Ilunga Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Bibi lost a brother who was killed in the IDF raid on Entebbe Uganda which brought over 120 Israeli captives back home. I don't know the internal politics of Israel and don't know what he is accused of. If we try to use what passes as norms to us, here in our safety, to the Jewish experience we are wrong. The Jews in Israel know full well what happens if they lose this war or misplace assurances by others of a 2 state solution. I sympathize with the Palestinian people and their desire for a homeland. Bottom line is that modern Israel will never be their homeland again. The vast majority have never lived in what was their homeland in 1948. The world owes the Jews a homeland. If the Palestinians cannot return then it becomes the worlds responsibility to create a homeland instead of manipulating their suffering to political ends. The West Bank is trying to craft a peaceful transition but many anti Israel forces work against that. Gaza will be destroyed and I won't blame Israel for that. Destroy Hamas and is necessary destroy Hezbollah. Stop teaching the hate of Jews and accept the failure of leadership in the Arab world to craft a peaceful existence for Palestinians. Netanyahu is the trump, PO1135809, of this middle east. Obeying the laws of a society and maintaining its democratic systems are the responsibility of all politicians of any country. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-corruption-and-autocracy-nexus-the-case-of-king-bibi/ It is remarkable how he is copying the trump template. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 8 hours ago, Provost said: Did you even bother to Google this guy? He is by all accounts a complete fraud and scam artist. He made up a political party on the internet that doesn’t exist in reality and appointed himself leader. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudar_Zahran I did not. He may be fraudulent - but aren't most in politics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Morgan is such a clown and clearly in over his head 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Playoff Beered said: BLOWBACK: HOW ISRAEL WENT FROM HELPING CREATE HAMAS TO BOMBING IT https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ This is a few years old, so misses the recent events where Netenyahu literally does this again. Interesting how much vitriol was thrown my way earlier in the thread for pointing this same stuff out. Not to say Hamas were the good guys… but that they were a tool of Israeli foreign and domestic policy. Hamas has been too weak and ineffective to effectively counter the Palestinian Authority that the Israeli government sees as the real danger. Israeli policy in recent years has been to again prop up Hamas. Senior government officials have literally called it an “asset”. Their true aim is to keep things chaotic to avoid ever having to face a final solution for Palestinian statehood. I posted links from Israeli media from before saying exactly this. I am happy that we are all learning more as this thread goes along and that helps not just think of it as a black and white issue with a good guy and a bad guy. Politicians are shitty all over the world and do shitty things to stay in power. Netenyahu was happy with a few Israelis being killed every once in a while as long as it suited his political aims and it helped avoid the establishment of a Palestinian state. A peaceful Israel quickly starts becoming progressive, and they don’t vote in corrupt ultra right wing governments. Edited October 17, 2023 by Provost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Isn’t Amanpour the same lady who spent the better part of a year pumping the US Military Industrial Complex on CNN trying to convince everyone that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? I did a quick search and was unable to find any evidence to back up this claim. Maybe you could post some? I did find this interview she did with Hans Blix (the guy who was tasked with actually finding the WMDs) but it doesn't appear to me that she is pushing the narrative that Iraq had them.... https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/publications/magazines/bulletin/bull46-1/46102096971.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 56 minutes ago, Heretic said: I did not. He may be fraudulent - but aren't most in politics? They are, but this guy isn’t even in politics. He made up a party of one and appointed himself Secretary General of it. Go check out his “party” website. He runs a shitty Wordpress site and a YouTube channel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 7 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: He was invited and spoke at Brussels, sat beside the Israeli delegate. EU gave him a seat, he is Palestinian. In a world where political opinion can be a death sentence; that he spoke was brave. The average person puts up with the community they were born in to. He is trying to make it better. Google Fox News smart alec. Everything we hear is true! Isn't it? Saleh al-Arouri said no one but IDF were targeted last weekend. Mahmoud Abbas rejects harm to civilians on either side. They are honest guys, right? Well I literally provided you a link (not Fox News) and you didn’t want to read it. He didn’t speak in front of the EU, he was invited by a small conference to speak and lies about it. The EU didn’t “give him a seat”. He is some dude who has said that if the West and Israel depose the King of Jordan and install him in charge (despite not having ANY support or political party actually in Jordan or Palestine), he will be friendly to them and solve Israel’s problem by making Jordan the Palestinian state. He is a crackpot who doesn’t even have anything to do with Palestine. He was born in Jordan and wants to rule Palestine. The only reason he has gotten any attention is that he will say what people want him to say. If you want to just rant and find random things that confirm to your preconceived feelings, stick your fingers in your ears and lash out when confronted with contrary information… fine. Don’t pretend you are interested in discourse or intellectual honesty. Here are some Israeli links about this guy in case anyone is interested in learning stuff… unlike you apparently. http://judeanrose.blogspot.com/2018/09/mudar-zahran-plays-hide-israeli-flag_8.html?m=1 https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-downfall-of-a-jordanian-option-1001207337 https://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2017/09/mudar-zahran-and-right-wing-jewish.html?m=1 https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/mudar-zahran-banned-from-entering-israel-601855 https://www.newsweek.com/us-base-germany-threat-alert-was-result-feud-between-two-jordanian-activists-1485172 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Provost said: Well I literally provided you a link (not Fox News) and you didn’t want to read it. He didn’t speak in front of the EU, he was invited by a small conference to speak and lies about it. The EU didn’t “give him a seat”. He is some dude who has said that if the West and Israel depose the King of Jordan and install him in charge (despite not having ANY support or political party actually in Jordan or Palestine), he will be friendly to them and solve Israel’s problem by making Jordan the Palestinian state. He is a crackpot who doesn’t even have anything to do with Palestine. He was born in Jordan and wants to rule Palestine. The only reason he has gotten any attention is that he will say what people want him to say. If you want to just rant and find random things that confirm to your preconceived feelings, stick your fingers in your ears and lash out when confronted with contrary information… fine. Don’t pretend you are interested in discourse or intellectual honesty. Here are some Israeli links about this guy in case anyone is interested in learning stuff… unlike you apparently. http://judeanrose.blogspot.com/2018/09/mudar-zahran-plays-hide-israeli-flag_8.html?m=1 https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-downfall-of-a-jordanian-option-1001207337 https://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2017/09/mudar-zahran-and-right-wing-jewish.html?m=1 https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/mudar-zahran-banned-from-entering-israel-601855 https://www.newsweek.com/us-base-germany-threat-alert-was-result-feud-between-two-jordanian-activists-1485172 The European Union will be airlifting aid in to Gaza. It sounds like Borrell is very concerned with the Israeli response to Gaza and the killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: The European Union will be airlifting aid in to Gaza. It sounds like Borrell is very concerned with the Israeli response to Gaza and the killing. I'm still struggling to see what choice Israel has. Hamas has to be eliminated for everyone's sake including Palestinians. How do you eliminate something like Hamas, or at least drive it down to a shell of what it was, without at least a brief occupation and ground invasion? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I'm still struggling to see what choice Israel has. Hamas has to be eliminated for everyone's sake including Palestinians. How do you eliminate something like Hamas, or at least drive it down to a shell of what it was, without at least a brief occupation and ground invasion? I think if I could answer that question for you I would win Nobel Peace prize. But I do believe there has to be people above my pay grade that can potentially become candidates for the Nobel Peace prize and solve this problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I'm still struggling to see what choice Israel has. Hamas has to be eliminated for everyone's sake including Palestinians. How do you eliminate something like Hamas, or at least drive it down to a shell of what it was, without at least a brief occupation and ground invasion? There’s no point asking him. This is the problem with Western idealists - they believe that they have solution to everything and it’s all simple. Zelensky’s first pitch as the President of Ukraine was also that he can have peace with Russia, “we just need to stop shooting”. Look how that worked out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/15/which-countries-have-criticised-israeli-attacks-on-gaza https://apnews.com/article/colombia-israel-petro-suspend-defense-exports-a92effbb531ea4631d25a8c1d32ede28 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/former-bolivian-president-evo-morales-criticizes-bolivia-israel-for-situation-in-gaza/3011174 Earlier this year https://www.timesofisrael.com/brazil-argentina-chile-and-mexico-jointly-condemn-israeli-settlement-announcements/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/global-condemnations-of-israel-pour-in-over-planned-outpost-legalizations/ Edited October 17, 2023 by Coconuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, RomanPer said: There’s no point asking him. This is the problem with Western idealists - they believe that they have solution to everything and it’s all simple. Zelensky’s first pitch as the President of Ukraine was also that he can have peace with Russia, “we just need to stop shooting”. Look how that worked out. I think sometimes it's worth listening to others and in your case you should do that a lot more. This was my response to Bob. As for your comment about VZ it almost shows me how little you really actually do know. VZ did make a lot of comments and campaigned about peace. However, when he was elected, he certainly did not go in that direction whatsoever. I get it though you know more... You have a family member in Ukraine and family in Israel, so between the two countries there's about 50 million people and you know five or six of them and they are nothing but the truth. 29 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: I think if I could answer that question for you I would win Nobel Peace prize. But I do believe there has to be people above my pay grade that can potentially become candidates for the Nobel Peace prize and solve this problem. Edited October 17, 2023 by Ryan Strome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, Coconuts said: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/15/which-countries-have-criticised-israeli-attacks-on-gaza https://apnews.com/article/colombia-israel-petro-suspend-defense-exports-a92effbb531ea4631d25a8c1d32ede28 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/former-bolivian-president-evo-morales-criticizes-bolivia-israel-for-situation-in-gaza/3011174 Earlier this year https://www.timesofisrael.com/brazil-argentina-chile-and-mexico-jointly-condemn-israeli-settlement-announcements/ Most of the world has known has been trying to advocate for justice since 1948. Every year, since 1948, there has been a UN resolution to recognize Palestinians right to return to their homes it’s really just western countries on the wrong side of history on this one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2272589892001 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Journalists shown footage recorded by cell phones, gopro, surveillance cameras etc. https://abcnews.go.com/International/horror-israeli-authorities-show-footage-hamas-atrocities-reporters-notebook/story?id=104015431 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: Journalists shown footage recorded by cell phones, gopro, surveillance cameras etc. https://abcnews.go.com/International/horror-israeli-authorities-show-footage-hamas-atrocities-reporters-notebook/story?id=104015431 You know what is beginning to bug me is we are getting no verifiable proof of the very serious accusations that were made. All we are getting is secondary proof. I heard from a person who heard from a person. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said: You know what is beginning to bug me is we are getting no verifiable proof of the very serious accusations that were made. All we are getting is secondary proof. I heard from a person who heard from a person. Are you talking just in general or this particular example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Just sharing a post from a guy on LinkedIn (He lives in Toronto): ------------------------------------------------------ Zach Ronski Co-Founder at InHouse Creative, CEO of The Journey, Community Builder, The Peaks 2022 Emerging Leader Co-Founder at InHouse Creative, CEO of The Journey, Community Builder, The Peaks 2022 Emerging Leader 1d • 1d • Most Jews do not find pleasure in the suffering and loss of innocent Arab lives, just as the majority of Arabs do not relish harm coming to Jews. In both communities, the prevailing emotion is one of empathy and sorrow. Let's address the root issues and face the truth: The ongoing tensions and violence in the region are a result of complex factors. This past week's events have undeniably worsened the situation, but this conflict is a culmination of years, even generations, of suffering and pain. Families have been displaced, homes destroyed, and lives shattered. The humanitarian cost is immeasurable. No problem, especially one as deeply rooted as this conflict gets solved without good communication. It's not just about talking; it's about listening, understanding, and finding common ground and most importantly not demonizing innocence. Both our people have been demonizing each other for years, perpetuating a cycle of mistrust and division. When Jews and Arabs partner up, magic happens, take it from me. That's why we're launching a Telegram group, bringing together Jewish and Muslim business leaders. Here's the catch, you can only join if you bring a counterpart! It's a space where individuals from diverse backgrounds can come together to 'shmooze' (chat) and 'halqa' (converse) — an opportunity to build connections, share experiences, and collaborate in ways that transcend boundaries and most importantly understand how much we have in common. This initiative is a step toward a more harmonious coexistence and a powerful symbol of unity in the face of division. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, RomanPer said: There’s no point asking him. This is the problem with Western idealists - they believe that they have solution to everything and it’s all simple. yeah, everyone else's problems look so simple don't they? I mean, why doesn't Canada just fix all the issues with discrimination against First Nations people? 42 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Zelensky’s first pitch as the President of Ukraine was also that he can have peace with Russia, “we just need to stop shooting”. Look how that worked out. We still see people in North America supporting Putin. It's insane. Edited October 17, 2023 by Bob Long 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: this might be the best and most useful interview I've seen so far. It really shows you the mentality of Hamas and why it needs to go. Just starting to understand the severity? wtf? what did they think they were doing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: Are you talking just in general or this particular example? In general. So from the start of the terrorist operation we heard claims of beheaded babies, rape, etc. Like the individual in the video with PM that I posted He's not insinuating It's not true but would like to see proof. This is like the Iraq war all over again in my opinion. Just believe what we are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Ayman Nofal, known as Abu Ahmad, was a member of the general military council and commander of the central command in Al-Qassam Brigades. He is now dead in an Israeli raid (airstrike) inside Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: In general. So from the start of the terrorist operation we heard claims of beheaded babies, rape, etc. Like the individual in the video with PM that I posted He's not insinuating It's not true but would like to see proof. This is like the Iraq war all over again in my opinion. Just believe what we are saying. we really need something like an AI watermark, or some sort of verifiable method, for information now. So many people willing to push fake crap it just hurts the people we need to try to help. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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