Hamas attacking Israel

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Chicken.]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

 

US involvement coming in 3….2….

[Sharpshooter]

10 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Yup that is exactly right, don’t quit your day job.

Yes because all those Jews from Ethiopia, Iraq, India, Pakistan, Morocco, Algeria , Egypt etc. are white. Just for posting something as stupid as that, shows that you don’t know what you are talking about.
 

Speaking of India,

 

 

[Provost]

21 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

@Provost

 

Here are some of the attacks committed by Hamas mostly against civilians Spare me the BS about how long ago it happened. Just because KKK hasn’t lynched anyone since 1968, that doesn’t make them impotent boogeymen.

 

16 killed in suicide bombings on buses in Israel
https://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/31/mideast/

 

Bomb Rips Apart Israeli Bus, Kills 22

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-20-mn-52434-story.html

 

Suicide bomber strikes Israeli shopping centre

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/suicide-bomber-strikes-israeli-shopping-centre-1.387710

 

Hamas Bus Bombing Targets Civilians

https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/04/25/israel/palestine-hamas-bus-bombing-targets-civilians

 

Suicide Bombers Kill 13 in Jerusalem Market

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/31/world/suicide-bombers-kill-13-in-jerusalem-market.html

 

Suicide bomb massacre at Israeli beach disco

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/02/israel1

 

At least 14 dead as suicide bomber strikes Jerusalem 

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/10/world/at-least-14-dead-as-suicide-bomber-strikes-jerusalem.html

 

Bus blast kills at least 16 in Haifa, Israel

https://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/12/02/haifa.attack/index.html

'Passover massacre' at Israeli hotel kills 19

https://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/03/27/mideast/

 

A deadly thundering blast 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/10/20/a-deadly-thundering-blast-then-a-silent-scene-of-carnage/250e21ec-6173-4b32-b257-015b4c18b32d/

 

Literally everything you posted was 20-30 years ago… please post all the terrorist attacks since the occupation of Gaza ended and it was just turned into a prison.

 

Weird that you didn’t.  it is almost like you don’t believe in linear time.
 

Yes, the KKK is an impotent and irrelevant now.  They didn’t just choose to stop hanging black people with complete impunity.  They were stopped.
 

The Roman Empire, also not much of a threat.  Not a lot of Allied forces keeping the Third Reich in check at the moment.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Provost

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Chicken. said:

US involvement coming in 3….2….

Unlikely. Israel has fire control over southern Syria and can eliminate the IRGC and iranian armed militias allied to them as they approach say, Quinaitra. Also as the IRGC and associated militias from Iran move out of Deir ez-Zur, i expect things will improve for the Kurds and allied forces north of the Euphrates there.

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, JangoFett said:

Your response is so full of idealistic none sense. 
 

The point is, that land did not belong to the Jewish populace but they took it through shady agreements, then they have proceeded to expand that initial territory to displace the people who lived their for generations and take FULL CONTROL OF BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS  and essential needs of people they displaced into Gaza. Give your head a shake. It’s not an equivalent situation. All good, water, medicine is controlled. The Palestinian people are treated as prisoners on their own land. Did you know lentils are not allowed into Gaza? Lentils! How ludicrous is that.
 

There’s simply no equivalency here. As hard as it is for you to grasp. What I see is modern day colonialism imposing extreme measures on innocent civilians. 
 

Unbelievable. 

 

?

 

1) I called for restraint on the part of Israel, and to do it in good faith first.

2) For the exposure and arrest of those abusing land, more importantly Palestinians on the land in occupied territory.

3) I did call for Palestinians, I said Hamas but I meant Palestinians, to then help stop militant activity.

4) As law and order is restored, a retreat from occupied territories.

 

In a separate post I called for restraint, not to bomb civilian areas. People call Gaza a prison, something I also agree with in principal.  I'll discuss in a different post. People need to be freed.

 

What are you calling for. The death of Israel? The right of Hamas to do what occurred in Israel last weekend? That Hamas launching missiles from civilian heavy centre's is either justified, or a reasonable tactic?  If not, please explain...    

 

What part am I not grasping?  

Edited October 15, 2023 by Canuck Surfer

[Provost]

45 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This yahoo has had several gems of interviews.  They need a translation scrolling below him.

 

“Civilians aren’t the targets, but we are killing then in the thousands”

 

”We recognize being bombed and killed is inconvenient for Palestinian civilians and children”

 

”All the international agencies are wrong, over a million civilians including babies, elderly, and those in hospital are fully capable of walking out of northern Gaza while we are shelling them.  They don’t need food or water.”

 

”Those million or so people can just go couch surf with friends and family in southern Gaza while we carpet bomb their homes.”

[Ryan Strome]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

But that doesn't really explain Iran's involvement (and likely Russia) to destabilize the region.

So first off, it absolutely does explain Iran's involvement in my opinion because they are sick of what they've seen over the decades would be my guess coupled with the fact they absolutely hate the jewish race. As for Russia I don't think they played any role in this whatsoever. Russia is a nation that helped create a state for the Jewish people. Until I see compelling evidence to tell me otherwise, I'm going to go with this belief because we are living in a world where some of you are making it out to be that Russia is the most powerful thing to ever exist because everything is blame on Russia and I just don't buy that. They're getting to the point in my opinion that they are just some piddly Eastern European country with a huge stock pile of nuclear weapons.

[Canuck Surfer]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

This yahoo has had several gems of interviews.  They need a translation scrolling below him.

 

“Civilians aren’t the targets, but we are killing then in the thousands”

 

”We recognize being bombed and killed is inconvenient for Palestinian civilians and children”

 

”All the international agencies are wrong, over a million civilians including babies, elderly, and those in hospital are fully capable of walking out of northern Gaza while we are shelling them.  They don’t need food or water.”

 

”Those million or so people can just go couch surf with friends and family in southern Gaza while we carpet bomb their homes.”

 

4 minutes ago, Provost said:

This yahoo has had several gems of interviews.  They need a translation scrolling below him.

 

“Civilians aren’t the targets, but we are killing then in the thousands”

 

”We recognize being bombed and killed is inconvenient for Palestinian civilians and children”

 

”All the international agencies are wrong, over a million civilians including babies, elderly, and those in hospital are fully capable of walking out of northern Gaza while we are shelling them.  They don’t need food or water.”

 

”Those million or so people can just go couch surf with friends and family in southern Gaza while we carpet bomb their homes.”

 

Its not my opinion by the way, I called for restraint.  But its important to hear news reports and opinion pieces.  Myself, I do try to post from both sides. 

[Bob Long]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

So first off, it absolutely does explain Iran's involvement in my opinion because they are sick of what they've seen over the decades would be my guess coupled with the fact they absolutely hate the jewish race.

 

I don't believe for a second the Iran leaders care one iota about the average Palestinian, or Iranian for that matter. Hating Jewish people, yep.

 

There are other ways to show your displeasure with Israel than what Hamas did, come on. 

 

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

 

As for Russia I don't think they played any role in this whatsoever.

 

bitcoin my friend, its funding a lot of creepy shit in the ME. 

 

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

 

Russia is a nation that helped create a state for the Jewish people. Until I see compelling evidence to tell me otherwise, I'm going to go with this belief because we are living in a world where some of you are making it out to be that Russia is the most powerful thing to ever exist because everything is blame on Russia and I just don't buy that.

 

not Putin's Russia. He will use whatever means he can to sow problems for the west. 

 

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

 

They're getting to the point in my opinion that they are just some piddly Eastern European country with a huge stock pile of nuclear weapons.

 

I didn't put Putin on that pedestal. But they are trying to cause a lot of problems for the west, not sure why you're being naive on that?

 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't believe for a second the Iran leaders care one iota about the average Palestinian, or Iranian for that matter. Hating Jewish people, yep.

 

There are other ways to show your displeasure with Israel than what Hamas did, come on. 

 

 

bitcoin my friend, its funding a lot of creepy shit in the ME. 

 

 

not Putin's Russia. He will use whatever means he can to sow problems for the west. 

 

 

I didn't put Putin on that pedestal. But they are trying to cause a lot of problems for the west, not sure why you're being naive on that?

 

So I'll quickly respond on Russia and then I'll leave it at that. So we aren't going in the wrong direction in this thread. Although if you claim it's relevant, I guess it wouldn't be derailing. I'm not even sure Russia has the capacity or capabilities to be doing anything outside its borders right now. I think they are begging for winter to come because I think they're almost losing the capacity to control what's happening at their own borders and I believe Putin is very fearful of doing any more sort of military call-ups. I mean obviously I could be wrong. I just don't think this has anything to do with Russia. As for what Hamas did, I don't support that attack at all ever, but I understand it was bound to happen, especially when you don't have any means to strike military targets. I certainly never said it was okay if that's what you're misunderstanding.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So I'll quickly respond on Russia and then I'll leave it at that. So we aren't going in the wrong direction in this thread. Although if you claim it's relevant, I guess it wouldn't be derailing. I'm not even sure Russia has the capacity or capabilities to be doing anything outside its borders right now. I think they are begging for winter to come because I think they're almost losing the capacity to control what's happening at their own borders and I believe Putin is very fearful of doing any more sort of military call-ups. I mean obviously I could be wrong. I just don't think this has anything to do with Russia. As for what Hamas did, I don't support that attack at all ever, but I understand it was bound to happen, especially when you don't have any means to strike military targets. I certainly never said it was okay if that's what you're misunderstanding.

 

the link here is the use of funding from Iran of Hamas and using things like bitcoin. Russia and Iran are allies and I have no doubts whatsoever that Russia is providing money as part of this. 

 

Iran has loomed large as one of Hamas’ most generous financial backers, providing the militant group crucial resources it needs to carry out acts of terrorism. But investigators in the US and across the globe have identified another revenue source being exploited by Hamas: Far-flung online donors offering support in cryptocurrency.

Even before Hamas launched a surprise attack on Israel over the weekend, Justice Department officials in Washington, D.C. had been pursuing a criminal investigation into the militant group’s use of cryptocurrency through alleged money launderers, CNN has learned.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/us/hamas-funding-crypto-invs/index.html

 

and

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/hamas-gift-russia-vladimir-putin-international-crises-russia-israel-palestine/

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Bob Long

[Provost]

57 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

 

He also said in the same interview that it was really Hamas who cut water and power to Gaza.  After Israel repeatedly said they did it.

 

He also said they were working closely with the UN, but the UN has repeatedly asked them to stop killing and displacing civilians.

 

He also said Israel is following international law, when all the international agencies responsible for those laws says they are committing war crimes.

 

(about 7:20 near the end of the clip where he blamed Hamas for cutting off water and power by bombing them).

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/10/15/sotu-herzog.cnn

 

There is a lot of wiggle room when you say you don’t want to rule over the lives of 2 million Palestinians but “it is too early to talk about what will happen after”.  I mean they already have been for decades… so it is a weird thing to even say.  

Edited October 15, 2023 by Provost

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

the link here is the use of funding from Iran of Hamas and using things like bitcoin. Russia and Iran are allies and I have no doubts whatsoever that Russia is providing money as part of this. 

 

Iran has loomed large as one of Hamas’ most generous financial backers, providing the militant group crucial resources it needs to carry out acts of terrorism. But investigators in the US and across the globe have identified another revenue source being exploited by Hamas: Far-flung online donors offering support in cryptocurrency.

Even before Hamas launched a surprise attack on Israel over the weekend, Justice Department officials in Washington, D.C. had been pursuing a criminal investigation into the militant group’s use of cryptocurrency through alleged money launderers, CNN has learned.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/us/hamas-funding-crypto-invs/index.html

 

 

Okay well thank you. I was not aware of this.

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

He also said in the same interview that it was really Hamas who cut water and power to Gaza.  After Israel repeatedly said they did it.

 

He also said they were working closely with the UN, but the UN has repeatedly asked them to stop killing and displacing civilians.

 

He also said Israel is following international law, when all the international agencies responsible for those laws says they are committing war crimes.

 

(about 7:20 near the end of the clip where he blamed Hamas for cutting off water and power by bombing them).

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/10/15/sotu-herzog.cnn

 

There is a lot of wiggle room when you say you don’t want to rule over the lives of 2 million Palestinians.  I mean they already have been for decades… so it is a weird thing to even say.  

I suspect they don’t want to because they can’t or can’t afford to. 
 

One always ought to take messages from Ambassadors with a grain of self serving salt. 
 

I suspect both Hamas and Israel have something to do with the water, power, etc. to varying degrees at any given time. 

 

Again, no clean hands in that conflict from my vantage. 

[Provost]

11 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

Its not my opinion by the way, I called for restraint.  But its important to hear news reports and opinion pieces.  Myself, I do try to post from both sides. 

Sorry, yes I did not take you posting it as an indication of your support for what he was saying.  You didn’t editorialize it one way or the other.

 

I have seen him in other interviews.  CNN once all the dumb American “journalists” have gone to bed actually becomes more of a news station and less infotainment nonsense.  Their international anchors ask more pointed questions and more follow up, and this spokesperson looks way worse in those ones. 

[Provost]

Always good to read sources from different places. Outside Israel, North America, or Palestine.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67116403

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

There's zero chance that stops.  The military industrial complex has been around in every region of the world since humans first created city-states. 

 

Panem et circenses - bread and circuses; keep people (plebs) fed and entertained and the ruling classes (patricians) can basically do anything they please.

 

Eisenhower warned about it in his farewell address and people ignored him.  Same way they ignored George Washington in his farewell address when he warned that political parties could just as easily take away your rights as a king can.

There are probably many million Ukrainians and Israelis who are very happy the "American military complex" exists. Davy Crocket just grabbed Old Bess from the pegs above the fireplace and walked out the door. You Americans support a military complex that we all take advantage of in times like this. Bringing the Eisenhower within spitting distance of Lebanon will likely save a lot of lives. Many on here would cheer if it was sunk. So Canada and the Euros screw the Americans on defense and take satisfaction in doing so. As a Canadian it is more than embarrassing. Clever people on here have it all figured out, or they think they do. 

 

I think there are shots for rabid animals now a days. In the old days they just shot them.  

[Playoff Beered]

17 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So first off, it absolutely does explain Iran's involvement in my opinion because they are sick of what they've seen over the decades would be my guess coupled with the fact they absolutely hate the jewish race. As for Russia I don't think they played any role in this whatsoever. Russia is a nation that helped create a state for the Jewish people. Until I see compelling evidence to tell me otherwise, I'm going to go with this belief because we are living in a world where some of you are making it out to be that Russia is the most powerful thing to ever exist because everything is blame on Russia and I just don't buy that. They're getting to the point in my opinion that they are just some piddly Eastern European country with a huge stock pile of nuclear weapons.

 

I'm reposting this in case you missed it...

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

So?

 

@Provost

@moosehead

@JangoFett

 

Hamas, identified specifically by their own defense minister, mentioned their Islamic allies.  Which include Syria, Iran, even more specifically Hezbollah as a militia group...  They alll have integration with Russia, I cannot remember if they were praised as partners by name as well. @Sharpshooter, it was your X Tweet, dyu recall or can you post again?

 

Lets talk about Aleppo 2016?

 

35,000 to 50,000 were killed when Syria & its backer Russia, directly involved, flattened Aleppo 2016. Protests had started, and protestors were shot by Govt forces. Then rebel groups opposed to the Hezbollah backed Syrian govt infiltrated and took over sections of the city. Who were ''largely supportive of the govt.!''   When unsuccessful removing rebels, who started aprox 7000 strong; a full siege lasting 4 years took place. Power and water were cut off, goods and people restricted from moving in & out leading to widespread suffering of civilians. So the large scale offensive was undertaken to end the 4 year surge.

 

During the 2016 Syrian government offensive, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights warned that "crimes of historic proportions" were being committed in Aleppo.^[113]

 

Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aleppo_(2012–2016) 

 

Spoiler

Some choice points;

 

The large-scale devastation of the battle and its importance led combatants to name it the "mother of battles"^[85] or "Syria's Stalingrad".^[86][87] The battle was marked by widespread violence against civilians,^[88] repeated targeting of hospitals and schools (mostly by pro-government air forces^[89][90] and to a lesser extent by the rebels),^[91][92][93] and indiscriminate aerial strikes and shelling against civilian areas.^{[80][94][95][96]} It was also marked by the inability of the international community to resolve the conflict peacefully.

 

Hundreds of thousands of residents were displaced by the fighting and efforts to provide aid to civilians or facilitate evacuation were routinely disrupted by combat and mistrust between the opposing sides.^[98][99]

 

There were frequent instances of war crimes during the battle, including the use of chemical weapons by both Syrian government forces and rebel forces,^[100][101] the use of barrel bombs by the Syrian Air Force,^{[102][103][104][105]} the dropping of cluster munitions on populated areas by Russian and Syrian forces,^[106][107] the carrying out of "double tap" airstrikes to target rescue workers responding to previous strikes,^[108] summary executions of civilians and captured soldiers.

 

Why talk about Aleppo?

 

War crimes & style of battle by Hamas's stated partners and suppliers killed, in just months, months 5 x the aprox 7000 citizens, I believe Provost quoted, as being victimized since elections in Gaza, by Israeli forces. Who used tactics like sieges, cutting off water, power, mass bombing of civilian area's.  Who ''largely supported them?''  Over 33,000 buildings flattened. Tactics being condemned (rightly so) by Jango, Provost and Moosehead, if used by Israel, whom I raise this point to. 

 

And much worse if your read items in the spoiler! A pattern repeating itself in South Israel last weekend. 

 

Why is the behaviour by Hamas & its allies not a concern in respect to this conflict?

[Playoff Beered]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

This yahoo has had several gems of interviews.  They need a translation scrolling below him.

 

“Civilians aren’t the targets, but we are killing then in the thousands”

 

”We recognize being bombed and killed is inconvenient for Palestinian civilians and children”

 

”All the international agencies are wrong, over a million civilians including babies, elderly, and those in hospital are fully capable of walking out of northern Gaza while we are shelling them.  They don’t need food or water.”

 

”Those million or so people can just go couch surf with friends and family in southern Gaza while we carpet bomb their homes.”

 

If someone doesn't have time to watch the vid you posted and just reads your comments that you fully quoted they will walk away thinking that's what was actually said and not realizing it's just you putting words in his mouth.

 

Congratulations, you just created more disinformation for this topic. I realize you're not doing it on purpose, I hope anyway, but you should really try and not misrepresent or misquote people.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

well just as an aside: your choice of argument has me convinced you are highly anti-Israel and you may by and large agree with the statement "israel should not exist". That is probably not your intent, but that is how you came off to me in reading pretty much everything you wrote here. 

That's what you got out of all that?

Really?

 

Congratulations champ.  You're officially "that" guy I speak of so frequently when I mention how polarizing and awful political camps are.  You're either with me or you're the enemy.  Oh you have a differing opinion?  Well let me jump to the most illogical conclusion that suits my confirmation bias and then compartmentalize you in a neat box that I can judge you over from my soap box.

 

Just because I made a direct comparison about one of the only two players in this game based on a drop and go comment by an inflammatory poster.  Good for you.

[moosehead]

8 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

So?

 

@Provost

@moosehead

@JangoFett

 

Hamas, identified specifically by their own defense minister, mentioned their Islamic allies.  Which include Syria, Iran, even more specifically Hezbollah as a militia group...  They alll have integration with Russia, I cannot remember if they were praised as partners by name as well. @Sharpshooter, it was your X Tweet, dyu recall or can you post again?

 

Lets talk about Aleppo 2016?

 

35,000 to 50,000 were killed when Syria & its backer Russia, directly involved, flattened Aleppo 2016. Protests had started, and protestors were shot by Govt forces. Then rebel groups opposed to the Hezbollah backed Syrian govt infiltrated and took over sections of the city. Who were ''largely supportive of the govt.!''   When unsuccessful removing rebels, who started aprox 7000 strong; a full siege lasting 4 years took place. Power and water were cut off, goods and people restricted from moving in & out leading to widespread suffering of civilians. So the large scale offensive was undertaken to end the 4 year surge.

 

During the 2016 Syrian government offensive, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights warned that "crimes of historic proportions" were being committed in Aleppo.^[113]

 

Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aleppo_(2012–2016) 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Some choice points;

 

The large-scale devastation of the battle and its importance led combatants to name it the "mother of battles"^[85] or "Syria's Stalingrad".^[86][87] The battle was marked by widespread violence against civilians,^[88] repeated targeting of hospitals and schools (mostly by pro-government air forces^[89][90] and to a lesser extent by the rebels),^[91][92][93] and indiscriminate aerial strikes and shelling against civilian areas.^{[80][94][95][96]} It was also marked by the inability of the international community to resolve the conflict peacefully.

 

Hundreds of thousands of residents were displaced by the fighting and efforts to provide aid to civilians or facilitate evacuation were routinely disrupted by combat and mistrust between the opposing sides.^[98][99]

 

There were frequent instances of war crimes during the battle, including the use of chemical weapons by both Syrian government forces and rebel forces,^[100][101] the use of barrel bombs by the Syrian Air Force,^{[102][103][104][105]} the dropping of cluster munitions on populated areas by Russian and Syrian forces,^[106][107] the carrying out of "double tap" airstrikes to target rescue workers responding to previous strikes,^[108] summary executions of civilians and captured soldiers.

 

Why talk about Aleppo?

 

War crimes & style of battle by Hamas's stated partners and suppliers killed, in just months, months 5 x the aprox 7000 citizens, I believe Provost quoted, as being victimized since elections in Gaza, by Israeli forces. Who used tactics like sieges, cutting off water, power, mass bombing of civilian area's.  Who ''largely supported them?''  Over 33,000 buildings flattened. Tactics being condemned (rightly so) by Jango, Provost and Moosehead, if used by Israel, whom I raise this point to. 

 

And much worse if your read items in the spoiler! A pattern repeating itself in South Israel last weekend. 

 

Why is the behaviour by Hamas & its allies not a concern in respect to this conflict?

 

The actions by Hamas are horrific and absolutely are a huge concern.  Hopefully those in Hamas that carried out these terrible acts are held fully responsible.    

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

 

So...Iran wants to have their asses handed to them again?

 

Seems smart.

[moosehead]

5 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

The actions by Hamas are horrific and absolutely are a huge concern.  Hopefully those in Hamas that carried out these terrible acts are held fully responsible.      Is it not possible to be opposed to both Apartheid and Terrorists / Terrorism  ?  Both sides ?

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by moosehead