aGENT Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said: So who's getting paid $6.5m, was signed in the last two years, and is 4th in ATOI on their team? I'm open to alternative ways of defining low end 2nd pair. Aaah... This is a reading comprehension issue... low end 2nd pair guys are pretty much $4.5,+-$6.5'ish for high end 2nd pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Tannen Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: Aaah... This is a reading comprehension issue... low end 2nd pair guys are pretty much $4.5,+-$6.5'ish for high end 2nd pair. Ah you are correct on that part. In my defence it wasn't very clearly written and I am an idiot. I did go through the wages of the 2nd highest paid D on every team and only a few outliers got over $6.5m, so your estimates still look a little high. The thing is you haven't given any examples. I'm not saying they don't exist I just don't really want to go through the all UFA D signed in the past 2 years then try to guess who you're comparables are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said: Ah you are correct on that part. In my defence it wasn't very clearly written and I am an idiot. I did go through the wages of the 2nd highest paid D on every team and only a few outliers got over $6.5m, so your estimates still look a little high. The thing is you haven't given any examples. I'm not saying they don't exist I just don't really want to go through the all UFA D signed in the past 2 years then try to guess who you're comparables are. And I don't really want to, nor have them time, to look them up and post them for you. They're freely there if you want to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Tannen Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 And I've just remembered this is the Sam Lafferty thread. Seems like a reasonable, low risk signing. Solid bottom 6 player on a modest salary for a 5th rounder and hopefully provides some needed grit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Tannen Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, aGENT said: And I don't really want to, nor have them time, to look them up and post them for you. They're freely there if you want to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 19 hours ago, cripplereh said: So sub par 30 goals and slow is a good top 6 player? Brock has played like a third line player on playoff teams. Why do you think no team would trade for him?? A slow third line player are a dime a dozen.Plus most get paid way less last year and years before. Maybe next year when the cap goes up we can trade him as third line guys will be paid close to what he gets. love third liners who average .78 ppg. Can’t even believe I’m replying to you at this point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, cripplereh said: So sub par 30 goals and slow is a good top 6 player? Brock has played like a third line player on playoff teams. Why do you think no team would trade for him?? A slow third line player are a dime a dozen.Plus most get paid way less last year and years before. Maybe next year when the cap goes up we can trade him as third line guys will be paid close to what he gets. If there is ever a team in the NHL where all 6 of their forwards have over 30 goals, it's very rare. Usually it's maybe 2 or 3 of their forwards at 30 goals. Yet, you somehow want to state sub-30 goals and skating, just 2 stats with no context anywhere else, is not a top 6 forward, when he would be a top 6 forward on EVERY team in the league based on those same stats you provided. You are also making the assumptions that no team will trade for him when there's literally no proof of that. I get people's frustration with Boeser, but if you're going to base things on assumptions with evidently no research or understanding of what a top 6 forward is, you might as well argue that Boeser has no hair while you're at it. You would have about the same accuracy. Don't get me wrong, in no way am I saying he couldn't improve in those areas, but if you're going to start talking about him not being a top 6.... then you're going to start losing debates. It's fine if you don't like the player, but you don't have to overexaggerate to dislike his play. He's top 6 but can improve his point total and skating. Simple as that. No need to make other crap up dude. lol Edited October 11, 2023 by The Lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 43 minutes ago, Dizzle said: love third liners who average .78 ppg. Can’t even believe I’m replying to you at this point. There's a few people with an overwhelming anti-Boeser bias on here Is he AMAZING? No, and probably a hair overpaid (and slow). But he's still a decent top 6, 25+ goal, +/-60 point winger who has increased his play making and defensive play every year (despite some down years due to obvious reasons). It's not like we have 25+, 60 point wingers growing on trees here... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, aGENT said: There's a few people with an overwhelming anti-Boeser bias on here Is he AMAZING? No, and probably a hair overpaid (and slow). But he's still a decent top 6, 25+ goal, +/-60 point winger who has increased his play making and defensive play every year (despite some down years due to obvious reasons). It's not like we have 25+, 60 point wingers growing on trees here... He's a 45-55 point player and he gets top 6 mins and pp1 duties. Connor Garland got 46 last year and 52 the year before playing 3rd lines mins and almost no pp time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 26 minutes ago, stawns said: He's a 45-55 point player and he gets top 6 mins and pp1 duties. Connor Garland got 46 last year and 52 the year before playing 3rd lines mins and almost no pp time. And 75% of his points against garbage teams and garland stats vs the good and bad teams are night and day.. 3rd line mins playing against inferior defence pairing I don’t see what’s the gush on garland and the hate on boeser. At least boeser can produce against tougher competition which garland have yet to shown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: And 75% of his points against garbage teams and garland stats vs the good and bad teams are night and day.. 3rd line mins playing against inferior defence pairing I don’t see what’s the gush on garland and the hate on boeser. At least boeser can produce against tougher competition which garland have yet to shown I'm not sure I'd say he produces much......46 and 52 points isn't much for the $ they gave him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 37 minutes ago, stawns said: He's a 45-55 point player and he gets top 6 mins and pp1 duties. Connor Garland got 46 last year and 52 the year before playing 3rd lines mins and almost no pp time. And Garland wants out, moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Just now, canuck73_3 said: And Garland wants out, moving on. Unless they make a different move and garland slides into the top 6, then I'm sure he'd be happy to stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 39 minutes ago, stawns said: He's a 45-55 point player and he gets top 6 mins and pp1 duties. Connor Garland got 46 last year and 52 the year before playing 3rd lines mins and almost no pp time. Exhibit A 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Just now, stawns said: Unless they make a different move and garland slides into the top 6, then I'm sure he'd be happy to stay Once you’ve changed agents and put the request out, best for all sides to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Just now, aGENT said: Exhibit A Are those numbers untrue? Why is looking at the real picture "hating". I have nothing against Boeser, I just don't think he's anywhere near worty the money or the opportunity he gets. It's nothing personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said: Once you’ve changed agents and put the request out, best for all sides to move on. Very possible, but not unprecedented for a player to want out, only to come back into the fold either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, stawns said: Are those numbers untrue? Why is looking at the real picture "hating". I have nothing against Boeser, I just don't think he's anywhere near worty the money or the opportunity he gets. It's nothing personal. Yet been on the front line moving Boeser out every opportunity, even the Garland wanting out thread has lead to you moving Boeser out instead. I was firmly in the move Beauvillier camp and keep Garland. With the news from Garland’s camp today, don’t let the door hit ya on the way out. And I’ll take Brock’s PROVEN points over Garland’s potential points on the PP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said: Yet been on the front line moving Boeser out every opportunity, even the Garland wanting out thread has lead to you moving Boeser out instead. I was firmly in the move Beauvillier camp and keep Garland. With the news from Garland’s camp today, don’t let the door hit ya on the way out. And I’ll take Brock’s PROVEN points over Garland’s potential points on the PP. I'd be fine with moving AB, no question......I think that'll happen closer to the tdl when he might have some value. Their points are nearly identical as it stands now. Over the last two seasons Boes has 101 points and Garland has 98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, stawns said: Are those numbers untrue? Why is looking at the real picture "hating". I have nothing against Boeser, I just don't think he's anywhere near worty the money or the opportunity he gets. It's nothing personal. But when anyone has brought up the 29 goal season that if Brock didn't get hurt you say it means nothing and he’s not actually a 30 goal scorer. Because we don’t know if he’d score 1 goal in 16 games… But now based on absolutely nothing Garland will match Boeser’s production on the PP? There’s 2 PP units, don’t you think if Garland was good enough to produce Boeser numbers with just pp time that they’d at least play him on unit 2 to start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, stawns said: I'd be fine with moving AB, no question......I think that'll happen closer to the tdl when he might have some value. Their points are nearly identical as it stands now. Over the last two seasons Boes has 101 points and Garland has 98 .74ppg and wants to be here vs .56ppg and wants out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said: But when anyone has brought up the 29 goal season that if Brock didn't get hurt you say it means nothing and he’s not actually a 30 goal scorer. Because we don’t know if he’d score 1 goal in 16 games… But now based on absolutely nothing Garland will match Boeser’s production on the PP? There’s 2 PP units, don’t you think if Garland was good enough to produce Boeser numbers with just pp time that they’d at least play him on unit 2 to start? At least my point of view is backed up by numbers and evidence. I'm not sure why those of us look at the numbers (and let's be honest, his overall isn't great) in an unbiased way are "haters" as opposed to those who cling to the "29 goals" once in 7 years argument. Hrs a decent producer, but Garland is equally proficient and would be better given the same mins and opportunity.......not to mention he's a much better player, overall. Ultimately I don't think either of them is moved this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 minute ago, stawns said: At least my point of view is backed up by numbers and evidence. I'm not sure why those of us look at the numbers (and let's be honest, his overall isn't great) in an unbiased way are "haters" as opposed to those who cling to the "29 goals" once in 7 years argument. Hrs a decent producer, but Garland is equally proficient and would be better given the same mins and opportunity.......not to mention he's a much better player, overall. Ultimately I don't think either of them is moved this season So you still don’t think Brock could score 1 goal in 16 games then? Despite scoring a goal every 2.4 games. All this while thinking a .56ppg player will match a career .78ppg player in points? I’m sorry but in both cases the math ain’t mathing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: .74ppg and wants to be here vs .56ppg and wants out. Boeser is a 45-55 point guy, who doesn't really play a very well rounded game .......that's what he is, in the real world. He had a solid rookie season and that was fun to watch, but that was the outlier, not the norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, stawns said: At least my point of view is backed up by numbers and evidence. I'm not sure why those of us look at the numbers (and let's be honest, his overall isn't great) in an unbiased way are "haters" as opposed to those who cling to the "29 goals" once in 7 years argument. Hrs a decent producer, but Garland is equally proficient and would be better given the same mins and opportunity.......not to mention he's a much better player, overall. Ultimately I don't think either of them is moved this season Garland hasn’t even scored 25 goals. If he could do that maybe he’ll get a pp shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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