Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

 

 

I'm very glad to see this!

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

There was no blockade before Hamas took over. Hamas froze all elections after they won. They are a dictatorship similar to Putin and Kim Jong Un. They need to be destroyed before peace talks can even take place. 
 

As for Israel, they can also vote to take out Bibi and his far right coalition partners. 

 

I predict that Bibi loses next election by a very large margin. I will actually buy a ticket to fly to Ottawa to the Embassy to cast my vote against him for the first time in 26 years.

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I spent six times more time in Syria than Israel, but that is irrelevant. Everyone has bias they don't see, so I will simply say yeah maybe i have some preexisting bias towards NOT butchering kids at a peace festival. 

 

The pipeline situation as it relates to the Wet'su'wetsun (may apologies for poor spelling) is not as cut and dry as you make it sound. The democratically elected government of that Band signed legal agreements and will receive compensation for the addition of the second pipeline beside the first pipeline. The dissenting group is the Hereditary chief and his family and friends. Hereditary Chiefs are unelected and the mantle falls to the next generation of that one family when the edler passes. I am not trying to involve myself in the matters of governance of that Nation, only that the illegal protestors who were arrested were given ample warning and chances to stop breaking the law. I know it is a complicated matter that I do not fully understand but that is kind of the synopsis i have from it. (my good friend who is retired from commanding the Canadian Special Operations Regiment has been a BC Gov. Liaison to the F.N. in BC for over a decade and has travelled to  more than 150 First Nations in BC as part of his job, again I don't know all the specifics of the situation but I have a fairly decent handle on it from my own interest in advancing the rights of Canada's First Nations people, and from many discussions with him on the subject.)

Before I read this, just so we're clear.  I am not speaking ill; at all of your experience in or with your time in Israel.  As you have been there first hand, much like Roman you will have a natural inherent bias based on your experiences.  This is not a negative at all and in no way do I mean it to come across as such.

 

So please understand when I say the word bias I do not mean it is a slight I mean it as a natural human trait based on their experiences or exposure to a situation that keeps them from possibly seeing things from the other side of things or objectively

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Before I read this, just so we're clear.  I am not speaking ill; at all of your experience in or with your time in Israel.  As you have been there first hand, much like Roman you will have a natural inherent bias based on your experiences.  This is not a negative at all and in no way do I mean it to come across as such.

 

So please understand when I say the word bias I do not mean it is a slight I mean it as a natural human trait based on their experiences or exposure to a situation that keeps them from possibly seeing things from the other side of things or objectively

 

Following your own logic, how can you claim that your point of view is entirely objective?

[moosehead]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

There was no blockade before Hamas took over. Hamas froze all elections after they won. They are a dictatorship similar to Putin and Kim Jong Un. They need to be destroyed before peace talks can even take place. 
 

As for Israel, they can also vote to take out Bibi and his far right coalition partners. 

 

Agreed.  Palestinian communities inside Israel also suffer from poverty and lack of government funding / support.

 

A new report has found that the percentage of Palestinian citizens of Israel living below the poverty line is almost double the national average, pointing to a huge disparity between Palestinian and Jewish Israelis.

The report – released today by Israel’s National Insurance Institute (Bituach Leumi) – found that 47.1 per cent of Palestinian-Israeli families live below the poverty line, versus a national average of 28.4 per cent.

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20181231-palestinian-poverty-level-almost-double-israel-average/

[Playoff Beered]

28 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

What I would add to it is that on Israeli side left vs right only differ in how far they want to go to protect themselves and how much they trust or distrust the other side. There are no mainstream politicians who just want to kill Palestinians for the sake of killing Palestinians. Even if one brings up the latest announcements by Yoav Gallant - it was directed at Hamas, not every Palestinian out there.

 

23 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

I think it's important for people to read this. If you had some info to post showing this I think it would help the discussion a lot.

 

I've seen several posters claim that it's Isreal's official state policy to eradicate all Palestinians.

 

Well if that's true I want to see it in writing, but when challenged it's the old "I'm not doing your research for you" or they just point to some extremist on twitter calling for it.

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

 

The government of Canada considers the Taliban a terrorist organization. Those people flying the flag of the Taliban should be arrested and thrown in jail. And if they are not a Canadian citizen they should be deported from this country. 
 

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/crrnt-lstd-ntts-en.aspx

[Optimist Prime]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Before I read this, just so we're clear.  I am not speaking ill; at all of your experience in or with your time in Israel.  As you have been there first hand, much like Roman you will have a natural inherent bias based on your experiences.  This is not a negative at all and in no way do I mean it to come across as such.

 

So please understand when I say the word bias I do not mean it is a slight I mean it as a natural human trait based on their experiences or exposure to a situation that keeps them from possibly seeing things from the other side of things or objectively

I know, i am not offended because you are correct, our personal experiences do lead to a cognizant understanding of any situation and that is relatively known as a bias. The funny thing is on a personal level, i have friends from Syria who are arab and who are muslim and who are awesome people. Many more were just good people i got to know in the moment but lost touch with. in Israel, on a much smaller scale of time, I found the general population much like going to New York or Los Angeles in the USA, that is to say a somewhat unpleasant experience in general in one on one situations with the locals. ON the whole, I eventually plan to retire to Syria if the situation resolves to one of peace and prosperity I would certainly buy a home there. I would never choose to live in Israel. That is my personal bias insofar as teh two 'personality traits' go of the citizens I had encounters with.

 

It is too much to really explain in one sitting. One anecdote I like is that I had a very good relationship with a businessman in Syria (i even helped him pay his taxes by serving in his escort team to the minister of finance on my off hours). When i first met him I had tea and shawarma in his shop while his employees showed me the things I may be interested in purchasing. I was simply a customer, and a local Syrian arab was also treated this way. The culture is amazing and a much better experience as a 'consumer' vs what I experienced in new york or l.a. as a for instance. We got along very well and were friends for years. I spent a weekend in Eilat, on the Red Sea in southern Israel at a resort on a vacation from my duties in the interest of Canada, and jsut by way of example, my wife was looking at a black raincoat as the weather had turned, but we didn't look rich and we didnt' speak Yiddish. The shopkeeper literally yanked the coat out of my wifes hands and told her she could only touch the merchandise she was going to buy, but then handed that rain coat to an affluent Israeli citizen who spoke the language.  it is just one little anecdote, but when it comes to bias I would rather sit in a Sooke in Damascus and have tea over a hubbly bubbly than shop in Israel any day of the week. 

 

Anyways, no harm no foul, i wasn't offended. 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

 

I've seen several posters claim that it's Isreal's official state policy to eradicate all Palestinians.

 

Well if that's true I want to see it in writing, but when challenged it's the old "I'm not doing your research for you" or they just point to some extremist on twitter calling for it.

There is no official Israeli policy to eradicate Palestinians from the earth. There is however an official policy of Hamas to not only eradicate the state of Israel from the planet but to also take over ever other country in the world with their radical terrorist agenda. 
 

This was already confirmed in this thread by the son of one of the founders of Hamas. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Sharpshooter]

Hamas Release a Video Of A Hostage.

 

Mia Shem, 21 years old, is a Shoham resident with French citizenship.

 

She was hostage by Hamas from Sderot on the 7th of October.

 

"I am a prisoner in Gaza and they treated me and performed a surgery on me that took 3 hours, and everything is fine, and I only ask that you return me home as soon as possible, return me to my family, please get us out of here as soon as possible"

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

11 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Agreed.  Palestinian communities inside Israel also suffer from poverty and lack of government funding / support.

 

A new report has found that the percentage of Palestinian citizens of Israel living below the poverty line is almost double the national average, pointing to a huge disparity between Palestinian and Jewish Israelis.

The report – released today by Israel’s National Insurance Institute (Bituach Leumi) – found that 47.1 per cent of Palestinian-Israeli families live below the poverty line, versus a national average of 28.4 per cent.

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20181231-palestinian-poverty-level-almost-double-israel-average/

that sucks but i see it. In keeping with some discussion likening palestinians to first nations in Canada; the population of Manitoba who are first nations people is 18.1% while the prison population of Mantoba's jails is over 60%.

There is injustice everywhere in the world, even Canada.

[Sharpshooter]

According to the Iranian Foreign Minister, there could be “Preemptive Measures” taken by the Axis of Resistance against Israel in the coming hours; the Axis of Resistance includes Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah as well as any Anti-Western or Anti-Israeli Militia Groups across the Middle East which are under their Control.

 

 

[RomanPer]

6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I know, i am not offended because you are correct, our personal experiences do lead to a cognizant understanding of any situation and that is relatively known as a bias. The funny thing is on a personal level, i have friends from Syria who are arab and who are muslim and who are awesome people. Many more were just good people i got to know in the moment but lost touch with. in Israel, on a much smaller scale of time, I found the general population much like going to New York or Los Angeles in the USA, that is to say a somewhat unpleasant experience in general in one on one situations with the locals. ON the whole, I eventually plan to retire to Syria if the situation resolves to one of peace and prosperity I would certainly buy a home there. I would never choose to live in Israel. That is my personal bias insofar as teh two 'personality traits' go of the citizens I had encounters with.

 

It is too much to really explain in one sitting. One anecdote I like is that I had a very good relationship with a businessman in Syria (i even helped him pay his taxes by serving in his escort team to the minister of finance on my off hours). When i first met him I had tea and shawarma in his shop while his employees showed me the things I may be interested in purchasing. I was simply a customer, and a local Syrian arab was also treated this way. The culture is amazing and a much better experience as a 'consumer' vs what I experienced in new york or l.a. as a for instance. We got along very well and were friends for years. I spent a weekend in Eilat, on the Red Sea in southern Israel at a resort on a vacation from my duties in the interest of Canada, and jsut by way of example, my wife was looking at a black raincoat as the weather had turned, but we didn't look rich and we didnt' speak Yiddish. The shopkeeper literally yanked the coat out of my wifes hands and told her she could only touch the merchandise she was going to buy, but then handed that rain coat to an affluent Israeli citizen who spoke the language.  it is just one little anecdote, but when it comes to bias I would rather sit in a Sooke in Damascus and have tea over a hubbly bubbly than shop in Israel any day of the week. 

 

Anyways, no harm no foul, i wasn't offended. 

 

Sorry, bud, but we speak Hebrew in Israel, not Yiddish . But I totally know what you are talking about as far as your experience is concerned - yes, there are assholes like that. If it's any consolation - when I just moved to Israel from Ukraine and before I learned the language, I had similar experience even though I'm Jewish myself. So, it's not because you weren't Jewish, it's just because that particular guy was an asshole in general.

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

According to the Iranian Foreign Minister, there could be “Preemptive Measures” taken by the Axis of Resistance against Israel in the coming hours; the Axis of Resistance includes Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah as well as any Anti-Western or Anti-Israeli Militia Groups across the Middle East which are under their Control.

 

 

That would be unfortunate for the people of Iran, but on a longer timeline, the outcome of that may be the best thing for the region for a peaceful future. I wouldn't want to test that theory though, hopefully they stay on the sidelines.

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Sorry, bud, but we speak Hebrew in Israel, not Yiddish . But I totally know what you are talking about as far as your experience is concerned - yes, there are assholes like that. If it's any consolation - when I just moved to Israel from Ukraine and before I learned the language, I had similar experience even though I'm Jewish myself. So, it's not because you weren't Jewish, it's just because that particular guy was an asshole in general.

haha, my bad...in Arabic the terminology was 'yiddish' as in "no yiddish writing or money is allowed in Syria" by order of the dictator Al Assad. 

 

I had to take pains to remove any hebrew markings or currency from my possession any time i moved between the two states, but I wasn't in any trouble for having Syrian Pounds on me, odd.

[Sharpshooter]

Sources within the Israeli Defense Force have reportedly told the Jerusalem Post, that one of the Primary Reasons for the Delayed Invasion of the Gaza Strip has been the Increasing Worry that Hezbollah will Join the War soon after the Invasion does begin, with IDF Northern Command making sure that Forces along the Lebanese Border are prepared for an Major Outbreak of Hostilities which is claimed to now be almost Complete.

[RomanPer]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

According to the Iranian Foreign Minister, there could be “Preemptive Measures” taken by the Axis of Resistance against Israel in the coming hours; the Axis of Resistance includes Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah as well as any Anti-Western or Anti-Israeli Militia Groups across the Middle East which are under their Control.

 

 

 

Yeah, yeah, we've heard that before. It's like that guy who is afraid to join a fight and acts strong behind his friends, fully aware that they will hold him back.

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

haha, my bad...in Arabic the terminology was 'yiddish' as in "no yiddish writing or money is allowed in Syria" by order of the dictator Al Assad. 

 

"Yiddish" is the language of Ashkenazi Jews that originated in Germany and is actually very similar to German as far as pronunciation of many words is concerned. It just uses different alphabet. Hebrew as a language was re-born in the early 20th century and is based on ancient Hebrew and Aramaic languages. Torah is written in ancient Hebrew and there are quite a few words in it that are not in use in modern day Hebrew language.

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Yeah, yeah, we've heard that before. It's like that guy who is afraid to join a fight and acts strong behind his friends, fully aware that they will hold him back.

speaking of my personal bias: I feel Iran has to be toppled and I kind of wish it was done 8 years ago. I don't think Iran would have much impact, or let us say this instead: it would have the same impact it has had in all the arab/israeli conflicts of the past 75 years: that is to say they will lose, only this time they may lose at home ice. 

[RomanPer]

Just now, Optimist Prime said:

speaking of my personal bias: I feel Iran has to be toppled and I kind of wish it was done 8 years ago. I don't think Iran would have much impact, or let us say this instead: it would have the same impact it has had in all the arab/israeli conflicts of the past 75 years: that is to say they will lose, only this time they may lose at home ice. 

 

If both regimes in Teheran and Moscow are removed, you would be surprised how many "hot zones" around the world would cool down almost immediately.

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Optimist Prime]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

If both regimes in Teheran and Moscow are removed, you would be surprised how many "hot zones" around the world would cool down almost immediately.

agreed, only that PUtin has a nuclear arsenal. I am not afraid of him using it, I am afraid of any authorities losing control of it, that is the trick: how to remove putin from power and install a democratic government in Russia without arming gangs and warlords with nukes. It is a tricky situation indeed and leaves me thinking up until two years ago almost that pUtin was the best option of Russia. Now I am not so sure.

[Playoff Beered]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

Hamas is a P.I.T.A. (pain the in the A**) I am hopeful they can be stripped out of Gaza and some peace for the good people of Gaza can take root.

 

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

The good people of Gaza had no peace even before Hamas. ........

 

1 hour ago, Playoff Beered said:

With posts like this it makes it seem that you believe all this is only Israel's fault.

 

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

Really . Not sure why you would post this.  Throughout this thread i have consistently posted that it is my opinion that both sides are to blame for this conflict.      

 

Because before the edit it looked like this, and as a stand alone comment it infers that Hamas only exists because of Isreal, therefore everything is Isreal's fault, but I'm glad you cleared that up.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Sharpshooter]

Just an update about the Iron Beam laser from a day or two ago. 
 

 

[Sharpshooter]

Hamas’s march to Armageddon
 

Iran and Hamas pried Pandora’s Box wide open on Oct. 7 by unleashing a heinous wave of rocket attacks and assaults on Israeli cities and villages.

 

This was likely done with Russian President Vladimir Putin’s tacit approval, if not direction and planning. What had been chiefly a localized threat to Jerusalem – Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syrian and Iranian troops along the Golan Heights – is now an existential threat to the state of Israel on a regional and global scale. 
 

Hamas’s goal, stated in its founding covenant, is the destruction of Israel, and its inexorable pursuit of an Israeli Armageddon must now be taken at face value by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his national unity government. Especially after the reign of terror Mohammed Deif, Hamas’s military commander, unleashed in Kfar Aza, Sderotand at a music festival on a scale that the Jewish people had not witnessed since the end of the Holocaust. 

 

More in the link:

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4256685-hamass-march-to-armageddon/