[Report] Conor Garland given permission to seek trade

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I don't always agree with @King Heffy and believe he goes to extremes and hyperbole, far too often. I do however really respect his opinions, and he's become one of my favourite posters over the years. 

The ability to disagree civilly is what makes this place one of the better communities around.

[spook007]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

They'd have been much better off with OEL than Soucy and the dead cap.

Not so sure about that. In the long term yes, as his cap hit would end in 4 years, where as we now will carry his dead cap for a lot longer. 
However, we were garbage defensively with OEL and Myers as our no 2 and 3 and even if we could have them as 3-4 it still would be way too expensive. 

I think, they know, that in order to turn this franchise around, they need results now, or Petey is likely gone, and very likely Quinn too, when his contract is up. 
If the stars align, we will have some influx of youth ELCs over the next 2 years, which could counter the cap loss from OEL. 
 

I'm concerned about OELs caphit goi g forward, and definitely concerned about Garland and retaining cap. 
 

But in saying this, if getting rid of Garland, while keeping 30% of his cap hit for the next few years will be enough to get us Tuch type forward or a better Dman, them I do see the point. 
Atm Garland is wasted here... He doesn't fit on the 1st line and with the 2nd line set he'll be utilized in a limited role on the 3rd line, and to be honest both he and Beau are too expensive for the 3rd line, and son't bring, what Tocchet and management seems to prefer for the 3rd and 4th line. 
 

So while the dead cap is on this management, the issu was created by Benning for trading for OEL and Garland in the first place. 
 

[Googlie]

29 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said:

 

When the cap goes up in the summer after a good campaign from Garlic, then a trade makes sense. But not now when teams know we are looking desperate. Let’s be patient and not force something that just isn’t there right now. 

 

Yeah. - that would leave a sour taste in the mouth

[spook007]

4 hours ago, 88Canuck said:

99% of what he posts is toxic, negative and hateful and it’s been going on for a while! An opinion / discussion are one thing, but what he does is a whole other. And sadly, some defend this stuff he does. Crazy really! 

Sorry bud, not going into this discussion, however just wonder why you don't put him on ignore, if what he says riles you up so badly?

, while I haven't ever put anyone on ignore, if I had had enough of a poster, I'd just ignore the poster. Just like I'm sure a lot does to my posts, if they don't like, what I say, or how I say it....

We don't all have the same opinions, and some are more elegant in voicing their than others, so kind of live and let live...

Anyway have fun and see you around. 

[PhillipBlunt]

9 minutes ago, Googlie said:

 

Yeah. - that would leave a sour taste in the mouth

[spook007]

14 hours ago, RWJC said:

but that’s the point…Green lost them.

Why? Likely because they became disinterested/disenfranchised playing that style and structure. 

Bruce is a player’s coach. He saw what the players viewed as the best way to maximize their talent and played them accordingly. The problem wasn’t Bruce. The problem was the inmates running the asylum and when defensive strategies were implemented, the players failed him. They let him down, they eventually got him fired…even if PAJR had designs that way from early on.

 

What you’re seeing now is major roster change which has rebalanced the roster with enough buy in that the assignments must be met as the current coach is specifically engineered as a hire to force this kind of play.

PAJR previously called it the country club…and it was, in part by what I describe above. They have since taken a hardline approach to those undisciplined characteristics and Tocchet has basically driven home a new decree every step of the way since his hire. What you saw in the game against Philly is reminiscent of the team that quit on two coaches. It’s systemic. If bad habits aren’t exorcised from these players these players will be exorcised from this club, imho.

 

Like Tocchet said “who are we to think we’re anybody”.

 

 

spot on... the country club mentallity has been identified by the management group as a problem, and very likely a coach like Tocchet was brought in to break that up. 
If results don't go their way, I don't see them lasting long, however if results change, I see the players buy into it. 
The 1st player, who seemed to buy into it was Miller... The transformation on him was massive after Tocchet came in, and he is now more of a leader, than any forward on that team. 
Making Quinn captain was a smart move, as it stopped any potential envy between Miller and Petey. 

[Rekker]

Just now, spook007 said:

The 1st player, who seemed to buy into it was Miller

Reminds me of when Kesler bought into what Tortorella was selling. Anyone that can't see what grumpy, hate to lose players like JT and Kesler bring, don't get winning in hockey. To think we have JT and possibly the best center, dman, goalie in franchise history and we are still are on the edge of a precipice is stunning and depressing. JB made what will probably go down as the worst trade in modern history and it could well lead to another decade of rebuild. Damn depressing. Fuk.

[spook007]

5 minutes ago, Rekker said:

Reminds me of when Kesler bought into what Tortorella was selling. Anyone that can't see what grumpy, hate to lose players like JT and Kesler bring, don't get winning in hockey. To think we have JT and possibly the best center, dman, goalie in franchise history and we are still are on the edge of a precipice is stunning and depressing. JB made what will probably go down as the worst trade in modern history and it could well lead to another decade of rebuild. Damn depressing. Fuk.

Hammerhead meets nail... bingo

[Rekker]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Hammerhead meets nail... bingo

Thanks, but damn depressing to type. 

[AnthonyG]

45 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Not so sure about that. In the long term yes, as his cap hit would end in 4 years, where as we now will carry his dead cap for a lot longer. 
However, we were garbage defensively with OEL and Myers as our no 2 and 3 and even if we could have them as 3-4 it still would be way too expensive. 

I think, they know, that in order to turn this franchise around, they need results now, or Petey is likely gone, and very likely Quinn too, when his contract is up. 
If the stars align, we will have some influx of youth ELCs over the next 2 years, which could counter the cap loss from OEL. 
 

I'm concerned about OELs caphit goi g forward, and definitely concerned about Garland and retaining cap. 
 

But in saying this, if getting rid of Garland, while keeping 30% of his cap hit for the next few years will be enough to get us Tuch type forward or a better Dman, them I do see the point. 
Atm Garland is wasted here... He doesn't fit on the 1st line and with the 2nd line set he'll be utilized in a limited role on the 3rd line, and to be honest both he and Beau are too expensive for the 3rd line, and son't bring, what Tocchet and management seems to prefer for the 3rd and 4th line. 
 

So while the dead cap is on this management, the issu was created by Benning for trading for OEL and Garland in the first place. 
 

So this is where you and sooooo many others are wrong…..We were not defensively weak with Myers and OEL. We were weak with an unhealthy OEL weak when they chose to split them up last season. Not only that but goaltending was the much bigger issue all season long up until Demko returned, he was crap leading up to his injury.

 

2021-22 Myers and OEL allowed the 7th fewest goals against at 5v5 league wide with any dpair over 800 mins. They allowed 35 goals against at 5v5 the exact same as Tanev and Kylington for all the Tanev lovers out there, that should mean something. They allowed 11th fewest HDCA with 181. 3rd fewest HDGA with only 16. They were however 5th highest in low danger attempts against. Now if you take a moment to realize that they are on the low side of high danger attempts and on the high side of low danger attempts, it means they are forcing the opposition to take low scoring % chances far more than they are high danger. Meaning defensively they were sound. Not to mention shutting down the top lines around the league. If they truly were our worst dplayers, why was it that we came so much closer to playoffs with them as a pair, whereas we were out of playoffs by december when they were split up? 

 

What changed last season?

OEL was first of all playing through injury, secondly… THEIR D PARTNERS CHANGED. The coaching staff felt it was a good idea to split them up and have them  make up for weaker partners.

 

OEL and Myers were one of the most effective shutdown pairs in the league, for an entire season in 2021-22. They are not Niklas Lidstrom and able to single handedly shut down anyone and everyone. But as a pair they were unbelievably strong. 
 

naturalstattrick.com go look for yourselves.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Yea idk man, Tocchet isnt someone I’d be comfortable sitting on either. He makes a better coach than a couch.jkjk

 

 

 

I do get what you are getting at. Which is probably why I get into it with people here on the forums so much is because of the constant negativity. It really is overwhelming how negative this fan base/forums can be. Ignore a 100 positives only to bitch and complain endlessly about 1 or 2 negatives.

 

I battled depression from the time I was 14 to the age of 29. It took changing my view and the birth of my daughter to overcome depression. I looked only for the positives in any and all situations/circumstances. There is ALWAYS a positive. I wish more fans looked and spoke of positives and set the negatives to the wayside. Its unhealthy.

Good to hear you overcame your depression amigo. Its tough...

[spook007]

5 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

So this is where you and sooooo many others are wrong…..We were not defensively weak with Myers and OEL. We were weak with an unhealthy OEL weak when they chose to split them up last season. Not only that but goaltending was the much bigger issue all season long up until Demko returned, he was crap leading up to his injury.

 

2021-22 Myers and OEL allowed the 7th fewest goals against at 5v5 league wide with any dpair over 800 mins. They allowed 35 goals against at 5v5 the exact same as Tanev and Kylington for all the Tanev lovers out there, that should mean something. They allowed 11th fewest HDCA with 181. 3rd fewest HDGA with only 16. They were however 5th highest in low danger attempts against. Now if you take a moment to realize that they are on the low side of high danger attempts and on the high side of low danger attempts, it means they are forcing the opposition to take low scoring % chances far more than they are high danger. Meaning defensively they were sound. Not to mention shutting down the top lines around the league. If they truly were our worst dplayers, why was it that we came so much closer to playoffs with them as a pair, whereas we were out of playoffs by december when they were split up? 

 

What changed last season?

OEL was first of all playing through injury, secondly… THEIR D PARTNERS CHANGED. The coaching staff felt it was a good idea to split them up and have them  make up for weaker partners.

 

OEL and Myers were one of the most effective shutdown pairs in the league, for an entire season in 2021-22. They are not Niklas Lidstrom and able to single handedly shut down anyone and everyone. But as a pair they were unbelievably strong. 
 

naturalstattrick.com go look for yourselves.

I know, and I used to say that myself. However, $13M for a second pairing shut down pairing is obviously looked upon as being too expensive by management. 
 

Quinn Hughes will run our offense for as long as he stays here. 
OEL forte was as an offensive Dman, but 5 -24-29 +5 and 2-20 -24 doesn't exactly scream out 1-17 +15 followed by 1-16 -16 doesn't really look good value for $13M

 

Management likely felt at that sums, they should be able to carry a pairing themselves or generate more offense. 
 

I'm sure Myers would have been out the doir as well if the oppotunity had presented itself. I'm sure we could find a shut down pairing that doesn't generate much offense at a lower cost than $13M... if not then we are really in deep shit. 
 

Reality is, somethibg had to be done, or we would have been continuing like this in the mushy middle and like miss out on playoffs again. Standing pad until OEL retires wouldn't do much for us, and they want to start winning. Not just the owners and management, but the players too... 
 

I'm sure this is how management saw it, and I agree with this. 

[AnthonyG]

15 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Good to hear you overcame your depression amigo. Its tough...

Yea man it really was, I appreciate the msg. Honestly if you or anyone here for that matter is battling any mental health issues, search for the positives, they are there. It will get you through the dark times much quicker and once you find yourself always looking for the positives, you stop thinking about any negatives and life is so much more enjoyable 

[JayDangles]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

The ability to disagree civilly is what makes this place one of the better communities around.

Sarcasm?

[MaseOfBase]

Trade garland and myers to Washington for mantha and van riemsdyk 

[spook007]

3 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Yea man it really was, I appreciate the msg. Honestly if you or anyone here for that matter is battling any mental health issues, search for the positives, they are there. It will get you through the dark times much quicker and once you find yourself always looking for the positives, you stop thinking about any negatives and life is so much more enjoyable 

Been there a few times. Thank god for chemistry...

I have in general always been fine, bit tended to put too much pressure on myself and take everything to heart. 
In getting to the free bus card age, so I don't feel the need to pressurize muself any longer, and my life it much easier for it. 
And yes the feeling of one morning wakening up and feel glad the sun is shining or hearing the birds singing again is amazing. 

[King Heffy]

10 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Sarcasm?

The poster I was replying to and I have a long history of doing just that.  Overall, mods have enforced that standard well.

[AnthonyG]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

I know, and I used to say that myself. However, $13M for a second pairing shut down pairing is obviously looked upon as being too expensive by management. 
 

Quinn Hughes will run our offense for as long as he stays here. 
OEL forte was as an offensive Dman, but 5 -24-29 +5 and 2-20 -24 doesn't exactly scream out 1-17 +15 followed by 1-16 -16 doesn't really look good value for $13M

 

Management likely felt at that sums, they should be able to carry a pairing themselves or generate more offense. 
 

I'm sure Myers would have been out the doir as well if the oppotunity had presented itself. I'm sure we could find a shut down pairing that doesn't generate much offense at a lower cost than $13M... if not then we are really in deep shit. 
 

Reality is, somethibg had to be done, or we would have been continuing like this in the mushy middle and like miss out on playoffs again. Standing pad until OEL retires wouldn't do much for us, and they want to start winning. Not just the owners and management, but the players too... 
 

I'm sure this is how management saw it, and I agree with this. 

Mind you both of them were also utilized defensively rather than offensively so their numbers will naturally tank offensively. When OEL was running the PP he made much quicker work of getting chances.  He is much better at getting his shots through and getting a scramble in front. PP1 definitely likes to run it all through QH to EP40 but everyone is expecting it. They take more time to set it up and get any sort of chance going. OEL when he had 40 seconds of time, he created scoring opportunities or at least caused havoc. 
 

 

[Rekker]

56 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

So this is where you and sooooo many others are wrong…..We were not defensively weak with Myers and OEL. We were weak with an unhealthy OEL weak when they chose to split them up last season. Not only that but goaltending was the much bigger issue all season long up until Demko returned, he was crap leading up to his injury.

 

2021-22 Myers and OEL allowed the 7th fewest goals against at 5v5 league wide with any dpair over 800 mins. They allowed 35 goals against at 5v5 the exact same as Tanev and Kylington for all the Tanev lovers out there, that should mean something. They allowed 11th fewest HDCA with 181. 3rd fewest HDGA with only 16. They were however 5th highest in low danger attempts against. Now if you take a moment to realize that they are on the low side of high danger attempts and on the high side of low danger attempts, it means they are forcing the opposition to take low scoring % chances far more than they are high danger. Meaning defensively they were sound. Not to mention shutting down the top lines around the league. If they truly were our worst dplayers, why was it that we came so much closer to playoffs with them as a pair, whereas we were out of playoffs by december when they were split up? 

 

What changed last season?

OEL was first of all playing through injury, secondly… THEIR D PARTNERS CHANGED. The coaching staff felt it was a good idea to split them up and have them  make up for weaker partners.

 

OEL and Myers were one of the most effective shutdown pairs in the league, for an entire season in 2021-22. They are not Niklas Lidstrom and able to single handedly shut down anyone and everyone. But as a pair they were unbelievably strong. 
 

naturalstattrick.com go look for yourselves.

I don't see it, at all. OEL and Myers together were Keystone cops. Apart they were crap. Stats don't tell the whole story. How many faceoffs in our zone did they cause that lead to goals. How much lack of offence from off the boards and out plays, how many penalties did they cause with their chaos. They were crap, at least that's what my eyes saw. This team for over decade has had so many bumbling, defensive twits that I think many of us have forgotten what proper body, stick, gap looks like. 

 

[AnthonyG]

23 minutes ago, Rekker said:

I don't see it, at all. OEL and Myers together were Keystone cops. Apart they were crap. Stats don't tell the whole story. How many faceoffs in our zone did they cause that lead to goals. How much lack of offence from off the boards and out plays, how many penalties did they cause with their chaos. They were crap, at least that's what my eyes saw. This team for over decade has had so many bumbling, defensive twits that I think many of us have forgotten what proper body, stick, gap looks like. 

 

So as a pair in 2021-22 when they were

1) healthy

2) stapled together

They had the 3rd most 5v5  Dzone starts league wide with 184. They also had the 3 most defensive zone faceoffs. 
 

Of course you wont see nearly as much puck off the glass plays from any other dpair, because they are either getting offensive zone starts or on the fly starts.

 

 

Schenn and Hughes had 76 less dzone starts at 5v5 and 153 less dzone faceoffs. At some point, the safest, smartest thing to do is puck off the glass and out. Our forwards are also responsible for 

1) supporting down low

2) creating a breakout option

3) winning battles

 

What is one major difference between the ozone and the dzone? 
 

Under pressure vs applying pressure. 

Who is more likely to make a mistake?

my money would be on the guys under pressure constantly.

[JayDangles]

3 hours ago, EP Phone Home said:

Honestly I don’t understand why management wants to get rid of Garland so bad right now when his value is low. Build up his value, have him ride shotgun with Petey and Kuzmenko getting 40-50+ points  and when the cap goes up next season that contract won’t look like negative value.
 

 

 

 

At this point Garland on this team has much more value then to trade him (with 30% retained for the next two seasons after this is just another example of how rushed the cap spending keeps putting us in these positions that GMs know we aren’t in a position to make a fair deal.  
 

Why force ourselves to make this low valued trade and eat more dead salary is just asinine at this point. Agree with @Diamonds that whenever this trade keeps getting brought up, it pisses me off so much that we made the trade to begin with. Leave it alone and let’s keep the one asset that is still effective and useful on this roster rather then shed some salary and eat basically a third of his salary for this and two more seasons.  For what? Some spare parts/former penguins? If the goal is to be in the playoffs this year, wouldn’t we want a player like Garland to be a part of it? Garland is exactly the type of player teams want to have in the post season. He has clutch burrows vibes for the playoffs. Why offload him now when playoffs are the goal?

 

When the cap goes up in the summer after a good campaign from Garlic, then a trade makes sense. But not now when teams know we are looking desperate. Let’s be patient and not force something that just isn’t there right now. 

I don't think its a matter of wanting to trade Garland. It's that the team still needs improvement. So Management looks at what we have to trade. We cant/wont move any of our D, we need them. We cant/wont move any of our core guys. We dont want to trade any more picks... what are we left with? 

A couple extra top 9 forwards. Thats what we have to offer, and thats what we're offering. Management just wants to make the team better. What I'm thankful for is they are patient. They wont make a trade for the sake of making a trade. They recognise Garland has value as a 50pt guy, and therefore they aren't willing to move him for scraps.

I don't think they are forcing anything. The word is out that Garland is available, but it's clear they aren't moving him unless it makes the team better.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Mind you both of them were also utilized defensively rather than offensively so their numbers will naturally tank offensively. When OEL was running the PP he made much quicker work of getting chances.  He is much better at getting his shots through and getting a scramble in front. PP1 definitely likes to run it all through QH to EP40 but everyone is expecting it. They take more time to set it up and get any sort of chance going. OEL when he had 40 seconds of time, he created scoring opportunities or at least caused havoc. 
 

 

Fair enough... 

 

Regardless, I already felt at the time they traded for OEL, that it was a bit odd since the future was Quinn to run the offence. 
I didn't really have an issue with OEL except like Myers he was paid too much. 
Again, in order to change the dynamic, they needed to find money somewhere, and they were obviously none too impressed with OEL and Myers high salaries. 
Time will tell if we are going to regret it, but it gives us a 2 year window to actually see if Petey and QH can get us challenging or we need to rebuild. 
 

standing pat was never going to be any good for anyone, except get out from the OEL cap sooner. 
 

Lets see what happens. This is where we are... 

[stawns]

3 hours ago, spook007 said:

Not so sure about that. In the long term yes, as his cap hit would end in 4 years, where as we now will carry his dead cap for a lot longer. 
However, we were garbage defensively with OEL and Myers as our no 2 and 3 and even if we could have them as 3-4 it still would be way too expensive. 

I think, they know, that in order to turn this franchise around, they need results now, or Petey is likely gone, and very likely Quinn too, when his contract is up. 
If the stars align, we will have some influx of youth ELCs over the next 2 years, which could counter the cap loss from OEL. 
 

I'm concerned about OELs caphit goi g forward, and definitely concerned about Garland and retaining cap. 
 

But in saying this, if getting rid of Garland, while keeping 30% of his cap hit for the next few years will be enough to get us Tuch type forward or a better Dman, them I do see the point. 
Atm Garland is wasted here... He doesn't fit on the 1st line and with the 2nd line set he'll be utilized in a limited role on the 3rd line, and to be honest both he and Beau are too expensive for the 3rd line, and son't bring, what Tocchet and management seems to prefer for the 3rd and 4th line. 
 

So while the dead cap is on this management, the issu was created by Benning for trading for OEL and Garland in the first place. 
 

The garbage was coaching much, much more than players.  Sounds like he's playing very well under Maurice in Fla.  Bottom line is tocchet doesn't like him and the Canucks are on the hook for a long long time, with high dead cap hits along the way

 

Their worst decision so far, among several poor decisions.

[AnthonyG]

Problem is they also doubled down on this roster.

re-signed Miller, qualified Boeser, signed Mikheyev to sign Kuzmenko, didnt move Garland last year when he had value, probably could have had interest in Myers. Statistically could shown value in a trade with 1.5-2mil retained. Hell retain 2.5mill if you have to, retention on his contract would have been such a much better penalty to take than a buyout. This current management group made its own bed to sleep in. There were many other ways to go about handling things. But they openly stated missing playoffs would be an utter failure for this group. 
 

I got laughed at for screaming to trade Garland, stating Hoglander makes him redundant. Very similar players, Hogs has skill, strong as hell, just needs top 6 opportunities to showcase more of what he can do at a fraction of the cost.

Edited October 19, 2023 by AnthonyG

[204CanucksFan]

23 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I guess if there's a near-ready prospect coming back?

 

I suppose looking at the roster, this would be the final retention deal from the Benning era as well. 

 

It just bugs me that its come to this. 

Just curious if you would be ok if retaining $1.485M for 3 years if that meant a team like CBJ traded a low high end/ high med end (A-/B+) prospect like Ceulemans straight across or with a MUCH smaller sweetener.

 

Ceulemans will be on his ELC for all 3 years we are retaining on Garland. I think something like this makes sense (I don't want Peeke) for both sides. CBJ is reportedly interested, have just under $3.5M in cap space, are very much in a 'Must Win' season for Jarmo, are basically a black hole on both wings once you get past Laine and Gaudreau, and they, even after this trade, would still have an overstock of young NHL ready RHD in Boqvist and Jiricek developing behind 8 years of Severson. And $3.5M is a pretty good deal for a winger that is 75th in the league in even strength goals over the last 4 years.

 

Van gets a quality RHD prospect on the cheap for 3 years that doesn't need to be immediately rushed to the NHL and could very well be #1 RHD in Abby. We would also be trading away from a position we actually have glut of, middle 6 NHL wingers. We gain $3.5M in cap and overall just feel better with a happier outlook for the future of the team.

 

 

 

 

Until we wake up from this fantasy dream world