[Report] Conor Garland given permission to seek trade

[wai_lai416]

20 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

That's true but sometimes these guys do get to FA. More likely Tanev makes it.

 

I don't want us giving up our 1st for him either... Maybe a lower pick and prospects but we're pretty thin there too.

 

 

someone will probably give up like a 5th or something for his rights 

[RinkonRenfrew]

2 hours ago, RWJC said:

Problem for me is I don’t see Pesce making it to FA. He’s highly valuable to a number of teams.
If CAR falters, I think they look for max value (within circumstance) and send him somewhere he will pre-agree to extension. It’s just best business for them. If you can get a 1st rounder and prospect + for him you have to take it. 

We can only hope Pesce doesn’t feel the need to sign wherever his rights are traded. No reason to think he should unless it’s where he wants to end up.

 

If I’m him i’d go back to Car for reasonable money, but if they were offering it then why isn’t he already signed.

 

I think he’ll be available. Might end up as an albatross for whoever signs him, but i don’t hate the risk if we did.  We need one or two smart safe dmen who can defend going in to next year along with some bottom 6 size that can play meaningful hockey.

 

There really isn’t a significant move for us that makes us better this year unless we’re pushing our chips in for a run. I would kind of hate to see that as i’ve felt we should be building assets and going a little slower, but also, f it, i’m buying a white towel and camping out on the parade route.

 

Next off season it would be great to sign Tanev, Zad or Pesce as ufas- all of them if we could work it somehow.  It will be easier to trade Garland, and Beau and Myers caps will be gone. 

[aGENT]

10 hours ago, RWJC said:

Problem for me is I don’t see Pesce making it to FA. He’s highly valuable to a number of teams.
If CAR falters, I think they look for max value (within circumstance) and send him somewhere he will pre-agree to extension. It’s just best business for them. If you can get a 1st rounder and prospect + for him you have to take it. 

 

I'd say it's most likely he's extended in CAR... (60/40?) But I could also see a less likely scenario where CAR continues low balling him after whatever playoff run they go on, and seeing him walk. I think it HIGHLY unlikely they move him before the TDL though...unless they have compounding season ending injuries and their season tanks or something. But again, HIGHLY unlikely.

 

Either way, there are a few other options as UFA... Of course Pesce at the top, Tanev, Zaitsev, Lyubushkin, Hakanpaa... None of whom (after Pesce) should cost a whole lot of cap or term...and could be decent short term solutions for us as we wait for Willander. Though, they're only varying degrees of "capable"...none (other than Pesce) are really KEY pieces that would help push the roster towards "contender". Better than what we have today though, and as I said, solid stop gaps for Willander.

 

Alternatively, perhaps Allvin can find another "Hronek" type trade for that player as well. Schneider and Barron are both pending RFA's due raises...

 

Assuming we can move Garland, we should have the cap for one of those guys AND Zadorov...

 

Hughes, Hronek/Trade/UFA

Zadorov, Hronek/Trade/UFA

Soucy, Prospect 

 

Hirose, Friedman

[Huggy Bear]

There’s a chance Soucy can get to Cole’s level by next season.
 

Our pro scouts saw top 4 potential in him, and they have been very good so far. He’ll have had a year playing behind Cole, with Foote/Gonchar’s coaching, and likely increased responsibilities over this season (eg. extended minutes / top 4 spot duty)

 

I’d also expect Hirose to add 5-10 lbs next Summer, and earn a spot out of camp. Tocchet has said he needs to add strength, and that seems to be the only thing holding him back. His contract is structured to support this expectation, moving to a 1-way deal next season. IMO, he also passes the eye test, as being ready for 9-10 minutes against weaker NHL opponents today. 
 

That leaves us with:

 

Hughes Hronek

Soucy - [trade/UFA]

Hirose - [trade/UFA/promotion]

 

There should be several, affordable possibilities for that 3RD spot next year, including internal options. The best option may be an inexpensive vet, like Friedman, Bear, or Peeke, to help Hirose transition to the NHL. Given his lack of size, and decent puck-moving ability, I’ll go with a bigger shutdown type in Peeke.
 

This still leaves McWard, Johansson, Woo the opportunity to get NHL experience as 7D, and covering injuries on the right side. 

In this scenario, what style of 2RD should we be targeting?

 

Hughes - Hronek

Soucy - [trade/UFA]
Hirose - Peeke

 

The first pair is presently the class of the NHL, providing a PPG offence, and 0 GA at 5v5 through 10% of the season. We’ll need to keep their minutes down to avoid burnout/injuries. Maybe the target is 21-23 minutes? 
 

That means the second pair will need to be reliable for 17-19 minutes, likely playing a shutdown role.

 

Assuming Soucy is playing at Cole’s current level (reliable 2nd pair) logging significant PK (and some 2nd unit PP) time, who would compliment him best?
 

Soucy brings size/hits, and a legitimate point shot. His puck movement is decent, but not great.

 

IMO, our target should be an effective shut down (or at least two-way) defender, with above average puck moving ability. 
 

Given Soucy will need support to graduate to top 4 minutes (ie. he shouldn’t be trusted to carry that pair), we should be targeting a proven vet.

 

This screams Chris Tanev to me, and I hope we make a play for him via trade or in UFA. Give him two years, so he can retire a Canuck, and mentor Hirose, McWard, Woo, etc. until Willander is ready.

 

Hughes - Hronek

Soucy - Tanev
Hirose - Peeke/Haakanpaa/Lyubushkin/Friedman
 

That looks solid, achievable, and affordable.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Huggy Bear

[Dom]

Not sure where to put this - as per Dhaliwal the Canucks are ' working the phone big time to reward the players ' 

 

Something big is coooooking. 

 

[NoCupSyndrome]

On 10/28/2023 at 11:24 AM, Huggy Bear said:

I agree with your assessment of Höglander.
 

Just questioning his fit on a team with two small bottom 6 centers.

 

He looked great last night, and would like to see him called up to cover top 6 injuries.

 

I will say, the fight in the dog rings true with Hogs. He is always in the difficult areas and clearly gets under the skin of the opposition. Multiple games now where the opposing dmen have been chasing him around instead of focusing on the game.

 

[Huggy Bear]

52 minutes ago, NoCupSyndrome said:

 

I will say, the fight in the dog rings true with Hogs. He is always in the difficult areas and clearly gets under the skin of the opposition. Multiple games now where the opposing dmen have been chasing him around instead of focusing on the game.

 

Good point about the size of the fight in the dog. It was cool to hear from RT that the twins come in at 7:30 with specific projects, including reviewing tape with Höglander. 

 

I’d like to see him given a steady role on the team, so he’s not worried about being scratched or demoted. Like how Kesler started as 4C. 
 

Give him a 4th line wing spot for the season, with the freedom to make some mistakes. 
 

It may not be ideal with a smallish center for now, but we can plug a big winger on the other side to offset that a bit. The way he’s playing now is adding tons of value.

 

When Blueger’s back…

 

Höglander - Blueger - Lafferty 

 

[Alflives]

Garland + for Tom Wilson. 
Put down the shoe polish and Shammy Allvin, there’s a trade to be made! 

[Huggy Bear]

Just now, Alflives said:

Garland + for Tom Wilson. 
Put down the shoe polish and Shammy Allvin, there’s a trade to be made! 

Oh damn. Yes please

[Alflives]

Just now, Huggy Bear said:

Oh damn. Yes please

I wonder if we can afford the cost?
Would be great to have Chris Tanev and Tom Wilson added. 

[Coconuts]

Wilson has a 6.5Mx7 extension kicking in next season, he's not going anywhere. 

[Huggy Bear]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I wonder if we can afford the cost?
Would be great to have Chris Tanev and Tom Wilson added. 

Washington just resigned him for 7 years at 29 yo, but there’s really no other player like him. 
 

If Jeannot (more affordable, and younger) costs a whole draft class, you would think Wilson would cost 2 1sts (or a first and premium prospect) plus a roster player?

Just now, Coconuts said:

Wilson has a 6.5Mx7 extension kicking in next season, he's not going anywhere. 

Probably right, but if they are forced into a rebuild sooner than expected, they might consider it

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Huggy Bear said:

Washington just resigned him for 7 years at 29 yo, but there’s really no other player like him. 
 

If Jeannot (more affordable, and younger) costs a whole draft class, you would think Wilson would cost 2 1sts (or a first and premium prospect) plus a roster player?

Probably right, but if they are forced into a rebuild sooner than expected, they might consider it

 

So long as Ovi is chasing the goal record I doubt they rebuild. They may continue to tinker and transition around him, but I doubt they rebuild. Ovi is their all-time great, he's after the goal record, I think they'll do their best to help him reach that goal while trying to balance getting younger alongside it. 

 

It'd be more of what we saw last trade deadline, moving out players for picks and young players. 

 

Moved out Orlov, turned that into Sandin. Moved out Hathaway, Johansson, and Eller for picks. 

 

But they also gave up a 3rd and a 7th for Edmundson at 50% to beef up their D in addition to Sandin. 

[Alflives]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

So long as Ovi is chasing the goal record I doubt they rebuild. They may continue to tinker and transition around him, but I doubt they rebuild. Ovi is their all-time great, he's after the goal record, I think they'll do their best to help him reach that goal while trying to balance getting younger alongside it. 

 

It'd be more of what we saw last trade deadline, moving out players for picks and young players. 

 

Moved out Orlov, turned that into Sandin. Moved out Hathaway, Johansson, and Eller for picks. 

 

But they also gave up a 3rd and a 7th for Edmundson at 50% to beef up their D in addition to Sandin. 

If their goal is the Gretzky record then isn’t Garland the kind of winger that would help attain it? 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If their goal is the Gretzky record then isn’t Garland the kind of winger that would help attain it? 

 

Not at the cost of Wilson, who is a rare breed of hockey player favourite as well as a fan favourite 

 

If the Caps wanted Garland they'd have him by now, Canucks would have probably happily taken back Mantha's expiring contract for example 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Coconuts

[Alflives]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

Not at the cost of Wilson, who is a rare breed of hockey player favourite as well as a fan favourite 

 

If the Caps wanted Garland they'd have him by now, Canucks would have probably happily taken back Mantha's expiring contract for example 

Maybe there is a Garland for Mantha trade in the works? Mantha is a big guy. He might do well in Tocchet’s philosophy of play. 

[Coconuts]

Just now, Alflives said:

Maybe there is a Garland for Mantha trade in the works? Mantha is a big guy. He might do well in Tocchet’s philosophy of play. 

 

Pretty sure I was proposing it in this thread at some point, the value of Mantha to the Canucks lies primarily in the fact that he's deal is up at the end of the season. It's not immediate cap relief but it'd have been a way to open cap sooner than later.

 

The question would have been whether the Caps valued Garland over incoming cap flex. 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

"everything on Garland has gone quiet".

[Provost]

1 minute ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

"everything on Garland has gone quiet".

Of the talk was about retaining 30% of his salary I would hope it has gone quiet.

 

No need to do that.  His negative value is 100% related to the flat cap, and not indicative of the player.  

Cap space opens up in the summer so teams will be signing worse players for more money.  He should have at least neutral value by then.

 

If we are retaining salary, it better include a cost controlled player on a team friendly contract coming back to offset that $1.5-2 million extra dead cap.

[WHL rocks]

On 10/31/2023 at 12:59 PM, Alflives said:

Maybe there is a Garland for Mantha trade in the works? Mantha is a big guy. He might do well in Tocchet’s philosophy of play. 

Caps not taking 3 years of Garland when Mantha is UFA at end of year. 

 

No team trading for him unless a similar contract goes the other way or we pay prospects or picks to offload him or we eat a significant portion of his contract. 

 

He has 1g 3Pts in 10 games so far. I don't even think a team would take him if we eat 30% like previously rumored. That would make him a $3.5 million dollar player and he's not that. 

 

 

[Rekker]

14 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Caps not taking 3 years of Garland when Mantha is UFA at end of year. 

 

No team trading for him unless a similar contract goes the other way or we pay prospects or picks to offload him or we eat a significant portion of his contract. 

 

He has 1g 3Pts in 10 games so far. I don't even think a team would take him if we eat 30% like previously rumored. That would make him a $3.5 million dollar player and he's not that. 

 

 

This, finally a realistic opinion. Luckily we are winning so no urgency here. Keep him, see if trade value can increase. Also, if this team at the deadline looks like a real cup contender, possible, do what you need to do to and trade him for the cap space needed for upgrades. 

[wai_lai416]

10 hours ago, Rekker said:

This, finally a realistic opinion. Luckily we are winning so no urgency here. Keep him, see if trade value can increase. Also, if this team at the deadline looks like a real cup contender, possible, do what you need to do to and trade him for the cap space needed for upgrades. 

I still stand by the longer we hold on to garland the higher the cost it would be to unload him if he continues to not produce. Sure there might be teams that view him as a potential top 6 in the right scenario.. but at the same time they’ll probably view garland as a reclamation project if he say finish in the 25-30 point range. It doesn’t matter if he plays hard plays the right way or whatever. At the end of the day he’s paid to produce. Not paid to play hard play the right way but can’t produce. I mean sure he can bounce back go on a streak and bring his trade value back up. But I think the chance of him continue to slump is higher playing on the bottom 6.. heck he was on the ice last night when his line scored 4 or 5 goals and he still only managed the 1 assist. 

[Provost]

11 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

"everything on Garland has gone quiet".

Of the talk was about retaining 30% of his salary I would hope it has gone quiet.

 

No need to do that.  His negative value is 100% related to the flat cap, and not indicative of the player.  

Cap space opens up in the summer so teams will be signing worse players for more money.  He should have at least neutral value by then.

 

If we are retaining salary, it better include a cost controlled player on a team friendly contract coming back to offset that $1.5-2 million extra dead cap.

 

We could also be giving him time in the top six to help pump and dump him.  He isn’t going to be padding his stats playing limited minutes with lower quality teammates.

[Elias Pettersson]

11 hours ago, Rekker said:

This, finally a realistic opinion. Luckily we are winning so no urgency here. Keep him, see if trade value can increase. Also, if this team at the deadline looks like a real cup contender, possible, do what you need to do to and trade him for the cap space needed for upgrades. 

We really look like we can do some damage in the playoffs. Beauvillier and Garland are eating up over $9 million in cap space. I mean that’s one Leon Draisaitl. 
 

I’m sure they are working the phones to try and reallocate that money. Retaining on Beauvillier is a no brainer. The harder thing to do is to retain on Garland who still has 2 years left after this one. 
 

If Carolina chokes out I could see a Beauvillier for Pesce trade. The numbers work. Just have to figure out what the “add” is. Most likely a 1st and a prospect. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Figure out a deal to turn a Garland or " extra forward " into Artem Zub. 

 

Right hander. Big, skates well, can move the puck, very good defensively. Can be physical and blocks shots.