Hamas attacking Israel

[Playoff Beered]

12 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

One thing I don't understand.  

 

These are very public figures.  Israel is no slouch at all int he intelligence department and has US funding and assistance.  They have no fear of making things happen in other nations.

Why do they let these "leaders" live at all?

 

Maybe they think that it would just turn them into martyrs?

Edited October 15, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Provost]

25 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Did you even read this article that you posted? 

You are the one arguing that a terrorist group that just killed hundreds of people is impotent. I posted that Hamas has committed many terrorist attacks in the past killing hundreds of civilians. Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Or since it happened while back still doesn’t change the fact that it did happen.

I did not say that Hamas is impotent.  I said it WAS, and that is why the Israeli government and Israelis in general ignored them and the attack last week was successful even with the relatively pitiful force Hamas was able to muster.

Not something I made up, something reported regularly even in Israeli media.  Long before this attack and since it.  There will be a reckoning for those stupid Israeli government policies of intentionally strengthening Hamas once things settle down into whatever future is in store.

 

You are entirely uninterested in anything that doesn’t fit your narrative.  You refuse to cite any sources for any of your claims (I know why, you think you would look dumb if the one-sided “source” organization you used was shared).

 

If you can’t get past the “brown people bad, white people good” worldview you hold… then that is on you.

 

Folks like you suffer from what are called fundamental attribution errors.  You forgive Israeli murdering masses of civilians by saying they are a result of external situational forces… but condemn Palestinians who kill Israelis because they are inherently evil and savages.

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

why does Israel not assassinate and murder people they disagree with? 

is that your question? seriously?

I worry for folks you may decide you disagree with enough.

Wait, no no now I am actually curious.

 

You don't think they do?  They have?  Or that they conduct these exact operations on a regular basis against other nations?  Gods man, they literally have attacked other nations over the past few days with airstrikes which is against just about every possible law the UN has.

 

This is without even once mentioning the program over decades of hunting down actual nazis across the globe and bringing them to trial or seeing them have accidents

 

They absolutely know who and where these people are and one has to wonder why they don't just chop the head off of the snake

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

every nation in this planet has people who treat marginalized members of society like trash

Agreed. Wholeheartedly agreed.

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Good question. Some reasons that comes to mind are:

 

- mutually assured targeting and destruction of civilian leadership

 

- Derailing peace talks/treaties by striking out against Hamas leadership in sovereign countries(Qatar as an example). 
 

- Israel doesn’t outright assassinate civilian leaders. (They could have with Arafat and a whole host of others) 

 

Just off the top of my head, without any deep thought or research, so I accept any correction if I was factually incorrect about anything. 

That's probably about the most honest I would guess.  I mean, they have.  There's numerous citations about their armed forces conducting operations in other nations.  But I guess if you start targeting the mouths behind the madness eventually someone will target you back.

 

edit*  Kind of wild to think there would be a day I'd almost think having an Arafat in charge would be better than what's going on now

Edited October 15, 2023 by Warhippy

[Junkyard Dog]

41 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

The reason it started is the fact that some members of LGBTQ community in the West is coming out in support of Hamas and some of us pointing out that it’s pretty oxymoronic.

It should be determined whether the support is for Palestinians or Hamas. There’s been good and bad support from both sides. 
 

25 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

See the above post.

 

This is dropping a deuce and leaving.

 

This is a global issue and not relegated to or just central to one place.  The suggestion of this post highlights or insinuates that side A is bad because of this when it is a global issue that permeates every political field and belief structure and in this instance needs to be highlighted as being a global issue and every single nation int he world has public figures in positions of importance making laws or statements of an inflammatory nature against this community.  That every nation has a population who finds their sheer existence as being repugnant.

 

People need to understand how serious this separate issue is and make damned well sure it is not used as a talking point used towards enflaming and directing peoples opinions against any one particular body.

 

Again a global issue.  The matter as such should be totally dead and dropped and should not be used as a talking point to highlight any one body knowing that is is in fact global

Going by the logic of that post. 
 

The precedent of that post may set is that no LGBTQ+ person could support most Muslim/ME nations in any conflict that in involves any country that LGBTQ+ people have more freedoms regardless of anything. 
 

That would be beyond irrationality. 

It also could set a precedent of normalizing violence towards people who aren’t pro LGBTQ+ which also doesn’t help the community as it would only reaffirm prejudice beliefs and perhaps strengthen them to the point of extremism. 
 

It shouldn’t be used as an argumentative point. 
 

That’s my two cents on it. 

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Agreed. Wholeheartedly agreed.

And now you understand the point I was trying to make.

 

That's it, that's all.  I wasn't trying to say, insinuate or suggest anything else.  Just remind people that every nation has awful people in public positions or positions of importance and awful policies that affect marginalized individuals.  One side is not magically better than the other in this regard.

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

It should be determined whether the support is for Palestinians or Hamas. There’s been good and bad support from both sides. 
 

Going by the logic of that post. 
 

The precedent of that post may set is that no LGBTQ+ person could support most Muslim/ME nations in any conflict that in involves any country that LGBTQ+ people have more freedoms regardless of anything. 
 

That would be beyond irrationality. 

It also could set a precedent of normalizing violence towards people who aren’t pro LGBTQ+ which also doesn’t help the community as it would only reaffirm prejudice beliefs and perhaps strengthen them to the point of extremism. 
 

It shouldn’t be used as an argumentative point. 
 

That’s my two cents on it. 

Unfortunately that post was just dropped as a one off.  Not part of a separate conversation.  hence the dropping a duece and leaving.

 

I also agree with your response to roman.  People need to understand that support for one aspect of an issue is not support for the issue in its entirety.

[CBH1926]

@Provost

 

Here are some of the attacks committed by Hamas mostly against civilians Spare me the BS about how long ago it happened. Just because KKK hasn’t lynched anyone since 1968, that doesn’t make them impotent boogeymen.

 

16 killed in suicide bombings on buses in Israel
https://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/31/mideast/

 

Bomb Rips Apart Israeli Bus, Kills 22

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-20-mn-52434-story.html

 

Suicide bomber strikes Israeli shopping centre

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/suicide-bomber-strikes-israeli-shopping-centre-1.387710

 

Hamas Bus Bombing Targets Civilians

https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/04/25/israel/palestine-hamas-bus-bombing-targets-civilians

 

Suicide Bombers Kill 13 in Jerusalem Market

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/31/world/suicide-bombers-kill-13-in-jerusalem-market.html

 

Suicide bomb massacre at Israeli beach disco

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/02/israel1

 

At least 14 dead as suicide bomber strikes Jerusalem 

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/10/world/at-least-14-dead-as-suicide-bomber-strikes-jerusalem.html

 

Bus blast kills at least 16 in Haifa, Israel

https://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/12/02/haifa.attack/index.html

'Passover massacre' at Israeli hotel kills 19

https://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/03/27/mideast/

 

A deadly thundering blast 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/10/20/a-deadly-thundering-blast-then-a-silent-scene-of-carnage/250e21ec-6173-4b32-b257-015b4c18b32d/

[Gurn]

Sure would be nice if god/allah would comeback and sort this mess out.

Seems humans are incapable, at least for now.

Maybe too busy talking with Zeus?

 

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

 

Been there, sheltered behind a concrete bus stop with my wife while Hezbolah fired some small rockets at where we happened to be on a vacation from my work in the region. Two Israeli vehicles with a full battle load on board moved a few blocks north of the fence and neutralized the terror cell. My wife still has nightmares from this. 

[Sharpshooter]

23 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Maybe not as low as the Wadi 'division' of upper and lower Gaza, but probably north of the intersection of  Hwy 10 and the Salah Al Deen main road, i mean. 

I could almost certainly see anything south-east of Salah Al Deen being demolished to create a 'buffer" like in southern Lebannon

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

And now you understand the point I was trying to make.

 

That's it, that's all.  I wasn't trying to say, insinuate or suggest anything else.  Just remind people that every nation has awful people in public positions or positions of importance and awful policies that affect marginalized individuals.  One side is not magically better than the other in this regard.

well just as an aside: your choice of argument has me convinced you are highly anti-Israel and you may by and large agree with the statement "israel should not exist". That is probably not your intent, but that is how you came off to me in reading pretty much everything you wrote here. 

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Been there, sheltered behind a concrete bus stop with my wife while Hezbolah fired some small rockets at where we happened to be on a vacation from my work in the region. Two Israeli vehicles with a full battle load on board moved a few blocks north of the fence and neutralized the terror cell. My wife still has nightmares from this. 

sorry for quoting myself but also as a fun aside: I played a bit of hockey in the Canada Center hockey rink in Metula, it was a blast!!! ooo bad choice of language, hehehe.

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Judging by your response no.  And if you have then you have only been reading the parts you want to.

 

This conflict is already awful and has ben for 7 decades or more.  Someone chiming in saying Side X does this to the lgbtq community and then peacing out needs to be addressed period.  I am not going to continue to further derail this thread with this conversation.  If people do not like the fact I used the other side in this conflict to remind people that this is a global issue and that NOBODY on this planet is innocent of how their public figures and policies and populace mentality treat individuals of the LGBTQ community fine, I don't care.  But it's still true and it's never going to change that fact.

 

I will no longer respond to question or pearl clutching bullshit outrage over this because derailing this thread further to explain to people who seem to want to have an emotional outburst over it is just not worth my time and there are far greater issues in this conflict that exist over reminding people that every nation in this planet has people who treat marginalized members of society like trash

 

This entire thread seems to include whataboutisms on pretty much every page that I have read.  if you go through the entire thread there is actually very little conversations about the actual terrorist attack itself and the actual ongoing events taking place.  

 

I understand this is a hot topic and to be quite frank, most people have "picked a side', for lack of a better phrase.  I see lots of posters condemning both sides but then have a very negative view of the other side.  This is typical in off topic threads, specifically the political threads. 

 

I totally understand where you are coming from by trying to point out the injustices that the LGBTQ+ community have faced on this side of the world.  I am not suggesting they are being treated as equals by any means here in Canada.  But the actual government policies in place for the LGBTQ+ community as well as women in the Middle East is absolutely abhorrent.  Not even comparable to here in Canada.  

 

In any event, I won't derail this thread any longer either.  Perhaps more posters can try and post information on what's actually happening in this war versus playing the whataboutism game to infinity...

[CBH1926]

18 minutes ago, Provost said:

I did not say that Hamas is impotent.  I said it WAS, and that is why the Israeli government and Israelis in general ignored them and the attack last week was successful even with the relatively pitiful force Hamas was able to muster.

Not something I made up, something reported regularly even in Israeli media.  Long before this attack and since it.  There will be a reckoning for those stupid Israeli government policies of intentionally strengthening Hamas once things settle down into whatever future is in store.

 

You are entirely uninterested in anything that doesn’t fit your narrative.  You refuse to cite any sources for any of your claims (I know why, you think you would look dumb if the one-sided “source” organization you used was shared).

 

If you can’t get past the “brown people bad, white people good” worldview you hold… then that is on you.

 

Folks like you suffer from what are called fundamental attribution errors.  You forgive Israeli murdering masses of civilians by saying they are a result of external situational forces… but condemn Palestinians who kill Israelis because they are inherently evil and savages.

 

 

 

 

 

Yup that is exactly right, don’t quit your day job.

Yes because all those Jews from Ethiopia, Iraq, India, Pakistan, Morocco, Algeria , Egypt etc. are white. Just for posting something as stupid as that, shows that you don’t know what you are talking about.
 

Edited October 15, 2023 by CBH1926

[Sharpshooter]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

In any event, I won't derail this thread any longer either.  Perhaps more posters can try and post information on what's actually happening in this war versus playing the whataboutism game to infinity...

I’m trying! 
 

[Sharpshooter]

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I’m trying! 
 

 

I'm with you!!!  

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Unfortunately that post was just dropped as a one off.  Not part of a separate conversation.  hence the dropping a duece and leaving.

 

I also agree with your response to roman.  People need to understand that support for one aspect of an issue is not support for the issue in its entirety.

I know but it can allow people to be carried away by the irrational logic and reasoning behind the one off. 
 

My goal in my response of that post you showed me was to help point out the flaws in it in order for it not to be used as a talking point anymore since the reasoning behind what he said make little sense to me.
 

LGBTQ issues are important but are not a weapon to be used in debate in regards to this conflict. 

[Optimist Prime]

What I think is currently happening is that Israel is hoping the majority of civilians move to the south half of the strip while they carry out their defensive work to remove hamas infrastructure, including weapons caches in schools and mosques, tunnel sites and entrances, Hamas offices and strongholds which are known to be built into appartment complexes from whose rooftops Hamas is currently firing rockets. 

 

Hamas is trying to prevent the exodus of palestinians from the north of the strip, mainly the city of Gaza, meanwhile Israel has restored water services to southern strip and Eqypt is opening the crossing at Rafah gate to allow humanitarian aid into the south of the strip.

 

Shin Bet knows more or less where the Hamas leadership goes and what it does in its day to day movements and will continue to eliminate them on a target by target basis while the IDF Airforce and artilary continue to pound 'Fortress Gaza' into rubble. 

 

One sure way to end the civilian suffering of the people of Gaza would be for the government of Gaza, Hamas, to surrender. I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.