Kevin Biestra Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, Miss Korea said: Players can't even put rainbow tape on their sticks because some snowflakes are too offended by it. The league is literally stopping players from taping their sticks. What the hell are you talking about... It's not really because snowflakes don't like seeing the tape on the sticks. It's more a product of other snowflakes singling out the players who don't put the tape on for consequences or questioning and so on. If the fans and media had simply left players to wear a jersey or not wear a jersey and leave it at that then none of this would have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: It's not really because snowflakes don't like seeing the tape on the sticks. It's more a product of other snowflakes singling out the players who don't put the tape on for consequences or questioning and so on. If the fans and media had simply left players to wear a jersey or not wear a jersey and leave it at that then none of this would have happened. Let's not pretend as though the NHL didn't just introduce one of the least LGBTQ-friendly policies in any North American sports league. Imagine this kind of ban in the PWHL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Let's not pretend as though the NHL didn't just introduce one of the least LGBTQ-friendly policies in any North American sports league. Imagine this kind of ban in the PWHL. I'm not pretending anything either way. It's just that it wasn't the anti-LGBT snowflakes that induced these policies. It was the people clamoring for the heads of any player who didn't wear the warmup jerseys. I said back on the other forum...people had 95-98% or more of the players wearing the jerseys and couldn't accept the victory. They had to throw a fit about the 2-5% who weren't wearing them and now nobody wears the jerseys and no tape either. Sometimes you just have to accept a 98% victory and work from there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Fine with me. Get rid of all these interest group agendas, ceremonies, including the native pregame stuff. Enough already. Sing the anthem, drop the puck. I'm here to watch a sport and not have this sideshow stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breadnbutta Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 29 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Players can't even put rainbow tape on their sticks because some snowflakes are too offended by it. The league is literally stopping players from taping their sticks. What the hell are you talking about... White tape or black tape. Do they use rainbow balls in the NBA? Or rainbow gloves in baseball. Give it up. Just because they make a rule that you don't agree with doesn't mean they are bigoted or not inclusive. I know you never said that but that is where these topics ALWAYS GO. So its easier to just eliminate the hot button issue. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 40 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Players can't even put rainbow tape on their sticks because some snowflakes are too offended by it. The league is literally stopping players from taping their sticks. What the hell are you talking about... Who's really the snowflake here?!? People that get offended because the can't get tape night that have a month dedicated which actually seems like a whole year and get promotions from what seems like every product ever... Keep your sexuality out of it AND politics and play the dang game. Now back to my hetero-sexual day...oh wait... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 25 minutes ago, Breadnbutta said: White tape or black tape. Do they use rainbow balls in the NBA? Or rainbow gloves in baseball. Give it up. Just because they make a rule that you don't agree with doesn't mean they are bigoted or not inclusive. I know you never said that but that is where these topics ALWAYS GO. So its easier to just eliminate the hot button issue. 11 minutes ago, Canuck You said: Who's really the snowflake here?!? People that get offended because the can't get tape night that have a month dedicated which actually seems like a whole year and get promotions from what seems like every product ever... Keep your sexuality out of it AND politics and play the dang game. Now back to my hetero-sexual day...oh wait... The only people who think there's no connection between sports and politics are the dumbest of the dumb. Especially with hockey. Old folks don't remember the '72 Summit Series because it was good, clean hockey. They remember it because we beat the Soviets. Same thing with USA in 1980. Do you honestly think our own rivalry with the United States is purely based on... hockey? How many times have we seen the Olympics or any international competition get used as a political tool? Let's pivot to the owners, though. Ask them why millions of dollars are spent each year on political donations. From 2016-2020, American owners spent $8.8M in political donations, with around 78% given to Republicans. Bill Foley (VGK) and Peter Karmanos (CAR) directly contributed to Trump's 2020 campaign. So stop being ignorant to the reality of what's happening here. Sports and politics have been intertwined since the gladiators fought in the Roman Colliseum. Don't even try to say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: The only people who think there's no connection between sports and politics are the dumbest of the dumb. Especially with hockey. Old folks don't remember the '72 Summit Series because it was good, clean hockey. They remember it because we beat the Soviets. Same thing with USA in 1980. Do you honestly think our own rivalry with the United States is purely based on... hockey? How many times have we seen the Olympics or any international competition get used as a political tool? Let's pivot to the owners, though. Ask them why millions of dollars are spent each year on political donations. From 2016-2020, American owners spent $8.8M in political donations, with around 78% given to Republicans. Bill Foley (VGK) and Peter Karmanos (CAR) directly contributed to Trump's 2020 campaign. So stop being ignorant to the reality of what's happening here. Sports and politics have been intertwined since the gladiators fought in the Roman Colliseum. Don't even try to say otherwise. International sports are used as a proxy for and to actually reduce geopolitical conflict. Inserting politics into professional sports on a local or national level isn't really having the effect of reducing conflict. As we have seen...in the media, on these discussion boards and so on...to the point that the NHL basically got sick of it and said Mom and Dad are turning the car around and going home. If the owners of sports teams or any corporations for that matter are contributing to one party or the other it will be 90% because of the implications for their corporate tax policies. Team owners aren't contributing to Trump because they hope he will enact some homophobic or racist policies. Trump was, by the way, the first US President ever to take office while not being in opposition to gay marriage. No president before him and that includes Obama who switched during his presidency. And Biden spent his entire political life until recently quite vigorously campaigning against gay marriage. Politics is a mess. Always has been and always will be. We almost all agree that racism and homophobia are bad. Rituals confirming this for ourselves before sports...I can take or leave them. But the reason they are on the outs is because they drummed up more conflict than there was without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said: It's not really because snowflakes don't like seeing the tape on the sticks. It's more a product of other snowflakes singling out the players who don't put the tape on for consequences or questioning and so on. If the fans and media had simply left players to wear a jersey or not wear a jersey and leave it at that then none of this would have happened. "We had some issues with players feeling uncomfortable supporting certain causes and didn't want our players to be put in that situation going forward" That's an exact quote from Bill Daly. Whether or not your personal assumption is correct, the direct quote says that some people didn't feel comfortable with something so now no one gets to do it. "It's just that it wasn't the anti-LGBT snowflakes that induced these policies." Maybe it's just me, but the first quote seems to completely contradict the second quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said: "We had some issues with players feeling uncomfortable supporting certain causes and didn't want our players to be put in that situation going forward" That's an exact quote from Bill Daly. Whether or not your personal assumption is correct, the direct quote says that some people didn't feel comfortable with something so now no one gets to do it. "It's just that it wasn't the anti-LGBT snowflakes that induced these policies." Maybe it's just me, but the first quote seems to completely contradict the second quote. Setting aside that Bill Daly is historically the only person in the business whose word I trust less than Gary Bettman, the provided quote doesn't really clear up the matter. The reason the players are uncomfortable is because they get cornered, scrutinized, publicized and investigated if they don't wear the jersey. If players who didn't wear the jersey had just been left alone and everyone else was happy that 21 out of 22 or whatever players were wearing the jersey, I'm willing to bet we would have jerseys and tape again this year and into the indefinite future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 59 minutes ago, Breadnbutta said: Do they use rainbow balls in the NBA? Or rainbow gloves in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said: Setting aside that Bill Daly is historically the only person in the business whose word I trust less than Gary Bettman, the provided quote doesn't really clear up the matter. The reason the players are uncomfortable is because they get cornered, scrutinized, publicized and investigated if they don't wear the jersey. If players who didn't wear the jersey had just been left alone and everyone else was happy that 21 out of 22 or whatever players were wearing the jersey, I'm willing to bet we would have jerseys and tape again this year and into the indefinite future. Just because you discredit someone doesn't invalidated a quote. The exact quote says one thing. You can make whatever you assumptions you want on what lead to the quote. But the exact quote from the Deputy Commissioner of the NHL contradicted your quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said: Just because you discredit someone doesn't invalidated a quote. The exact quote says one thing. You can make whatever you assumptions you want on what lead to the quote. But the exact quote from the Deputy Commissioner of the NHL contradicted your quote. I watched the situation play out before my eyes. I think the results and conclusions are beyond obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said: I watched the situation play out before my eyes. I think the results and conclusions are beyond obvious. Subjective opinion, nice, those are almost always entirely accurate. Edited October 10, 2023 by MeanSeanBean 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) Hoping more players push back at this a bit, make it a freedom of expression issue Edited October 10, 2023 by Coconuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: International sports are used as a proxy for and to actually reduce geopolitical conflict. Inserting politics into professional sports on a local or national level isn't really having the effect of reducing conflict. As we have seen...in the media, on these discussion boards and so on...to the point that the NHL basically got sick of it and said Mom and Dad are turning the car around and going home. If the owners of sports teams or any corporations for that matter are contributing to one party or the other it will be 90% because of the implications for their corporate tax policies. Team owners aren't contributing to Trump because they hope he will enact some homophobic or racist policies. Trump was, by the way, the first US President ever to take office while not being in opposition to gay marriage. No president before him and that includes Obama who switched during his presidency. And Biden spent his entire political life until recently quite vigorously campaigning against gay marriage. Politics is a mess. Always has been and always will be. We almost all agree that racism and homophobia are bad. Rituals confirming this for ourselves before sports...I can take or leave them. But the reason they are on the outs is because they drummed up more conflict than there was without them. So you'll settle for taking the easy way out? Standing up for LGBTQ rights creates conflict. And it doesn't make much money. As you can tell with the repeated protest here in Canada, this problem is getting worse and discrimination is once again out in the open. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said: Subjective opinion, nice, those are almost always entirely accurate. FFS dude, you really expect Bill Daly to come out and state the truth here in explicit detail? "It's great for our corporate image and ESG scores etc. if we make public displays of these social causes but it hasn't been worth the bad publicity ever since the media and fans started focusing on and blowing up every single player that doesn't wear the jersey and also we don't like conflict so the path of least resistance and least bad publicity is if we just forget the whole thing and wait for it to blow over rather than having a new headline every time one guy on each of the 32 teams doesn't feel like wearing the jersey. So we're tucking tail and running and what did you expect fools, we are a corporation and always were. We don't exactly want to be Bud Light and Dylan Mulvaney here. Thank you for your time." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: So you'll settle for taking the easy way out? Standing up for LGBTQ rights creates conflict. And it doesn't make much money. As you can tell with the repeated protest here in Canada, this problem is getting worse and discrimination is once again out in the open. I don't look to corporations for moral or social guidance in any area of life and I never have. They are corporations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said: FFS dude, you really expect Bill Daly to come out and state the truth here in explicit detail? "It's great for our corporate image and ESG scores etc. if we make public displays of these social causes but it hasn't been worth the bad publicity ever since the media and fans started focusing on and blowing up every single player that doesn't wear the jersey and also we don't like conflict so the path of least resistance and least bad publicity is if we just forget the whole thing and wait for it to blow over rather than having a new headline every time one guy on each of the 32 teams doesn't feel like wearing the jersey. So we're tucking tail and running and what did you expect fools, we are a corporation and always were. We don't exactly want to be Bud Light and Dylan Mulvaney here. Thank you for your time." Ah yes, resorting to satire. The high road, nicely done. Personally I think I'll stick to, you know, direct quotes from the commissioner that contradict yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhoodlum Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 16 hours ago, Sapper said: For this to be true the nhl would have also.banned any different or special items for all other events as equally distracting They didn't. So it is targeted. At what point do we say enough to expanding religous freedoms so that their will is forced on all of us. I get it for a very limited few that legitimately have religious conflicts. But the vast majority claiming religion haven't warmed a pew in a very long time Let those that wish stay in the locker room for warm up but this complete stripping of rights is just that. We can't call it religious freedom when these bigots start pushing their (false) morality on us. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: I don't look to corporations for moral or social guidance in any area of life and I never have. They are corporations. That is not the message being spread by any sports team. Every team is committed to some extent of community outreach (depending on the owner). The star athletes are always a role model to children. Anywhere. And now those athletes can't stand up for LGBTQ rights because the league has banned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 23 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Hoping more players push back at this a bit, make it a freedom of expression issue Or make it a choice? So you know, It doesn't cause divide...to each their own right? and then they get mad when players don't participate. Personally , I have nothing against the alphabet community BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Canuck You said: Or make it a choice? So you know, It doesn't cause divide...to each their own right? and then they get mad when players don't participate. Personally , I have nothing against the alphabet community BTW. It's one thing to cancel Pride Night. It's a completely different thing to outright ban all expressions of pride. How can you even think this was a good move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) On 10/10/2023 at 12:02 PM, Miss Korea said: That is not the message being spread by any sports team. Every team is committed to some extent of community outreach (depending on the owner). The star athletes are always a role model to children. Anywhere. And now those athletes can't stand up for LGBTQ rights because the league has banned it. The athletes can do anything they want other than in the warmup or during the game to support LGBQT rights. They are welcome to and probably even encouraged to be vocally supportive in interviews, to contribute financially to causes and so on. The league has not banned standing up for LGBTQ rights at all. People have to use their own judgment in selecting their role models. Being good at sports...is a good example for...people who want to be good at sports. And little else in and of itself. A role model would be someone who actually takes a stand...like Muhammad Ali and the Vietnam War. If that's the example you want to follow on that issue. Wearing a given jersey because you are mandated to...that's just following orders really. If you expect corporations to put their balance sheets on the line for any particular issue...you'll mostly be taking a wizz into the wind. Ben and Jerry's was founded with a socialist policy where no employee could make more than 6x what any other employee made. Until the bigwigs that created that policy realized they were paying entry level unskilled employees way more than market value and giving away millions of dollars that they could have kept for themselves...and they decided they wanted that money after all and changed the policy. The history of virtually every corporation will show dipping their toes into social stuff and then pulling their toes out once it gets expensive...and that's if they even dip their toes in at all. You are the role model for your kids. Teach them what they should value in selecting additional role models for themselves. Edited October 16, 2023 by Kevin Biestra 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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