Hamas attacking Israel

[Provost]

47 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I don't doubt is getting closer to acknowledging. Thank you!

 

It will get better as all illegal activities get identified, brought to justice. Israeli and Hamas. 

 

Among the atrocities were crowds of rave attendee's who tried to hide in sheltered bunkers. Crammed full, holding roughly thirty each. A grenades thrown in one, one even thrown back out. And mowing down all thirtyish partiers hiding away. These were among live camera footage from phones. Also eye witness accounts of one or two who survived playing dead. Everyone saw the paragliders swooping in with automatic weapons.

I have never not acknowledged it. 

You are the one that seems to be selectively outraged about what murders bother you and what are the fun kind you can get behind.

I see yet again, you minimize Israeli atrocities.  This particular time just be entirely deleting parts of my post that are inconvenient to the narrative in your head.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Sharpshooter
Be civil please.

[RomanPer]

 

 

[RupertKBD]

37 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

My friend, I would agree, we have a differing view of complicit.  And we also have a differing view of the mainstream media.  After the war ended, I was very upset about the whole thing.  The Bush family, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney.  They were by far the worst of the bunch.  Total warmongers.  But I digress.  Don't want to go any farther with this and derail the thread.  And I just want you to know that it's nothing personal against you, so I am sorry if my posts were out of hand.  The Gulf war is not a topic I like to talk about, and it brings alot of anger to me...

 

I understand your anger.....and I share it... However, if that anger is directed at the mainstream media, I think it's misdirected.....

 

Nothing personal from me either. As we said earlier: Just a disagreement.

[Elias Pettersson]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

 

they'd settle for just being able to move back within the borders of the state they were forcibly removed from

 

if israel isn't going to let people do that, while they openly invite europeans/north americans to move to israel by "birthright", the state will experience ongoing violent resistance. 

 

israel expecting otherwise is a fantasy as well. 

 

if we have any shred of humanity, we'd back up the people who just want to go back to the villages and towns that they were chased out of, not the criminals that chased them out. the rest of the world understands this, its really just western countries that dont. 

 

I made a case for compensation?  Even for families as many / most would be deceased. Which also covers the sense of apology & acknowledgment that sets a ground rule for co-existance. Better if the can move back, which would be much harder to project? It would be a great outcome.

 

Surrounding WWII when it first happened; this was amongst hundreds of similar, of which many were substantially more egregious, examples of cultures being dispossessed from their land. Including Jews of course, who of course behaved as they had been treated by others unfortunately.

 

Yet Israel can afford it & it would go a long way. 

[Canuck Surfer]

34 minutes ago, Provost said:

I have never not acknowledged it. 

You are the one that seems to be selectively outraged about what murders bother you and what are the fun kind you can get behind.

I see yet again, you minimize Israeli atrocities.  This particular time just be entirely deleting parts of my post that are inconvenient to the narrative in your head.

 

 

Bullcookies.

 

I can produce ten, fifteen, probably twenty posts asking to call Israel to task.  And as the larger more powerful nation suggested they need to do so to start any process. I also called for their restraint. 

 

My observation is their misdeeds remain an emotional point for you.  Justifiably so.  Yet you continued to raise their activities as an objection every time when its time to call out Hamas. Rule of law for both sides, acknowledgement and reparations.  Look at the link I provided on the 1000+ hostages released by Israel in 2014. It also pinpoints the crimes they were convicted for. Hamas has long used guerilla terror based activities.   

 

@Sharpshooter just taking mention of the third, or 4th disparaging comment I am receiving, such as 'you can read slowly and move your lips while you are reading.'  From Provost. 
 

 

[Sharpshooter]

FURTHER PERSONAL ATTACKS OR DISRESPECTFUL PERSONAL REPLIES/REMARKS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. 

 

IF ANYONE CANT BE CIVIL IN THIS THREAD, THEY WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES. 
 

 

[Provost]

PM sent

Edited October 17, 2023 by Provost

[CanuteCanuck]

On 10/9/2023 at 8:37 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

@RomanPer Looks like the police did show up. However they actually arrested the guy who was protesting the protesters…

 

 

Should have been offering plane tickets for free to those that are so dedicated to the struggles of their choice. People here are living a life separated from mid east, Himalayan territorial disputes, etc.etc.etc. To hear people protest like that in a country that has nothing to do with their conflict makes you wonder why they are here. To cowardly to do what they want everyone else to do for them perhaps.

 If you have such a strong belief you wouldn't be sitting so far away cowardly courage  

 

[RupertKBD]

19 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

FURTHER PERSONAL ATTACKS OR DISRESPECTFUL PERSONAL REPLIES/REMARKS WILL NO BE TOLERATED. 

 

IF ANYONE CANT BE CIVIL IN THIS THREAD, THEY WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES. 

 

[Playoff Beered]

3 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

The only bomb that would cause this type of carnage would be laser guided 1000-2000 lb bomb dropped from a plane.
 

The only way a grad or katyusha type of rocket killing this many people would be if this place was used as a very very large explosive storage facility.

 

Badr 3 rocket carries a warhead weighing between 300 kg and 400 kg (661 pounds to 882 pounds)

 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/irans-rockets-palestinian-groups

[I.Am.Ironman]

On 10/16/2023 at 1:54 PM, PhillipBlunt said:

You know shit's serious when there's a sniper in the thread.

 

Fun fact of the day... ^^ he is a BC boy

[moosehead]

2 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

FURTHER PERSONAL ATTACKS OR DISRESPECTFUL PERSONAL REPLIES/REMARKS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. 

 

IF ANYONE CANT BE CIVIL IN THIS THREAD, THEY WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES. 
 

 

 

I have respect for all opinions in this thread . We all come from a  different place / experience so of course we have a wide variety of opinions on this conflict.  I very much appreciate all the diverse opinions. I am learning alot from this discussion and i thank all the posters no matter their personal opinion. 

 

We all agree this region needs peace.  We just disagree a bit on the path forward.    We are probably much closer in opinion than we all realize.

 

Take care and hug your family tonight.  We won the lottery getting to live in this great peaceful tolerant country - CANADA. 

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

 

I have respect for all opinions in this thread . We all come from a  different place / experience so of course we have a wide variety of opinions on this conflict.  I very much appreciate all the diverse opinions. I am learning alot from this discussion and i thank all the posters no matter their personal opinion. 

 

We all agree this region needs peace.  We just disagree a bit on the path forward.    We are probably much closer in opinion than we all realize.

 

Take care and hug your family tonight.  We won the lottery getting to live in this great peaceful tolerant country - CANADA. 

 

 

Alf learned that a lot too. I appreciate multiple perspectives, even though I believe some are based in bias. 

[Optimist Prime]

7 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

I have respect for all opinions in this thread . We all come from a  different place / experience so of course we have a wide variety of opinions on this conflict.  I very much appreciate all the diverse opinions. I am learning alot from this discussion and i thank all the posters no matter their personal opinion. 

 

We all agree this region needs peace.  We just disagree a bit on the path forward.    We are probably much closer in opinion than we all realize.

 

Take care and hug your family tonight.  We won the lottery getting to live in this great peaceful tolerant country - CANADA. 

 

 

True. Thank you.

 

I always think of it like this: 

 

world political spectrum:

LEFT<------------------------------------------------------------------------Center---------------------------------------------------------------------->RIGHT

 

 

Canadian Political Spectrum
LEFT<-----------------Center--------------->RIGHT

[Provost]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

How much time does it take to come up with a plausible story? 

 

There are so many videos going around that all clearly show different events, and we have no idea when and where they were taken.

 

The initial videos the Israeli Twitter account posted to blame Hamas were shown to be made up and didn’t even cover the timeframe of the attack, and were deleted.

 

The JDF and Israeli government have said it was an errant Hamas rocket and also a purposeful attack by a different group the Islamic Jihad to make Israel look bad.  They have said there is “proof”.  It would have to be pretty compelling after several instances already of them putting out fake information that was later shown to be false.

 

On the other side there are videos which are clearly advanced guided bomb attacks, but they could be any time and location.  We already know Israel is bombing the area as they have told us they are.  
 

The one Optimist posted as an example showed a Qassam rocket salvo, and on the other side of the frame a little later on what was clearly an explosion those rockets aren’t capable of creating was a missile or bomb strike.  Different people say it was spliced and others that it was proof of the “errant rocket” theory… depending on their biases.

 

This one for example is 100% for sure an advanced high explosive advanced bomb and not a rocket.  We just don’t know if it is showing another of the hundreds or thousands that have already been dropped on Gaza that both sides agree is happening.

 

https://x.com/qudsn/status/1714335703117570261?s=20

 

I don’t know if any evidence from a believable 3rd party will come out.  

Israel and the U.S. have a VERY vested interest in coming up with an alternative theory than it being part of the massive bombing campaign that they have been undertaking for a week.

 

It is weird because we already have many clear independently verified videos of large scale civilian casualties, both in the North that Israel warned needed to be evacuated, and in the South where folks had evacuated to.  This is the one that has sparked global riots and a likely expansion of the conflict.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Provost

[Provost]

1 hour ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

 

Fun fact of the day... ^^ he is a BC boy

A high school buddy of mine (also from BC) was in that movie and even that scene in the tower.  He had a big part, but they almost completely cut him out down to just a few scenes.

 

When Barry Pepper yells “Parker get out!” And you see a head just before the explosion, that is him.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

How much time does it take to come up with a plausible story? 

 

There are so many videos going around that all clearly show different events, and we have no idea when and where they were taken.

 

The initial videos the Israeli Twitter account posted to blame Hamas were shown to be made up and didn’t even cover the timeframe of the attack, and were deleted.

 

The JDF and Israeli government have said it was an errant Hamas rocket and also a purposeful attack to make Israel look bad.  They have said there is “proof”.

 

On the other side there are videos which are clearly advanced guided bomb attacks, but they could be any time and location.  We already know Israel is bombing the area as they have told us they are.  
 

The one Optimist posted as an example showed a Qassam rocket salvo, and on the other side of the frame a little later on what was clearly an explosion those rockets aren’t capable of creating was a missile or bomb strike.  Different people say it was spliced and others that it was proof of the “errant rocket” theory… depending on their biases.

 

I don’t know if any evidence from a believable 3rd party will come out.  

Israel and the U.S. have a VERY vested interest in coming up with an alternative theory than it being part of the massive bombing campaign that they have been undertaking for a week.

 

It is weird because we already have many clear independently verified videos of large scale civilian casualties, both in the North that Israel warned needed to be evacuated, and in the South where folks had evacuated to.  This is the one that has sparked global riots and a likely expansion of the conflict.

Why would Israel target a hospital? Why would Hamas launch missiles from on top a hospital? 
Really does it matter who’s responsible? The hospital got blown up and that’s terrible. Many innocent people are suffering. That’s terrible. 
 

Does any of this terrible stuff happening to the innocent people if Gaza be going on if Hamas didn’t attack those innocent people in Israel 10 days ago?  


 

[moosehead]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Why would Israel target a hospital? Why would Hamas launch missiles from on top a hospital? 
Really does it matter who’s responsible? The hospital got blown up and that’s terrible. Many innocent people are suffering. That’s terrible. 
 

Does any of this terrible stuff happening to the innocent people if Gaza be going on if Hamas didn’t attack those innocent people in Israel 10 days ago?  


 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Yup. Hamas was trying to get back at Israel for things done before with their attacks on innocent people 10 days ago. They just made things worse. 

[Provost]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Why would Israel target a hospital? Why would Hamas launch missiles from on top a hospital? 
Really does it matter who’s responsible? The hospital got blown up and that’s terrible. Many innocent people are suffering. That’s terrible. 
 

Does any of this terrible stuff happening to the innocent people if Gaza be going on if Hamas didn’t attack those innocent people in Israel 10 days ago?  


 

No one has suggested Hamas was firing rockets from the top of the hospital.

 

Israel has said repeatedly it plans to bomb indiscriminately all around northern Gaza (and it has been) and that civilians were given a deadline of a couple of days ago to leave before the bombing expanded.  There is also the real likelihood that they didn’t mean to.  If you drop thousands of bombs, some of them don’t hit exactly where you intended.

 

It absolutely matters who is responsible.  If there isn’t clear 100% indisputable evidence that provides proof Israel didn’t do it, you are probably looking at an expanded regional conflict.  It is a spark that has turned embers of anger from their populations in surrounding countries into flames. 
 

That matters for everyone.  Maybe it was inevitable anyways, but this may be posted to as the triggering event.

 

Also, this “terrible stuff” has been happening to the people of Gaza for several decades.  Just slow enough that you haven’t noticed or cared before the last week.  You just posted that you don’t care if Israel just bombed a hospital because it is the fault of Hamas anyways… try to unpack that a little.

 

All your posts seem to indicate you think this conflict started a week ago.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Provost

[Alflives]

Just now, Provost said:

No one has suggested Hamas was firing rockets from the top of the hospital.

 

Israel has said repeatedly it plans to bomb indiscriminately all around northern Gaza (and it has been) and that civilians were given a deadline of a couple of days ago to leave before the bombing expanded.  There is also the real likelihood that they didn’t mean to.  If you drop thousands of bombs, some of them don’t hit exactly where you intended.

 

It absolutely matter who is responsible.  If there isn’t clear 100% indisputable evidence that provides proof Israel didn’t do it, you are probably looking at an expanded regional conflict.  It is a spark that has turned embers of anger from their populations in surrounding countries into flames. 
 

That matters for everyone.

What does Israel gain from doing that? What does Hamas gain? 

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What does Israel gain from doing that? What does Hamas gain? 

 

Both sides gain from terror, destruction and destabilization in the region. 

[Alflives]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

Both sides gain from terror, destruction and destabilization in the region. 

And the innocent People suffer. This is so bad. Stupid Hamas for starting this and stupid IDF for doing what they’re doing now. 

[Optimist Prime]

11 minutes ago, Provost said:

If there isn’t clear 100% indisputable evidence that provides proof Israel didn’t do it, you are probably looking at an expanded regional conflict.

So we agree Hamas is the benefactor of that hospital being blown up. 

 

Edited to highlight what I mean specifically. Hamas was begging for more Arab nations to join in wiping Israel off the earth when they attacked 12 days ago. If the hospital blowing up secures that, Hamas gets a big boost from Iran and their proxies.