Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 11 minutes ago, moosehead said: yes, i do blame both Hamas and Israeli government for this 80 year conflict and all the human suffering that has occured. Tit for Tat killings will not solve this conflict. Just like locking millions of humans in a cage with limited access to power, water , food , med supplies will also not help keep Israeli's safe in the long term..... It will only perpetuate this never ending conflict. Yes i want to see both Palestinians and Israeli's live freely in their own democratic state. I just can't get there with you, there's nothing about the history to me that justifies butchering families they way Hamas did last week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 26 minutes ago, Bob Long said: you mean a democratically elected leader? So you support Benjamin Netanyahu ( longest running israeli PM ) and the current Likud extremist right wing policies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I don't see a future, at least not in the 35ish years i have left on earth, where the people of Gaza are free to roam in Israel. In essence Gaza was and is its own state, and we witnessed that state attack Israel about ten days ago. I am not sure that will work out well at all for the people of Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, moosehead said: So you support Benjamin Netanyahu ( longest running israeli PM ) and the current Likud extremist right wing policies.... I support Israel's right to democratically elect who they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 26 minutes ago, Bob Long said: you mean a democratically elected leader? Full stop. Netenyahu is a bad bad man. He has been the force and driving hand behind much of the settlement and expansions in Palestinian land in which Israeli settlers force out Palestinians and then he defends the violence by saying Palestinians attacked Israeli settlers on their own land. The poster is 100% not suggesting that hamas is a good or better option but flat out saying that hamas and Netenyahu are both the exact issue that will ensure peace never comes to the region due to their current and sustained actions over a large number of years. In this, my personal opinion is that poster is absolutely not wrong at all. Netenyahu is a bad very bad man and he has absolutely helped exacerbate things with his leadership 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Bob Long said: I just can't get there with you, there's nothing about the history to me that justifies butchering families they way Hamas did last week. I can't get there with you. There is nothing about the history to me that supports ethnic cleansing, occupations, oppression , racism and locking up million of people in fenced in commuties where basic needs are denied the way Israel does.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Coconuts said: Pretty much. How many times over the last couple decades have consumers been fucked over at the gas pump because of tensions in x or y? Oil companies will do whatever they can to extract more money from the general public. Which sucks, because costs of living are nuts and we're being gouged more post-Covid than ever. Gas jumped something like 8 cents on the fear of what the response to the attack by Hamas would bring on 2 Saturdays ago. Just when it was starting to come back down, fear , drove it back. It’s since come back down a bit but anything is used by oil companies to wring out a little extra revenue. But I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I support Israel's right to democratically elect who they want to. That's great for you but i can not support Apartheid...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, moosehead said: That's great for you but i can not support Apartheid...... yea, don't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Optimist Prime said: I don't see a future, at least not in the 35ish years i have left on earth, where the people of Gaza are free to roam in Israel. In essence Gaza was and is its own state, and we witnessed that state attack Israel about ten days ago. I am not sure that will work out well at all for the people of Gaza. Are they free to roam at all? Even on their own land? Within their own shrinking borders? Remember what happened in 2017 after the US announced Jerusalem was Israels true capita? This is part of the ongoing issue and problem. Not free to roam, even within their own borders as those borders continue to shrink while food, medicine and power are held at the whim of what is effectively turning in to occupiers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, moosehead said: I can't get there with you. There is nothing about the history to me that supports ethnic cleansing, occupations, oppression , racism and locking up million of people in fenced in commuties where basic needs are denied the way Israel does.... I'm not the one using the equivalence arguments. TBH I think you and I are not going to agree, so time to drop it. Go ahed and have the last word. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PhillipBlunt Posted October 16, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2023 You know shit's serious when there's a sniper in the thread. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: yea, don't do that. You just said you support Israeli government Amnesty International’s new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control: in Israel and the OPT, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Gas jumped something like 8 cents on the fear of what the response to the attack by Hamas would bring on 2 Saturdays ago. Just when it was starting to come back down, fear , drove it back. It’s since come back down a bit but anything is used by oil companies to wring out a little extra revenue. But I digress. Gotta love those multinational corporate monopolies.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, moosehead said: You just said you support Israeli government Amnesty International’s new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control: in Israel and the OPT, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ I read it as supporting a democratically elected and democratically alligned government. Similar concerns about Poland going too hard right are now in the news as a coalition parties 'left' of the right wing fundamentalists who got the most seats seems to be forming power, democracy allows for the peaceful transition of governance after the people have voted. Trump notwithstanding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Gotta love those multinational corporate monopolies.. Gas jumped? Trudeau's fault *don't snipe me* 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Warhippy said: Gas jumped? Trudeau's fault *don't snipe me* F TrueDough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Warhippy said: Gas jumped? Trudeau's fault *don't snipe me* hehehe, I am surprised the Freedumb Cowboys aren't blaming the Hamas attack on Israeli civilians on Trudeau, to be honest. Somehow I can easily imagine some of those Truth Social posts managing to do just that..lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Full stop. Netenyahu is a bad bad man. He has been the force and driving hand behind much of the settlement and expansions in Palestinian land in which Israeli settlers force out Palestinians and then he defends the violence by saying Palestinians attacked Israeli settlers on their own land. The poster is 100% not suggesting that hamas is a good or better option but flat out saying that hamas and Netenyahu are both the exact issue that will ensure peace never comes to the region due to their current and sustained actions over a large number of years. In this, my personal opinion is that poster is absolutely not wrong at all. Netenyahu is a bad very bad man and he has absolutely helped exacerbate things with his leadership Bibi is a sack of crap, I agree. But you can't stop a democracy from doing its thing. Hamas has stopped free elections in Gaza, thats a different animal altogether. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said: You know shit's serious when there's a sniper in the thread. It is and I am. Waiting. Watching. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said: It is and I am. Waiting. Watching. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, moosehead said: You just said you support Israeli government Amnesty International’s new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control: in Israel and the OPT, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ No, he said he supports Isreal having elections and wants the same for Palestinians. That's how I understood his post anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Bibi is a sack of crap, I agree. But you can't stop a democracy from doing its thing. Hamas has stopped free elections in Gaza, thats a different animal altogether. I don't disagree with this. Hopefully Israel population can swing to support more moderates which may allow for some kind of peace negotiations. I think the world put pressure on South Africa to become a more moderate inclusive nation... but that is another story..... I am not sure how Palestine can rid itself of Hamas..... Edited October 16, 2023 by moosehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Shift-4 said: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: You know shit's serious when there's a sniper in the thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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