Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

I don't disagree with this.   Hopefully Israel population can swing to support more moderates which may allow for some kind of peace negotiations.  

 

I am not sure how Palestine can rid itself of Hamas.....

 

I think the IDF is going to take care of that for Palestine.

 

Even with our heated stuff back and forth today, its pretty clear nearly everyone just wants some kind of peaceful resolution out of all this. 

 

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

I don't disagree with this.   Hopefully Israel population can swing to support more moderates which may allow for some kind of peace negotiations.  

 

I am not sure how Palestine can rid itself of Hamas.....

Hamas is a P.I.T.A. (pain the in the A**) I am hopeful they can be stripped out of Gaza and some peace for the good people of Gaza can take root.

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Hamas is a P.I.T.A. (pain the in the A**) I am hopeful they can be stripped out of Gaza and some peace for the good people of Gaza can take root.

 

The good people of Gaza had no peace even before Hamas. ........ I hate extremism, of all kinds..

 

 

Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-Islāmiyyah, English Islamic Resistance Movement,

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by moosehead

[Warhippy]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Bibi is a sack of crap, I agree. But you can't stop a democracy from doing its thing. Hamas has stopped free elections in Gaza, thats a different animal altogether. 

That's not the argument though and the point the poster is/was trying to make is that one side is as bad to the situation as the other.

 

Hamas continues to make attacks.

Netenyahu continues to justify and silently encourage settlement and expansion/annexation.

 

Both serve the exact same master in regards to the situation.  They foster hate, anger and incite violence.

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

 

You...uhhh

 

You gonna eat that or?  5 second rule?

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

 

The good people of Gaza had no peace even before Hamas. ........

I stand to be corrected if this is indeed incorrect, but I believe I recall life in the Strip better under Fatah than under Hamas. 

[Playoff Beered]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

The good people of Gaza had no peace even before Hamas. ........

 

With posts like this it makes it seem that you believe all this is only Israel's fault.

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

The good people of Gaza had no peace even before Hamas. ........

Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-Islāmiyyah, English Islamic Resistance Movement,

It is incredibly important then that they get to know peace, I think we can all agree on that. 

the Majority of Gazans were born in Gaza in the last 20 years, the minority of people in Gaza were born outside of it. I am hopeful that the majority, and clearly the majority want peace and to exist without fear of imminent death, will prevail in a lasting peace. That can't happen with Hamas.

[moosehead]

1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

With posts like this it makes it seem that you believe all this is only Israel's fault.

 

Really . Not sure why you would post this.  Throughout this thread i have consistently posted that it is my opinion that both sides are to blame for this conflict.      

[RomanPer]

41 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yes, I do blame Hamas for this current act. Yes I do think Israel has the right to protect itself from this kind of thing. Yes I want to see Palestinians live freely in their own democratic state. 

 

What I would add to it is that on Israeli side left vs right only differ in how far they want to go to protect themselves and how much they trust or distrust the other side. There are no mainstream politicians who just want to kill Palestinians for the sake of killing Palestinians. Even if one brings up the latest announcements by Yoav Gallant - it was directed at Hamas, not every Palestinian out there.

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 one side is as bad to the situation as the other.

 

Hamas continues to make attacks.

Netenyahu continues  silently encourage settlement

I find it unsettling that you equate the two actions. 

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's not the argument though and the point the poster is/was trying to make is that one side is as bad to the situation as the other.

 

I know, and I very much disagree with that take obviously. 

 

To me having Hamas stopping free elections ensures that nothing positive can happen. Yes Bibi is provoking things, but compared to losing your democratic rights from your own so-called leaders, who clearly don't care that they are dragging you in to hell? sorry just can't see the equivalence thing holding up.

 

If Hamas has just targeted military targets, maybe I could get part way but not the way they handled things. 

 

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Hamas continues to make attacks.

Netenyahu continues to justify and silently encourage settlement and expansion/annexation.

 

I hope one of the results of all this is they finally kick him out for more of a moderate and they stop the expansion. 

 

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Both serve the exact same master in regards to the situation.  They foster hate, anger and incite violence.

You...uhhh

 

You gonna eat that or?  5 second rule?

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Bob Long

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's not the argument though and the point the poster is/was trying to make is that one side is as bad to the situation as the other.

 

Hamas continues to make attacks.

Netenyahu continues to justify and silently encourage settlement and expansion/annexation.

 

Both serve the exact same master in regards to the situation.  They foster hate, anger and incite violence.

You...uhhh

 

You gonna eat that or?  5 second rule?

 

Gonna put it in the icebox that is CDC and resume shitposting on main 

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

What I would add to it is that on Israeli side left vs right only differ in how far they want to go to protect themselves and how much they trust or distrust the other side. There are no mainstream politicians who just want to kill Palestinians for the sake of killing Palestinians. Even if one brings up the latest announcements by Yoav Gallant - it was directed at Hamas, not every Palestinian out there.

 

I think it's important for people to read this. If you had some info to post showing this I think it would help the discussion a lot.

 

[RomanPer]

37 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I don't see a future, at least not in the 35ish years i have left on earth, where the people of Gaza are free to roam in Israel. In essence Gaza was and is its own state, and we witnessed that state attack Israel about ten days ago. 

I am not sure that will work out well at all for the people of Gaza.

 

Here's the fact - when my Dad was dying in the hospital in Beer Sheva in 2020, right next to him was a man from Gaza being treated for heart condition, with his large family visiting him daily. Once you get permission to cross into Israel (when you've proven that you have no ties to terrorists), you could "roam free" in Israel. I'm pretty sure it's changed now though.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I find it unsettling that you equate the two actions. 

I find it predictable this would be your response.

 

As a first nations member I watched as innocent protestors were dragged out of their homes in the Wet su'weten lands because they sat in silent protest of a pipeline across their lands.  Their own homes.  Their own lands.  

 

My own band was forcibly relocated 3 times by the canadian government with a portion of it ending up in the disastrous but forgotten resettlement program in the arctic in the 50s and 60s.

 

Because your posts over the last 5 or 6 pages show you have lived in or traveled extensively Israel.  Your bias; should it be bias, based on experience or preference is appearing to be absolute.  You are thus unable to look at this objectively.  So with that in mind; I will ask for you to think of the following as you think it is "unsettling that I equate the two actions"

 

Tell me, how is it not the same when one side engages in violence.  Overtly like Hamas.  While the other engages in violence, on a more silent level by encouraging the ongoing annexation of land which still results in death but also continues the silent annexation and loss of existing land.

 

How is it different?  If you shoot someone it is violent.  If you force someone from their home, move in another person then beat, jail or shoot the family that you forced out how is it different?

 

The individuals in the Wet Su'Weten blockades were forced out of their home, tied up at gun point and then forcibly moved to a prison.  Their land was then essentially stolen from them as the pipeline they did not want went through it.  While I can also be stated to have a bias here I can also outright be objective and say they are the same thing.

 

Corn flakes vs Frosted Flakes without the icing sugar.  What is the difference?

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think it's important for people to read this. If you had some info to post showing this I think it would help the discussion a lot.

 

I think it is self evident: Gaza attacked Israel 10 days ago and it took Israel over a week to move their military apparatus to the south of Israel near Gaza. 

 

I would imagine that if the Israeli government or factions within it wanted to destroy Gazans, then the military apparatus would already have been there surrounding Gaza. No? maybe i would be too ruthless an oppressor, because in my mind the lack of an overwhelming military force at the border with Gaza is a big big oversight, if we are supposing that there are murderous Israeli's in the government of Israel who are simply bent on killing Gazans. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Gonna put it in the icebox that is CDC and resume shitposting on main 

Lemme know when you warm it up if you feel like sharing  

[moosehead]

8 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Here's the fact - when my Dad was dying in the hospital in Beer Sheva in 2020, right next to him was a man from Gaza being treated for heart condition, with his large family visiting him daily. Once you get permission to cross into Israel (when you've proven that you have no ties to terrorists), you could "roam free" in Israel. I'm pretty sure it's changed now though.

 

So Palestinians need some kind of special permission to have freedom.

But Israel is against just outright murdering Palestinians ....

But occupying their lands and homes is OK ?

 

Well isn't that just super kind of Israel........

 

APARTHEID in action.....

Edited October 16, 2023 by moosehead

[RomanPer]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think it's important for people to read this. If you had some info to post showing this I think it would help the discussion a lot.

 

 

Everyone on my ignore list thinks that I'm pro-genocide (even though I have no idea where that came from, I specifically re-read every single of my posts in this thread and didn't see anything even remotely resembling it), and they all think that I'm just spewing Israeli propaganda. No matter what I post, they will not change their mind. So, why should I bother? I already provided countless examples of lasting peace with both Egypt and Jordan, new peace agreement with UAE, existence of Arab parties in Israel, having Arab members of Knesset, Arabic being one of the 2 official languages in Israel, combined Arab and Jewish neighborhoods in cities like Jaffo, Haifa, Acco, etc. Not sure what more I can say to show that there's no inherent desire to kill all the Palestinians on the Israel side.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I find it predictable this would be your response.

 

As a first nations member I watched as innocent protestors were dragged out of their homes in the Wet su'weten lands because they sat in silent protest of a pipeline across their lands.  Their own homes.  Their own lands.  

 

My own band was forcibly relocated 3 times by the canadian government with a portion of it ending up in the disastrous but forgotten resettlement program in the arctic in the 50s and 60s.

 

Because your posts over the last 5 or 6 pages show you have lived in or traveled extensively Israel.  Your bias; should it be bias, based on experience or preference is appearing to be absolute.  You are thus unable to look at this objectively.  So with that in mind; I will ask for you to think of the following as you think it is "unsettling that I equate the two actions"

 

Tell me, how is it not the same when one side engages in violence.  Overtly like Hamas.  While the other engages in violence, on a more silent level by encouraging the ongoing annexation of land which still results in death but also continues the silent annexation and loss of existing land.

 

How is it different?  If you shoot someone it is violent.  If you force someone from their home, move in another person then beat, jail or shoot the family that you forced out how is it different?

 

The individuals in the Wet Su'Weten blockades were forced out of their home, tied up at gun point and then forcibly moved to a prison.  Their land was then essentially stolen from them as the pipeline they did not want went through it.  While I can also be stated to have a bias here I can also outright be objective and say they are the same thing.

 

Corn flakes vs Frosted Flakes without the icing sugar.  What is the difference?

 

I'll give you a hypothetical on how its different. If the Wet Su'Weten had denied their own people their democratic rights in that process, and then performed an act that put all Wet Su'Weten people in danger, then it would be the same.

 

But thats not what happened. The Wet Su'Weten hereditary leaders acted on their own accord, and didn't drag Canada into hurting all of them.

 

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

Everyone on my ignore list thinks that I'm pro-genocide (even though I have no idea where that came from, I specifically re-read every single of my posts in this thread and didn't see anything even remotely resembling it), and they all think that I'm just spewing Israeli propaganda. No matter what I post, they will not change their mind. So, why should I bother? I already provided countless examples of lasting peace with both Egypt and Jordan, new peace agreement with UAE, existence of Arab parties in Israel, having Arab members of Knesset, Arabic being one of the 2 official languages in Israel, combined Arab and Jewish neighborhoods in cities like Jaffo, Haifa, Acco, etc. Not sure what more I can say to show that there's no inherent desire to kill all the Palestinians on the Israel side.

 

the other peace agreements are an excellent point, actually. 

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I find it predictable this would be your response.

 

As a first nations member I watched as innocent protestors were dragged out of their homes in the Wet su'weten lands because they sat in silent protest of a pipeline across their lands.  Their own homes.  Their own lands.  

 

My own band was forcibly relocated 3 times by the canadian government with a portion of it ending up in the disastrous but forgotten resettlement program in the arctic in the 50s and 60s.

 

Because your posts over the last 5 or 6 pages show you have lived in or traveled extensively Israel.  Your bias; should it be bias, based on experience or preference is appearing to be absolute.  You are thus unable to look at this objectively.  So with that in mind; I will ask for you to think of the following as you think it is "unsettling that I equate the two actions"

 

Tell me, how is it not the same when one side engages in violence.  Overtly like Hamas.  While the other engages in violence, on a more silent level by encouraging the ongoing annexation of land which still results in death but also continues the silent annexation and loss of existing land.

 

How is it different?  If you shoot someone it is violent.  If you force someone from their home, move in another person then beat, jail or shoot the family that you forced out how is it different?

 

The individuals in the Wet Su'Weten blockades were forced out of their home, tied up at gun point and then forcibly moved to a prison.  Their land was then essentially stolen from them as the pipeline they did not want went through it.  While I can also be stated to have a bias here I can also outright be objective and say they are the same thing.

 

Corn flakes vs Frosted Flakes without the icing sugar.  What is the difference?

 

Sorry to hear how colonialism has negatively / and currently negatively affected you family and community.

Stolen children, stolen lands, cultural destruction - quite the legacy we are still dealing with in BC. 

I had hoped things were improving and we had learned from the past.  

Sad to hear these kinds of terrible things are still happening. 

[RomanPer]

4 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

So Palestinians need some kind of special permission to have freedom.

But Israel is against just outright murdering them.....

But occupying their lands and homes is OK ?

 

Well isn't that just super kind of Israel........

 

APARTHEID in action.....

 

WTF? Gaza is not part of Israel, why wouldn't they need special permission to enter another country? Go to a country that doesn't have visa-free agreement with Canada and try to get an entry visa to Canada, see how many hoops you need to jump through.

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I find it predictable this would be your response.

 

As a first nations member I watched as innocent protestors were dragged out of their homes in the Wet su'weten lands because they sat in silent protest of a pipeline across their lands.  Their own homes.  Their own lands.  

 

 

Because your posts over the last 5 or 6 pages show you have lived in or traveled extensively Israel. 

I spent six times more time in Syria than Israel, but that is irrelevant. Everyone has bias they don't see, so I will simply say yeah maybe i have some preexisting bias towards NOT butchering kids at a peace festival. 

 

The pipeline situation as it relates to the Wet'su'wetsun (may apologies for poor spelling) is not as cut and dry as you make it sound. The democratically elected government of that Band signed legal agreements and will receive compensation for the addition of the second pipeline beside the first pipeline. The dissenting group is the Hereditary chief and his family and friends. Hereditary Chiefs are unelected and the mantle falls to the next generation of that one family when the edler passes. I am not trying to involve myself in the matters of governance of that Nation, only that the illegal protestors who were arrested were given ample warning and chances to stop breaking the law. I know it is a complicated matter that I do not fully understand but that is kind of the synopsis i have from it. (my good friend who is retired from commanding the Canadian Special Operations Regiment has been a BC Gov. Liaison to the F.N. in BC for over a decade and has travelled to  more than 150 First Nations in BC as part of his job, again I don't know all the specifics of the situation but I have a fairly decent handle on it from my own interest in advancing the rights of Canada's First Nations people, and from many discussions with him on the subject.)

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I stand to be corrected if this is indeed incorrect, but I believe I recall life in the Strip better under Fatah than under Hamas. 

There was no blockade before Hamas took over. Hamas froze all elections after they won. They are a dictatorship similar to Putin and Kim Jong Un. They need to be destroyed before peace talks can even take place. 
 

As for Israel, they can also vote to take out Bibi and his far right coalition partners.