 

"Israel controls everything that goes in and out of the Gaza Strip," said Lynk, who visited Gaza periodically while he worked for the UN in Jerusalem.

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It "helps" keep the singular view of side A is bad because of reason X when side B is equally as guilty but is ignored because side A is so much worse.

 

Understanding it's actually a global issue and not just something people can use as a talking point to reinforce a bias is incredibly beneficial 

Well, lets put it in perspective: if you have a mustache and S a D in Gaza you will be killed. Same in Syria and Iran.

In Israel if you are a gay man you are free to go about your business. 

 

Since you brought it up.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

It appears that Egypt may allow food and aid to flow through its border with Gaza. You know, that other arab nation with a border with Gaza. I wonder how much the west is paying Egypt to do this 'humanitarian' act. 

That border is/was closed.  This was already discussed here and the reasons why.

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Well, lets put it in perspective: if you have a mustache and S a D in Gaza you will be killed. Same in Syria and Iran.

In Israel if you are a gay man you are free to go about your business. 

 

Since you brought it up.

Now you're being facetious and that's fine.

 

But here's some major incidents of growing violence against LGBTQ members in Israel and the beliefs of the Hasidic sect, one of the controlling powers in Israeli government and a huge issue when religion controls major aspects of your daily life.

 

But sure.  Because the sentiment is there only it's ok?  Or what?

 

Violence is violence mate.  You don't get to share hate different colours based on personal bias.

 

Both sides are guilty period.  I know you'll argue this and whatever, that's what you have to do to justify your position.  But hate.  Is.  Hate.

 

https://www.thepinknews.com/2016/11/18/rabbi-shlomo-amar-gay-death-penalty/

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-07/ty-article/.premium/influential-rabbi-calls-on-followers-to-forget-politeness-and-fight-lgbtq-community/00000189-cf1a-ddac-a3cd-ef7bad7e0000

 

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/society/1680074226-israel-sharp-increase-in-cases-of-violence-hatred-against-lgbtq

 

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-734812

[Provost]

52 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

 

According to you Hamas was invented , impotent paper tiger, not particularly violent, with bulk of their force being kids throwing rocks. Is that what your argument is? Go ahead and tell us again how you are not minimizing their crimes.

Afraid to quote the entire post I see… for pretty good reason I guess as it negates your assertions.

 

You continue to duck and weave and avoid any intellectual honesty.

 

Public facing Israeli government policy was that Hamas was an existential threat to Israelis.  That Israeli citizens needed to vote in increasingly right wing parties, increase settlements, and increasingly draconian laws against Arabs.  It worked, the current Israeli government ranges from far right extremists to outright White Power racists who publicly espouse the murder of Palestinians and burning their villages to eradicate them.

 

It is well reported and known that internally, the Netenyahu government considered Hamas an “asset” and  instituted policies to support and actually strengthen Hamas as it was too weak and impotent.  They wanted it strong enough to counter the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and remove any possibility of Palestinian statehood.

Do you purposefully strengthen a terrorist group you consider an existential threat to your existence?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Provost

[Optimist Prime]

12 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Now you're being facetious and that's fine.

 

But here's some major incidents of growing violence against LGBTQ members in Israel and the beliefs of the Hasidic sect, one of the controlling powers in Israeli government and a huge issue when religion controls major aspects of your daily life.

 

But sure.  Because the sentiment is there only it's ok?  Or what?

 

Violence is violence mate.  You don't get to share hate different colours based on personal bias.

 

Both sides are guilty period.  I know you'll argue this and whatever, that's what you have to do to justify your position.  But hate.  Is.  Hate.

 

https://www.thepinknews.com/2016/11/18/rabbi-shlomo-amar-gay-death-penalty/

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-07/ty-article/.premium/influential-rabbi-calls-on-followers-to-forget-politeness-and-fight-lgbtq-community/00000189-cf1a-ddac-a3cd-ef7bad7e0000

 

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/society/1680074226-israel-sharp-increase-in-cases-of-violence-hatred-against-lgbtq

 

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-734812

You can rest assured that I have no love of any religious people anywhere on earth, regardless of their delusions. 

It is not facetious to point out that Gay men, for instance, in Israel are free to go about their business, while gay men in Gaza, Syria, Iran and some other arab nations are killed as a governing policy.

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

No answer is still an answer.

 

Have a good day Roman.

 

I gave you an answer. It’s just not an answer that you want or the one that satisfies your narrative. In any case, it’s entirely on you. You can try and twist my words any way you want. Won’t be the first time for the other side.

[RomanPer]

59 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Tell me.

 

How does the Hasidic sect as the balance in Israel view the LGBTQ community?

 

At the very least, they don’t throw them off the roof tops. And their percentage within Israel is extremely low.

[RomanPer]

51 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

But you've already given your answer.  And that's ok.  That's who you are and what you believe.

 

Just try not to apply that mindset of everyone who is not with me is an enemy or a bad guy to every day life. 

 

There's already enough of that going on

 

Where did this come from? When did I say this? This is exactly what i wrote above - you are putting words in my mouth.

[Junkyard Dog]

Egypt facing immense pressure to open border internationally. 
 

US has stated Hamas has been taking preventive actions towards people evacuating. 
 

Israel has hit military infrastructure in Lebanon according to IDF. 
 

Death for Israel reaches 1400 in Gaza pasts 2450. Many more injured. 
 

The amount of displaced people in Gaza estimated to be at around 1 million. 
 

Israel confirms that 126 people were taken hostage. 
 

Packed hospitals in Gaza at immense risk. 
 

US expanding military presence around Israel. Warn of war expanding beyond Gaza/Israel. 

[RomanPer]

27 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Now you're being facetious and that's fine.

 

But here's some major incidents of growing violence against LGBTQ members in Israel and the beliefs of the Hasidic sect, one of the controlling powers in Israeli government and a huge issue when religion controls major aspects of your daily life.

 

But sure.  Because the sentiment is there only it's ok?  Or what?

 

Violence is violence mate.  You don't get to share hate different colours based on personal bias.

 

Both sides are guilty period.  I know you'll argue this and whatever, that's what you have to do to justify your position.  But hate.  Is.  Hate.

 

https://www.thepinknews.com/2016/11/18/rabbi-shlomo-amar-gay-death-penalty/

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-07/ty-article/.premium/influential-rabbi-calls-on-followers-to-forget-politeness-and-fight-lgbtq-community/00000189-cf1a-ddac-a3cd-ef7bad7e0000

 

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/society/1680074226-israel-sharp-increase-in-cases-of-violence-hatred-against-lgbtq

 

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-734812

 

Dude, just stop. Tel Aviv has gay community comparable in size to Vancouver gay community. They are not persecuted by the government. There are gay Knesset members. In Gaza gays hide, because if they are found, they will be killed. How can you compare that to a few bigots that exist in every society. Are you telling me there are no idiots in Canada that are against LGBTQ?

[Playoff Beered]

47 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Now you're being facetious and that's fine.

 

But here's some major incidents of growing violence against LGBTQ members in Israel and the beliefs of the Hasidic sect, one of the controlling powers in Israeli government and a huge issue when religion controls major aspects of your daily life.

 

But sure.  Because the sentiment is there only it's ok?  Or what?

 

Violence is violence mate.  You don't get to share hate different colours based on personal bias.

 

Both sides are guilty period.  I know you'll argue this and whatever, that's what you have to do to justify your position.  But hate.  Is.  Hate.

 

https://www.thepinknews.com/2016/11/18/rabbi-shlomo-amar-gay-death-penalty/

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-07/ty-article/.premium/influential-rabbi-calls-on-followers-to-forget-politeness-and-fight-lgbtq-community/00000189-cf1a-ddac-a3cd-ef7bad7e0000

 

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/society/1680074226-israel-sharp-increase-in-cases-of-violence-hatred-against-lgbtq

 

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-734812

 

Is Tel Aviv the gay capital of the world? 

Tel Aviv Pride is among the biggest annual pride events in the world and as of 2019, it is the biggest in Asia.

 

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/article-731595

 

WHY TEL AVIV IS THE ULTIMATE LGBTQ TRAVEL DESTINATION

https://www.touristisrael.com/why-tel-aviv-is-the-ultimate-lgbtq-travel-destination/26062/

Edited October 15, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Optimist Prime]

I suspect that it may be a goal of the IDF now to destroy the tunnels under Gaza as well as any Hamas infrastructure above the surface in Gaza. It is likely that Gaza will be simply be brought to rubble and bulldozed out of existence north of the Wadi.

[CBH1926]

22 minutes ago, Provost said:

Afraid to quote the entire post I see… for pretty good reason I guess as it negates your assertions.

 

You continue to duck and weave and avoid any intellectual honesty.

 

Public facing Israeli government policy was that Hamas was an existential threat to Israelis.  That Israeli citizens needed to vote in increasingly right wing parties, increase settlements, and increasingly draconian laws against Arabs.  It worked, the current Israeli government ranges from far right extremists to outright White Power racists who publicly espouse the murder of Palestinians and burning their villages to eradicate them.

 

It is well reported and known that internally, the Netenyahu government instituted policies to support and actually strengthen Hamas as a tool to counter the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and remove any possibility of Palestinian statehood.

 

 

 

 

You are posting stuff about Hamas terrorist abilities just to bolster your argument. Find one credible source that agrees with your assertions that they are mainly rock throwing kids, impotent, paper tiger that no one should be afraid of.

 

Even your inane assertion that “if Hamas was that bad those kids wouldn’t be at a rave party so close to them” You think life stops just because of war or terrorism threat? I guess I shouldn’t tell you about attending one of my friends piano concert in a place where you could literally see the trenches huh?

[CBH1926]

21 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

At the very least, they don’t throw them off the roof tops. And their percentage within Israel is extremely low.

Once we start comparing gay rights in Israel, U.S etc. with those “rights” in Islamic world, I feel like the discussion is turning to fantasy.

[Junkyard Dog]

I am not sure what the LGBTQ community has to do with this conflict. 
 

Hamas’ and the Israel government’s history and actions towards each other are not in regards of the LGBTQ community. 
 

Treatment of LGBTQ peoples in these areas are a separate issue. 
 

IMO this derails the topic at hand. 

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

You are posting stuff about Hamas terrorist abilities just to bolster your argument. Find one credible source that agrees with your assertions that they are mainly rock throwing kids, impotent, paper tiger that no one should be afraid of.

 

Even your inane assertion that “if Hamas was that bad those kids wouldn’t be at a rave party so close to them” You think life stops just because of war or terrorism threat? I guess I shouldn’t tell you about attending one of my friends piano concert in a place where you could literally see the trenches huh?

Well the actual lack of attacks until last week is a pretty solid indicator, along with the independently verified numbers I cited.

 

Vs.  You just making trite random comments and personal attacks with no sources.

 

Here is yet another one for you to ignore and avoid.  Literally from Israeli media.

 

You don’t prop up an existential threat to your existence just to further your own expansion agenda on your other borders.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

[Provost]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

I am not sure what the LGBTQ community has to do with this conflict. 
 

Hamas’ and the Israel government’s history and actions towards each other are not in regards of the LGBTQ community. 
 

Treatment of LGBTQ peoples in these areas are a separate issue. 
 

IMO this derails the topic at hand. 

Yep, show me the quotes where the Israeli government is invading Gaza to support gay rights?

 

Show me how they are condemning Saudi Arabia and refusing to normalize relations with them because of their human rights issues and treatment of LGBTQ2S+ population.

[CBH1926]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

Well the actual lack of attacks until last week is a pretty solid indicator, along with the independently verified numbers I cited.

 

Vs.  You just making trite random comments and personal attacks with no sources.

 

Here is yet another one for you to ignore and avoid.  Literally from Israeli media.

 

You don’t prop up an existential threat to your existence just to further your own expansion agenda on your other borders.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

Did you even read this article that you posted? 

You are the one arguing that a terrorist group that just killed hundreds of people is impotent. I posted that Hamas has committed many terrorist attacks in the past killing hundreds of civilians. Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Or since it happened while back still doesn’t change the fact that it did happen.

[RomanPer]

9 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Once we start comparing gay rights in Israel, U.S etc. with those “rights” in Islamic world, I feel like the discussion is turning to fantasy.

 

You can always count on @Warhippy to find reference to some idiot rabbi within Israel who represents nothing more than his own opinion and portray it as “Israel policy”.

[RomanPer]

8 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I am not sure what the LGBTQ community has to do with this conflict. 
 

Hamas’ and the Israel government’s history and actions towards each other are not in regards of the LGBTQ community. 
 

Treatment of LGBTQ peoples in these areas are a separate issue. 
 

IMO this derails the topic at hand. 

 

The reason it started is the fact that some members of LGBTQ community in the West is coming out in support of Hamas and some of us pointing out that it’s pretty oxymoronic.