[Article] NHL reportedly bans Pride Tape for 2023-24 season

[Canuck You]

2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

It's one thing to cancel Pride Night.  It's a completely different thing to outright ban all expressions of pride.  How can you even think this was a good move?

Because it causes divide, Not everyone is with it. People have different beliefs and respect that. Don't try to force something on anyone. Look what that BLM movement did.

[Miss Korea]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The athletes can do anything they want other than in the warmup or during the game to support LGBQT rights.  They are welcome to and probably even encouraged to be vocally supportive in interviews, to contribute financially to causes and so on.  The league has not banned standing up for LGBTQ right at all.

 

People have to use their own judgment in selecting their role models.  Being good at sports...is a good example for...people who want to be good at sports.  And little else in and of itself.  A role model would be someone who actually takes a stand...like Muhammad Ali and the Vietnam War.  If that's the example you want to follow on that issue.  Wearing a given jersey because you are mandated to...that's just following orders really.

 

If you expect corporations to put their balance sheets on the line for any particular issue...you'll mostly be taking a wizz into the wind.  Ben and Jerry's was founded with a socialist policy where no employee could make more than 6x what any other employee made.  Until the bigwigs that created that policy realized they were paying entry level unskilled employees way more than market value and giving away millions of dollars that they could have kept for themselves...and they decided they wanted that money after all and changed the policy.  The history of virtually every corporation will show dipping their toes into social stuff and then pulling their toes out once it gets expensive...and that's if they even dip their toes in at all.

 

You are the role model for your kids.  Teach them what they should value in selecting additional role models for themselves.

 

Alright then.  Quinn Hughes has been a vocal supporter of LGBTQ rights.  He is taken a stance supporting social justice.  He is a role model.  In a different way, James Reimer took a stance for.... whatever nonsense he said that didn't actually make much sense (especially with Kadri).  He is also a role model to others.

 

The problem here is that Quinn Hughes has been robbed of the most visible opportunity to express that support.  Obviously the games are where the team and its players get the most exposure.  And it's even worse because he used to be able to things and now he can't. 

[Miss Korea]

6 minutes ago, Canuck You said:

Because it causes divide, Not everyone is with it. People have different beliefs and respect that. Don't try to force something on anyone. Look what that BLM movement did.

In Canada the law doesn't care what other people believe.  You cannot discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.  To that end, hockey has been a sport in which being called a f****t was one of the most common insults, and where gay players have either been forced to hide their identity or chased out of the sport altogether.

[Kevin Biestra]

19 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Alright then.  Quinn Hughes has been a vocal supporter of LGBTQ rights.  He is taken a stance supporting social justice.  He is a role model.  In a different way, James Reimer took a stance for.... whatever nonsense he said that didn't actually make much sense (especially with Kadri).  He is also a role model to others.

 

The problem here is that Quinn Hughes has been robbed of the most visible opportunity to express that support.  Obviously the games are where the team and its players get the most exposure.  And it's even worse because he used to be able to things and now he can't. 

 

Quinn Hughes still has every other opportunity in his personal time to support the LGBTQ or any other community in any way that he wants.  So do you and so do I.  Quinn Hughes can still talk about it in every pre-game, post-game, and intra-game interview if he wants.

 

If somebody's kid grows up to be a wife beating gay bashing racist it isn't Wayne Gretzky's fault or Michael Jordan's fault or James Reimer's fault or Trevor Linden's fault or Steffi Graf's fault.

 

If you don't like what James Reimer said then you can say the opposite and give the reasons why.  The antidote to bad speech is better speech.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[Canuck You]

2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

In Canada the law doesn't care what other people believe.  You cannot discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.  To that end, hockey has been a sport in which being called a f****t was one of the most common insults, and where gay players have either been forced to hide their identity or chased out of the sport altogether.

What's the law got to do with this?, It's about your personal beliefs..I guess we should have wife night also since I've heard some players take jabs at other players wives, I reckon some have worn our colors..Life ain't all sunshine and rainbows (pun intended) at this point I'm sure the whole world is aware of the LGBT community.  Let's leave what you prefer to do in the bedroom outside of sports and just play the game?

 

It's doing more harm than good TBH.

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, Canuck You said:

What's the law got to do with this?, It's about your personal beliefs..I guess we should have wife night also since I've heard some players take jabs at other players wives, I reckon some have worn our colors..Life ain't all sunshine and rainbows (pun intended) at this point I'm sure the whole world is aware of the LGBT community.  Let's leave what you prefer to do in the bedroom outside of sports and just play the game?

 

It's doing more harm than good TBH.

 

 

[Coconuts]

38 minutes ago, Canuck You said:

Or make it a choice? So you know, It doesn't cause divide...to each their own right? and then they get mad when players don't participate. Personally , I have nothing against the alphabet community BTW.

 

I just don't think you can have it one way. Last season they allowed players their rights to expression by allowing them to not wear x or do x, they should be allowing the players who want to do x to do x. The issue is blanket banning expression via jersey or tape. 

 

This is absolutely something players are going to take issue with, and it could very easily be presented as a freedom of expression issue. Guys are allowed to be disappointed and upset with the NHL's ruling on this, good on Reilly for speaking up. Sure, players can still do what they want off the ice, but blanket banning on-ice expression caters to a small minority, and does completely undermines the hockey is for everyone stance the NHL has been giving lip service to that last number of years.

 

The NHL is trying to navigate it in a way that protects their brand and doesn't single out players, the problem with their approach is that by blanket banning it they're catering to the few players who didn't want to do x and restricting everyone else who had no issue using jerseys and tape. 

 

There is no nice, clean route here for the NHL, this move presents as a lack of spine and either catering to a small minority of players or to certain segments of NHL fanbases. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Coconuts

[The Arrogant Worms]

The You Can Play project and Pride Tape makers released statements on Tuesday condemning the NHL's newly instituted ban on Pride Tape.

 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/you-can-play-pride-tape-release-statements-following-nhl-pride-tape-ban

[Canuck You]

9 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I just don't think you can have it one way. Last season they allowed players their rights to expression by allowing them to not wear x or do x, they should be allowing the players who want to do x to do x. The issue is blanket banning expression via jersey or tape. 

 

This is absolutely something players are going to take issue with, and it could very easily be presented as a freedom of expression issue. Guys are allowed to be disappointed and upset with the NHL's ruling on this, good on Reilly for speaking up. Sure, players can still do what they want off the ice, but blanket banning on-ice expression caters to a small minority, and does completely undermines the hockey is for everyone stance the NHL has been giving lip service to that last number of years.

 

The NHL is trying to navigate it in a way that protects their brand and doesn't single out players, the problem with their approach is that by blanket banning it they're catering to the few players who didn't want to do x and restricting everyone else who had no issue using jerseys and tape. 

Thing is that NHL being a brand itself is probably realizing the negative effects, Just look at what happened to Bud Light..It is all about branding and simple math...

 

I work with a few people that are LGBT and I would gladly attend a pride night game with them, Also I work with people that are super religious and believe that a relationship should only be between man and woman but they also respect other people's decisions but most likely will not attend a pride game due to their beliefs.

 

So back to my point, All it does is cause divide. We take sexuality out of the equation and everyone can enjoy the game and then go home after and F their partners brains out. Privately. Hopefully.

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, Canuck You said:

Thing is that NHL being a brand itself is probably realizing the negative effects, Just look at what happened to Bud Light..It is all about branding and simple math...

 

I work with a few people that are LGBT and I would gladly attend a pride night game with them, Also I work with people that are super religious and believe that a relationship should only be between man and woman but they also respect other people's decisions but most likely will not attend a pride game due to their beliefs.

 

So back to my point, All it does is cause divide. We take sexuality out of the equation and everyone can enjoy the game and then go home after and F their partners brains out. Privately. Hopefully.

 

There is a divide though, particularly in a United States that has seen what is a record number of anti-LGBTQ+ bills this past year if I remember correctly. Folks want to fuss about removing politics, ect from hockey and just focusing on the game but that's impossible because the person is political. For one, sports have included national anthems for years. Pretending that the top hockey league in the world, a billion dollar industry with a public presence, can just somehow not be tethered to the public discourse is naive.

 

Banning expression isn't going to negate a divide existing. The NHL took public steps towards promoting inclusivity, campaigned on hockey is for everyone, featured on ice gestures of support for what's historically been an oppressed and marginalized demographic and then tried to close Pandora's box when they realized how complicated it can be and that promoting such things comes with pushback. Of course they're getting pushback, being criticized, ect. 

 

This won't be going away for the NHL. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Coconuts

[Sapper]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-ban-pride-tape-1.6991413

 

To please those on the far  right and religios side it now has ended veterans night and all other celebrations 

 

From that article the NHL has banned any equipment or uniform changes even in warm up

 

Gone is veterans night,  cancer event , indigenous events etc

 

Shame that a few could end all of the good 

 

The relevent quote is

 

The updated guidance reaffirms on-ice player uniforms and gear for warmup and official team practices cannot be altered to reflect theme nights, including Pride, Hockey Fights Cancer or military appreciation celebrations. Players can voluntarily participate in themed celebrations off the ice.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Sapper

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, Canuck You said:

Because it causes divide, Not everyone is with it. People have different beliefs and respect that. Don't try to force something on anyone. Look what that BLM movement did.

 

All this outrage is driven by people who will simply move on to the next thing to be outraged about The division will always be there. You just can't buckle in the face of those driving it. 

 

Growing the game and showing people that they are welcome and included only helps.

 

There's only so far you concede everything to the pearl clutching far right reactionists before they start coming after you.  A lot of the BLM stuff is driven by the same alt right astroturf bloggosphere, same way occupy wallstreet was de-legitismized. I'm not buying it.

 

 

[Canuck You]

23 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

All this outrage is driven by people who will simply move on to the next thing to be outraged about The division will always be there. You just can't buckle in the face of those driving it. 

 

Growing the game and showing people that they are welcome and included only helps.

 

There's only so far you concede everything to the pearl clutching far right reactionists before they start coming after you.  A lot of the BLM stuff is driven by the same alt right astroturf bloggosphere, same way occupy wallstreet was de-legitismized. I'm not buying it.

 

 

 

 I've never bought a ticket where it said in a fine print that you have to be of a certain sexual orientation to enter the arena, Also apparently men are also allowed to participate in Woman's sports, Trust me they have been very welcomed.

[Danie_Canuck]

Having been involved in an organization that does DEI and LGBTQ+ inclusion in professional soccer this is very…… demoralizing.  It is somewhat comforting to see so many members here just as upset over this.  But for those thinking it’s no big deal, here’s some facts. 

LGBTQ+ youth face higher rates of violence, bully and harassment, 1 study showed 28% of LGBTQ+ youth suffer from depression. 

In the USA 73% of LGBTQ+ youth and adults believe sporting spaces are not safe or welcoming.  38% of lGBTQ+ people do not know an organization or individual to contact in instances of being discriminated against in a sport context (Outsport 2019).   In another study from Outsport and Out on the Fields between 2015 and 2019 polled 9500 Gay and Straight individuals.  80% of those have witnessed or experienced homophobia in sport, 78% believe an openly gay person would not be safe a sporting event. 50% of gays and lesbians and personally been targeted.  80% of those 9500 people polled believe members of the LGBTQ+ are “Not at all accepted” in sporting culture.

 

But ya, it’s no big deal now is it? 

 

I understand not making all players wear the pride jerseys, and I understand the argument that those players opposed to Pride nights may detract from the bigger message.  So make it optional! Make it optional for a player to wear the jersey, or use the tape etc.   This mentality of “this or that” is very divisive and accomplishes nothing.  

 

Lastly, what harm does the tape or jerseys bring vs good.  What if that gay kid that might be the next Crosby, Gretzky, Linden, Howe etc sees that representation and continues the sport? What if that kid now sees that representation disappear because 6 players out of the way 2000 active players have publicly opposed inclusion? 

[Kevin Biestra]

25 minutes ago, DSVII said:

All this outrage is driven by people who will simply move on to the next thing to be outraged about The division will always be there. You just can't buckle in the face of those driving it. 

 

Growing the game and showing people that they are welcome and included only helps.

 

There's only so far you concede everything to the pearl clutching far right reactionists before they start coming after you.  A lot of the BLM stuff is driven by the same alt right astroturf bloggosphere, same way occupy wallstreet was de-legitismized. I'm not buying it.

 

The pearl clutchers that brought on this new policy were the people who wanted players who didn't wear the jersey to be fined, deported, suspended, called to answer for it by the media and so on.

 

If people had been happy to let a small minority of players opt out of the jersey and so on without incident and scrutiny and investigation and putting them in the spotlight and demanding answers and so on, then you would still have Pride jerseys and all of the other jerseys too.

 

Daddy Bettman was going to drive everyone to the PNE but they all bickered in the back of the car long and loud enough that he turned the car around and now the PNE is off for everyone.  And none of the other nights too.

 

It was all avoidable if people could live and let live...including letting live the few players who opted out of the jersey to do so and then play the game.  But that's not how it went.  It's more or less exactly what I predicted and it is more or less exactly what has come to pass.

[DSVII]

Just now, Canuck You said:

 

 I've never bought a ticket where it said in a fine print that you have to be of a certain sexual orientation to enter the arena, Also apparently men are also allowed to participate in Woman's sports, Trust me they have been very welcomed.

And neither have I, this is a straw man. Unless you are specifically calling something that's happened?

 

This about telling those who've felt abused, the need to hide their real identities from their loved ones and team mates for fear of the very ridicule you're showing, that they can play hockey.

 

Trans sports is another category/issue IMO.  That's not what the pride tape represents. All i can say is, I've seen transitioned men lose to women in their respective athletic events. It's not as big an issue as you're blowing it up to be. What % of the competitive population are you even talking about here?

 

[Canuck You]

It's so funny that this thread alone proves my point..It causes divide, Had it not have been created we'd be talking about hockey most likely no matter your sexuality.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Canuck You said:

Thing is that NHL being a brand itself is probably realizing the negative effects, Just look at what happened to Bud Light..It is all about branding and simple math...

 

I work with a few people that are LGBT and I would gladly attend a pride night game with them, Also I work with people that are super religious and believe that a relationship should only be between man and woman but they also respect other people's decisions but most likely will not attend a pride game due to their beliefs.

 

So back to my point, All it does is cause divide. We take sexuality out of the equation and everyone can enjoy the game and then go home after and F their partners brains out. Privately. Hopefully.

And now this decision is further destroying the brand.  Letting the bigots get their way is not a good look for a league that is likely allowing multiple rapists to suit up this season.

[Sapper]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The pearl clutchers that brought on this new policy were the people who wanted players who didn't wear the jersey to be fined, deported, suspended, called to answer for it by the media and so on.

 

If people had been happy to let a small minority of players opt out of the jersey and so on without incident and scrutiny and investigation and putting them in the spotlight and demanding answers and so on, then you would still have Pride jerseys and all of the other jerseys too.

 

Daddy Bettman was going to drive everyone to the PNE but they all bickered in the back of the car long and loud enough that he turned the car around and now the PNE is off for everyone.  And none of the other nights too.

 

It was all avoidable if people could live and let live...including letting live the few players who opted out of the jersey to do so and then play the game.  But that's not how it went.  It's more or less exactly what I predicted and it is more or less exactly what has come to pass.

The problem with that is it forces that religion on to others 

 

Freedom of religion is the freedom for YOU to belong to and worship in the faith of your choosing 

 

Pride related rights are law - and not subject to the same individual determination that religion is.

 

Meaning one person's religious beliefs should not be over riding a legal right of a citizen. That requires the religious beliefs of a person to be forced onto others.

 

Those apposing lgbqt+ lifestyle are free to do so as a matter of personal choice- but for them to force their narritive on everyone means they demanded we.comply with their mandate against it or end it all for all.causes

 

Religion belongs in churches and the home... not in law.

[DSVII]

10 minutes ago, Canuck You said:

It's so funny that this thread alone proves my point..It causes divide, Had it not have been created we'd be talking about hockey most likely no matter your sexuality.

 

It's the thread specifically designed to talk about it so...not sure what you're looking for here.

 

And have Canucks fans been united on ANYTHING these last few years? Gotta be realistic here lol

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, Sapper said:

The problem with that is it forces that religion on to others 

 

Freedom of religion is the freedom for YOU to belong to and worship in the faith of your choosing 

 

Pride related rights are law - and not subject to the same individual determination that religion is.

 

Meaning one person's religious beliefs should not be over riding a legal right of a citizen. That requires the religious beliefs of a person to be forced onto others.

 

Those apposing lgbqt+ lifestyle are free to do so as a matter of personal choice- but for them to force their narritive on everyone means they demanded we.comply with their mandate against it or end it all for all.causes

 

Religion belongs in churches and the home... not in law.

 

But the players here who didn't wear the jersey were not trying to convert gay people to be Christian or Muslim or anything else, they were not trying to stop gay marriage, they were not beating up gay people, they were not doing anything TO a gay person.  They were just saying don't make ME wear the jersey.

 

You talk about Pride related rights but there is no Charter right to make another person wear a garment supporting you personally...and nor should there be.  As I said way back in this discussion...people talking about human rights here fail to realize that no actual right of an LGBTQ person is actually affected here...unless you want to claim the right to make a non-LGBTQ person wear something with a message you want them to wear.  And that is actually a pretty serious encroachment...and that is very clear if you turn it around and want to make a gay person wear a shirt that quotes Leviticus.

 

That's why I have said the solution all along was to live and let live...in all directions.  And far more often than not you'll avoid problems.

 

No religious belief was being forced on any other person here.  Some hockey players simply didn't want to be made to wear a shirt that they felt contradicted their religion.  And if you have actually read the scriptures...the issue should probably be with the book that has these passages.

[Sapper]

2 hours ago, ROBsolete said:

We can't call it religious freedom when these bigots start pushing their (false) morality on us.

 

Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. 

Agreed -  the human and legal rights of a citizen should never be subject to the morality view of religion

 

People wrongfully beleive religious freedom Means your views must be accepted and accommodated 

 

In fact religious freedom.means something ver different- its the freedom to chose.your faith and worship without discrimination.  It does not mean  that others must changed legal rights to make them feel.better

 

They miss that whole part in their argument 

[Miss Korea]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Quinn Hughes still has every other opportunity in his personal time to support the LGBTQ or any other community in any way that he wants.  So do you and so do I.  Quinn Hughes can still talk about it in every pre-game, post-game, and intra-game interview if he wants.

 

If somebody's kid grows up to be a wife beating gay bashing racist it isn't Wayne Gretzky's fault or Michael Jordan's fault or James Reimer's fault or Trevor Linden's fault or Steffi Graf's fault.

 

If you don't like what James Reimer said then you can say the opposite and give the reasons why.  The antidote to bad speech is better speech.

 

 

What Quinn Hughes does in his spare time has minimal coverage compared to what he does on the ice.  For every fan that follows what he does outside of hockey, there are about 25 fans that only follow what he does in-game.

 

He has lost an opportunity to express his beliefs on the biggest stage - an opportunity he once had.

 

1 hour ago, Canuck You said:

What's the law got to do with this?, It's about your personal beliefs..I guess we should have wife night also since I've heard some players take jabs at other players wives, I reckon some have worn our colors..Life ain't all sunshine and rainbows (pun intended) at this point I'm sure the whole world is aware of the LGBT community.  Let's leave what you prefer to do in the bedroom outside of sports and just play the game?

 

It's doing more harm than good TBH.

Right so you think these so-called parents' marches across Canada are just totally fine?  You don't see any problem or pushback today?

 

Like I said before, "just play sports" is one of the most ignorant statements one can come up with. 

[Kevin Biestra]

1 minute ago, Sapper said:

Agreed -  the human and legal rights of a citizen should never be subject to the morality view of religion

 

People wrongfully beleive religious freedom Means your views must be accepted and accommodated 

 

In fact religious freedom.means something ver different- its the freedom to chose.your faith and worship without discrimination.  It does not mean  that others must changed legal rights to make them feel.better

 

They miss that whole part in their argument 

 

 

I'm afraid that you make your opposition's point for them.

 

These hockey players wanted to be able to follow the scriptures of their Bible and not be made to wear a shirt that they feel contradicts the scriptures.  They weren't trying to limit the legal rights of any LGBTQ person.

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Canuck You said:

Because it causes divide, Not everyone is with it. People have different beliefs and respect that. Don't try to force something on anyone. Look what that BLM movement did.

 

yeah, I mean pointing out someone's bigotry can hurt their feelings.