Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

Terrible. Air targets in the vicinity are still going off.   

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

This is just before & just Netanyahu's renaissance; 

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/02/1102728946/a-look-at-jewish-extremism-in-israel

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/18/far-right-israelis-shut-down-jerusalems-old-city-with-march

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/4/5/israeli-forces-carry-out-violent-raid-at-al-aqsa-mosque

 

A look at history of Palestinian extremism in Jerusalem;

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936–1939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine

 

This battle has been violent long before today's times. The almost exact reverse of what is happening today happened in the 1920's & 1930's.  

[Sharpshooter]

Perhaps a little more evidence. 
 

 

[WeneedLumme]

9 hours ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

 

I deleted my post in about 30 seconds after looking at the email address attached to the fb page, but hello to you too

 

If you believed the ridiculous content of that nonsense you posted for even 30 seconds, it says something about your ability to think.

[moosehead]

[bishopshodan]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I know that you really wanted the IDF to be at fault but your side will have to take the L on this one...

 

I hope going forward people dont have sides.

 

Both sides are taking 'L's.

The civilians on both sides are the real losers. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I hope going forward people dont have sides.

 

Both sides are taking 'L's.

The civilians on both sides are the real losers. 

Didn’t Hamas say the people they took hostage were prisoners of war and not innocent civilians? 

[bishopshodan]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Didn’t Hamas say the people they took hostage were prisoners of war and not innocent civilians? 

 

Why you asking me?

 

[Provost]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I still don’t know what happened, I am not going to jump the jumping to conclusions bandwagon based on a press briefing by the IDF.

 

The one picture I have seen of the courtyard lends itself to not being a full on airstrike, another video that CNN says it has verified seems to point towards it being an airstrike.

 

I have posted repeatedly that those rockets are effectively useless, inaccurate and probably kill more people who launch them than targets in Israel.  The misfire theory is plausible in that way.  I have no idea if the explanation of leftover propellant causing the explosion is valid or not.  Certainly the warheads they carry aren’t capable of doing that.

 

This particular bit of “evidence” actually makes me doubt things more than confirms it.  Two unverified Arabic voices calmly describing every detail and assigning blame, outlining all the evidence, giving literal directions to places, repeating the key points over and over again.  It is way too pat and tidy.  Coming from a source that couldn’t intercept communications from a thousand terrorists spending months planning an attack.  It reads like it was tailored for a 3rd party and not two people conversing.

 

As I said before, what this incident matters for is how the reaction in the rest of the region plays out.  We already know many civilians have been killed in the bombing campaign.  The WHO independently reported that the Rafah crossing has been bombed repeatedly in the last few days.

 

It is this particular one bombing in the thousands that inflamed the rest of the region over the tipping point.

 

I hope that Hamas exaggerated the death toll here.  Aside from the fact that would mean less people died, this has also illustrated a de facto red line for Israel’s response.  Before they have even  fully ramped up their planned escalation and ground offensive, they have a trial balloon for how much the region and world is going to tolerate.  The rhetoric has been “we are going to eradicate Hamas and it doesn’t matter what the collateral death toll is”.

 

Hopefully this slow rolls them a little at the very least.

 

Of course it could do the opposite, and the ball started rolling for a wider conflict.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Provost

[Optimist Prime]

Are we still believing there were 500 people in those 12 cars in the parking lot?

[bishopshodan]

Didn't Biden say the hospital was hit when he met Bibi, followed up with that it was hit by 'the other team'?

 

I mean , maybe he saw pictures?       

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Are we still believing there were 500 people in those 12 cars in the parking lot?

We have seen videos for days of crammed courtyard and hallways of hospitals, so yes that hospital complex and grounds would have been filled with thousands of people.

 

Gaza residents are flooding to hospitals and aid agency compounds as they see them as less likely to be bombed.

 

Try to provide actual meaningful contributions to the discussion rather that trite little leading snipes.

[Coconuts]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

I'll be interested to read how they plan on allocating this 

[Provost]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'll be interested to read how they plan on allocating this 

They can’t even agree on funding themselves, and one arm of their government is shut down trying to find a speaker so they can pass spending bills necessary to pay their soldiers.

 

The only spending Biden is authorized for is to support Israel.  He can’t even keep paying his own soldiers in less than a month.

 

This is about as good an insight into how linked the US and Israel are.

[Playoff Beered]

10 hours ago, Guntrix said:

Sure thing! I'll insert the post (containing the picture) you quoted:

 

 

Eagerly waiting for the incoming mental gymnastics!

 

(in case you haven't figured it out, the picture of the blast has been confirmed by both the BBC and Al Jazeera).

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Playoff Beered]

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

There is no one in this thread who said the bombing of the hospital didn't happen.  I just want to make sure that is on the record...

 

If the rocket was intercepted and a piece fell off and landed on the parking lot, which the evidence from the daylight pictures now seems to show, then the IDF is not directly responsible for the bombing.  As a matter of fact, you can't even call it a bombing if that is what happened.  100% it was an accident...

 

No, it was a war crime committed by Hamas or their even more radical friends Islamic jihad.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[RomanPer]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

I gave up trying to prove anything to these individuals long time ago. No matter what it is, they will always turn it upside down and claim it's Israel's fault. And after that they will wave "we are not antisemites, we are anti Israel" flag.

[Bob Long]

36 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Didn't Biden say the hospital was hit when he met Bibi, followed up with that it was hit by 'the other team'?

 

I mean , maybe he saw pictures?       

 

Sounds like the US has info from multiple sources including their own satellite data.

 

Not sure it matters tho. Those that want to blame Israel for this will do that anyway.

[CBH1926]

Looking at the daytime photos of the hospital and the damage caused.

Absence of aerial crater and the fact that buildings surrounding the parking lot are still standing.

 

Something else rather than aerial bomb caused the explosion.

Most likely a missile of some sort, but seeing how big the explosion was on the video, it appears there was a secondary contributor.

 

[Coconuts]

49 minutes ago, Provost said:

They can’t even agree on funding themselves, and one arm of their government is shut down trying to find a speaker so they can pass spending bills necessary to pay their soldiers.

 

The only spending Biden is authorized for is to support Israel.  He can’t even keep paying his own soldiers in less than a month.

 

This is about as good an insight into how linked the US and Israel are.

 

Too tethered imo, it's wild to me how the US has devastated other countries by means of their foreign policy and yet they'll throw billions at Israel every year 

 

I was hoping some of that massive amount of money would go towards rebuilding but I guess that's too much to ask

 

Ukraine I get, Russia is the clear-cut aggressor and their being allowed to simply walk over Ukraine would have had a massive ripple effect 

 

I wonder what the "other top security priorities" are

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Coconuts

[Playoff Beered]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

I still don’t know what happened, I am not going to jump the jumping to conclusions bandwagon based on a press briefing by the IDF.

 

But you sure do based on some random twitter post or Al jazeera article that clearly states Al Jazeera was not able to independently verify the accounts. 

[CBH1926]

According to the U.S intelligence.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/u-s-intelligence-shows-gaza-militants-behind-hospital-blast/ar-AA1iqDrW?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=81f3600abe2e49a1a912ba99637d83c2&ei=14

[Playoff Beered]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

I have posted repeatedly that those rockets are effectively useless, inaccurate and probably kill more people who launch them than targets in Israel.  The misfire theory is plausible in that way.  I have no idea if the explanation of leftover propellant causing the explosion is valid or not.  Certainly the warheads they carry aren’t capable of doing that.

 

Re-posting again

 

Quote

PIJ extensively used the Badr 3 rocket, which appears to have been designed and tested in Iran, during the 2021 conflict. First unveiled by PIJ in 2019, the rocket carries a warhead weighing between 300 kg and 400 kg (661 pounds to 882 pounds), which is much heavier than warheads of most Palestinian rockets. The heavier the warhead, the larger the explosion. But the rocket appears to be middling in terms of range. In May 2021, PIJ struck the Israeli cities of Ashkelon and Netivot with the Badr 3, indicating that it has a range of at least 13 km (8 miles).

 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/irans-rockets-palestinian-groups

[Provost]

24 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

But you sure do based on some random twitter post or Al jazeera article that clearly states Al Jazeera was not able to independently verify the accounts. 

I did not, go quote where I did?  That is simply a lie.  I repeatedly stated that lacking conclusive evidence there is a range of possibilities, and even pointed out one of them could be Hamas exaggerating the death toll.

You all beating on this "not independently verified" drum for several pages as some sort of "gotcha" moment is frankly just plain nonsense.  That is just media legalese that there reporters aren't there seeing it firsthand, it doesn't point to the veracity of claims or not.

You know what line is on the CNN report with the IDF's explanation?  I haven't seen your big gotcha that it shows that line means the IDF is lying.  I will wait for that response from you... maybe you were just unaware and will rectify it.

CNN cannot independently confirm what caused the explosion at the Al-Ahli hospital.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/18/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-war-wednesday-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Provost

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Re-posting again for the slow folks in the back...

 

 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/irans-rockets-palestinian-groups

 

could be time for a refresher on why Hamas chose to begin this latest round of fighting. Israel and the Saudi's getting close to a deal is bad (in their minds) for extremists in the region. 

 

Who does it serve to create all this destruction? certainly not Israel, nor Palestinians that want a peaceful life. 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Bob Long