[Article] Canucks will ‘follow the league rules’ on Pride Tape and specialty jerseys

[Swizzey]

8 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

I'm almost afraid to ask why you think there are not so many non-white hockey players....

I’m almost afraid to ask why you believe you haven’t achieved your most ambitious goals in life. 

[StrayDog]

1 minute ago, Swizzey said:

I’m almost afraid to ask why you believe you haven’t achieved your most ambitious goals in life. 

And my most ambitious goal would be what?

[Swizzey]

10 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

And my most ambitious goal would be what?

Looks like you have some thinking to do… 

 

Once you figure that out, you have some more thinking to do… 

[StrayDog]

2 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

Looks like you have some thinking to do… 

 

Once you figure that out, you have some more thinking to do… 

Unlike you, who has given up thinking, because you have it all figured out.....

[4petesake]

34 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

It's wild to me that you may actually believe this down to your core. You've said it so many times now. It's such a disappointing way for a brain to be programmed, but it truely seems to be your reality. Fascinating.

 

Kind of like believing that black qbs didn’t play in the NFL because of internal factors (like preferring to play in the CFL) as opposed to external factors (like the NFL thinking that blacks were not smart enough to play a cerebral position like qb.)

 

Thankfully Warren Moon changed all that after giving us 6 years of greatness.

[Swizzey]

5 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

Kind of like believing that black qbs didn’t play in the NFL because of internal factors (like preferring to play in the CFL) as opposed to external factors (like the NFL thinking that blacks were not smart enough to play a cerebral position like qb.)

 

Thankfully Warren Moon changed all that after giving us 6 years of greatness.

Love Warren Moon! Legend!

 

For the topic of blacks not playing QB in the NFL until they did, I do agree that external factors played the biggest the role in prohibiting that from evolving earlier. 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

Kind of like believing that black qbs didn’t play in the NFL because of internal factors (like preferring to play in the CFL) as opposed to external factors (like the NFL thinking that blacks were not smart enough to play a cerebral position like qb.)

 

Thankfully Warren Moon changed all that after giving us 6 years of greatness.

Moon was great as a Husky too. Great in college, the CFL, and the NFL. Great commentator too. 

[MeanSeanBean]

49 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

What is fascinating to me is how your brain is programmed to work in absolutes. As previously stated numerous times, I do believe in external factors at play in the underrepresentation of gays in the NHL. However, I don’t believe that the external factors are the primary reason for it. You on the other hand, disregard with disgust any suggestion that internal motivation is at play in the underrepresentation. 
 

What also fascinates me is the frothing at the mouth hatred and hailing insults to an observation about the underrepresentation from the group that falsely claims “inclusion”, “equality” and “acceptance”. It is an oxymoron. 
 

 

You said you believe the under representation is due to Queer people's 'nature'. Meaning you believe it's the majority of the reason and a biological trait. Your arguments have been shallow and misinformed, at their best. As someone who's worked in healthcare and sports rehabilitation their entire career, and been lucky enough to be around athletes and sports psychology, I know by both experience and evidence you're misguided.

 

Sports culture, and in particular hockey culture has a very long history of being unwelcoming to Queer folk. Is it all that shocking that many kids either drop out early, or grow up and aren't openly themselves due to the ramifications of the sports culture?

 

If you think me saying that your way of thinking is disappointing (which it is, very much so) is frothing and hailing insults I feel for your parents when they tried teach you better as a teenager. Why so sensitive? 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by MeanSeanBean

[Swizzey]

34 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

I’m almost afraid to ask why you believe you haven’t achieved your most ambitious goals in life. 

 

32 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

And my most ambitious goal would be what?

 

20 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

Looks like you have some thinking to do… 

 

Once you figure that out, you have some more thinking to do… 

 

14 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

Unlike you, who has given up thinking, because you have it all figured out.....

Speaking of lines of thought, or lack thereof, let’s hypothetically say your most ambitious goal is, I don’t know… being a professional basketball player as a gay man. 
 

You get cut from a team:

Swizzey: Maybe you didn’t work hard enough to make that team?

StrayDog: The coach is homophobe for not picking me. 

 

You work hard for a couple weeks before trying out for a different team and get cut:

Swizzey: Maybe, you’re not tall enough to play Center at 5’4.

StrayDog: That coach and team is a homophobe too. 

 

You train hard for a few weeks learning to become a point guard and get cut from that team too:

Swizzey: Maybe you’re just not going to be good enough to play basketball at a high level. 
StrayDog: All of basketball is homophobic!

 

You try out for ballet and get cut from that too: 

Swizzey: Maybe you didn’t work hard and long enough to be a ballet dancer. 
StrayDog: They are bigoted and homophobic too! The world is homphobic! 
 

*StrayDog enters the Canuck Forum chat room.*

[Swizzey]

3 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

You said you believe the under representation is due to Queer people's 'nature'. Meaning you believe it's the majority of the reason and a biological trait. Your arguments have been shallow and misinformed, at their best. As someone who's worked in healthcare and sports rehabilitation their entire career, and been lucky enough to be around athletes and sports psychology, I know by both experience and evidence you're misguided.

 

Sports culture, and in particular hockey culture has a very long history of being unwelcoming to Queer folk. Is it all that shocking that many kids either drop out early, or grow up and aren't openly themselves due to the ramifications of the sports culture?

 

If you think me saying that your way of thinking is disappointing (which it is, very much so) is frothing and hailing insults I feel for your parents when they tried teach you better as a teenager. Why so sensitive? 

 

Ex-professional athlete here. I’ve walked that path as well and yes, everyone’s path is unique. I know from experience as well, that in almost 3 decades of playing a sport from youth to its highest level, I can testify 0, yes 0, first hand instances of mistreatment of gays in my sport. I know how you like to twist statements and words so let me clarify. Because I have walked this path and experienced it, I do not nullify the facts that gays, and others, experience mistreatment. I do however, question the mass oppression within sport that is suggested on this forum.

[StrayDog]

2 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

 

 

 

Speaking of lines of thought, or lack thereof, let’s hypothetically say your most ambitious goal is, I don’t know… being a professional basketball player as a gay man. 
 

You get cut from a team:

Swizzey: Maybe you didn’t work hard enough to make that team?

StrayDog: The coach is homophobe for not picking me. 

 

You work hard for a couple weeks before trying out for a different team and get cut:

Swizzey: Maybe, you’re not tall enough to play Center at 5’4.

StrayDog: That coach and team is a homophobe too. 

 

You train hard for a few weeks learning to become a point guard and get cut from that team too:

Swizzey: Maybe you’re just not going to be good enough to play basketball at a high level. 
StrayDog: All of basketball is homophobic!

 

You try out for ballet and get cut from that too: 

Swizzey: Maybe you didn’t work hard and long enough to be a ballet dancer. 
StrayDog: They are bigoted and homophobic too! The world is homphobic! 
 

*StrayDog enters the Canuck Forum chat room.*

Let's go with something less hypothetical:

Swizzey: Homophobic comment.

StrayDog: That's homophobic!

Swizzey: Doubles down on homophobic comment.

StrayDog: You are a homophobe!

Swizzey: Triples down on homophobic content and tries deflecting with bricklaying nurses.

StrayDog: Nah, bro. You're still a homophobe.

*Notice a pattern yet?*

 

[Swizzey]

9 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

 

 

 

Speaking of lines of thought, or lack thereof, let’s hypothetically say your most ambitious goal is, I don’t know… being a professional basketball player as a gay man. 
 

You get cut from a team:

Swizzey: Maybe you didn’t work hard enough to make that team?

StrayDog: The coach is homophobe for not picking me. 

 

You work hard for a couple weeks before trying out for a different team and get cut:

Swizzey: Maybe, you’re not tall enough to play Center at 5’4.

StrayDog: That coach and team is a homophobe too. 

 

You train hard for a few weeks learning to become a point guard and get cut from that team too:

Swizzey: Maybe you’re just not going to be good enough to play basketball at a high level. 
StrayDog: All of basketball is homophobic!

 

You try out for ballet and get cut from that too: 

Swizzey: Maybe you didn’t work hard and long enough to be a ballet dancer. 
StrayDog: They are bigoted and homophobic too! The world is homphobic! 
 

*StrayDog enters the Canuck Forum chat room.*

 

2 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

Let's go with something less hypothetical:

Swizzey: Homophobic comment.

StrayDog: That's homophobic!

Swizzey: Doubles down on homophobic comment.

StrayDog: You are a homophobe!

Swizzey: Triples down on homophobic content and tries deflecting with bricklaying nurses.

StrayDog: Nah, bro. You're still a homophobe.

*Notice a pattern yet?*

 

Everything is homophobic to you your brain is programmed to view everything as homophobic and insulting. How do you get through a day man!? Sounds exhausting.

[StrayDog]

1 minute ago, Swizzey said:

 

Everything is homophobic to you your brain is programmed to view everything as homophobic and insulting. How do you get through a day man!? Sounds exhausting.

Nope, only thing homophobic around here to me is you.

[Swizzey]

16 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

If you think me saying that your way of thinking is disappointing (which it is, very much so) is frothing and hailing insults I feel for your parents when they tried teach you better as a teenager. Why so sensitive? 

I have been dialogue with 3-4 different comrades on here who have been hurling insults and name calling in response my cordial responses. If none come from you I apologize and retract that comment meant for someone else. My bad bro…

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, Swizzey said:

I have been dialogue with 3-4 different comrades on here who have been hurling insults and name calling in response my cordial responses. If none come from you I apologize and retract that comment meant for someone else. My bad bro…

This is going to be a premature, cause I reckon you'll take this as an insult.

 

11 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

Ex-professional athlete here. I’ve walked that path as well and yes, everyone’s path is unique. I know from experience as well, that in almost 3 decades of playing a sport from youth to its highest level, I can testify 0, yes 0, first hand instances of mistreatment of gays in my sport. I know how you like to twist statements and words so let me clarify. Because I have walked this path and experienced it, I do not nullify the facts that gays, and others, experience mistreatment. I do however, question the mass oppression within sport that is suggested on this forum.

I don't believe this in the slightest. Again, worked with athletes litterally my entire adult life. You're either the only 30 year pro in the world who somehow skated around the very prevalent issue of homophobia in nearly all team sports culture, from youth to pro, or you aren't being entirely truthful. I'll use my deductive reasoning to make up my mind on that one.

[4petesake]

33 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

Love Warren Moon! Legend!

 

For the topic of blacks not playing QB in the NFL until they did, I do agree that external factors played the biggest the role in prohibiting that from evolving earlier. 

 

I just can’t figure out why you’re so hung up on this whole internal/external thing. Pride night is, was?, about making everyone from the lgbtq+ community feel safe and welcome in the arena and on the ice. Doesn’t matter if it’s 1, 10, or 100 people that have courage to try and make it, and once even one succeeds some kid in the stands sees someone like him/herself and thinks that maybe there is room for them too. 

 

Brian Burke’s son Brendan almost quit hockey because he was so afraid of his teammates finding out he was gay. Imagine having to hide who you are from the world and your family and feeling like it is some dirty secret to be ashamed of. He only came out in 2007, the year before he died.

 

During high school, Burke played hockey as a goaltender on the varsity team, but quit because he worried that his teammates would discover that he was gay. Instead, he told his family that he wanted to quit rather than spend the season on the bench.

[toochmahgooch]

1 hour ago, StrayDog said:

I'm almost afraid to ask why you think there are not so many non-white hockey players....

Most African Americans choose to play other sports like basketball, football due to their unbelievable athleticism and lower cost per year for playing the sport. Hockey is extremely expensive, one of the reasons I was never able to play as well. 

[toochmahgooch]

1 hour ago, Swizzey said:

 

 

 

Speaking of lines of thought, or lack thereof, let’s hypothetically say your most ambitious goal is, I don’t know… being a professional basketball player as a gay man. 
 

You get cut from a team:

Swizzey: Maybe you didn’t work hard enough to make that team?

StrayDog: The coach is homophobe for not picking me. 

 

You work hard for a couple weeks before trying out for a different team and get cut:

Swizzey: Maybe, you’re not tall enough to play Center at 5’4.

StrayDog: That coach and team is a homophobe too. 

 

You train hard for a few weeks learning to become a point guard and get cut from that team too:

Swizzey: Maybe you’re just not going to be good enough to play basketball at a high level. 
StrayDog: All of basketball is homophobic!

 

You try out for ballet and get cut from that too: 

Swizzey: Maybe you didn’t work hard and long enough to be a ballet dancer. 
StrayDog: They are bigoted and homophobic too! The world is homphobic! 
 

*StrayDog enters the Canuck Forum chat room.*

The guy is completely unhinged. 

[Swizzey]

7 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

This is going to be a premature, cause I reckon you'll take this as an insult.

 

I don't believe this in the slightest. Again, worked with athletes litterally my entire adult life. You're either the only 30 year pro in the world who somehow skated around the very prevalent issue of homophobia in nearly all team sports culture, from youth to pro, or you aren't being entirely truthful. I'll use my deductive reasoning to make up my mind on that one.

Entirely true and entirely truthful. 

[Alflives]

7 hours ago, Swizzey said:

Ex-professional athlete here. I’ve walked that path as well and yes, everyone’s path is unique. I know from experience as well, that in almost 3 decades of playing a sport from youth to its highest level, I can testify 0, yes 0, first hand instances of mistreatment of gays in my sport. I know how you like to twist statements and words so let me clarify. Because I have walked this path and experienced it, I do not nullify the facts that gays, and others, experience mistreatment. I do however, question the mass oppression within sport that is suggested on this forum.

Which sport?  

[Swizzey]

Just now, Alflives said:

Which sport?  

Soccer

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Swizzey said:

Soccer

Alf was a pro Surfer. 

[StrayDog]

6 hours ago, toochmahgooch said:

The guy is completely unhinged. 

When you attend funerals for children who have taken their own lives because of abuse due to nothing more than their sexuality it might "unhinge" you a bit. When you've taken in high school kids who have been turned out of their own homes due to their sexuality it might "unhinge" you. When you have a child who is part of the LGBTQ community it might "unhinge" you when bigots say bigoted things that are directed - directly or indirectly - at your child. 

You, Swizzey, and all the others who back homophobic thought processes are the cause of me being "unhinged". If the choice is unhinged or bigotry, I know where I stand. And I know where you stand too.

[MeanSeanBean]

4 hours ago, Swizzey said:

Entirely true and entirely truthful. 

Alrighty then, we'll be at an impasse with this conversation. Because in no world do I think a 30 year athlete (which is an extremely long career in any sport edit( I see above you said soccer, who's professional career often spans about 7-11 years due to the extremely physical nature of the sport and few athletes playing into their late 30s ), managed to be completely oblivious to the homophobic culture of organized sports (which is extremely well known), will then spend their retirement arguing why bricklayers are often male on a fan forum. Also why would you go 4 or 5 pages into this conversation and then mention that on passing. If you had first hand, personal experiences on a subject that was so likely to be wrong, you would have started with that instead of spending so many pages focusing on the very weak argument about bricklaying. None of the way this conversation played out makes it any more believable on top of the far-fetched nature of what your describing.

 

I take everything I read on the internet with a grain of salt, and everything I have learned about sports culture and athlete from my institutional training and degrees and many years of work experience with athletes says your statement his fabricated to make a point. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by MeanSeanBean

[Swizzey]

1 hour ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Alrighty then, we'll be at an impasse with this conversation. Because in no world do I think a 30 year athlete (which is an extremely long career in any sport edit( I see above you said soccer, who's professional career often spans about 7-11 years due to the extremely physical nature of the sport and few athletes playing into their late 30s ), managed to be completely oblivious to the homophobic culture of organized sports (which is extremely well known), will then spend their retirement arguing why bricklayers are often male on a fan forum. Also why would you go 4 or 5 pages into this conversation and then mention that on passing. If you had first hand, personal experiences on a subject that was so likely to be wrong, you would have started with that instead of spending so many pages focusing on the very weak argument about bricklaying. None of the way this conversation played out makes it any more believable on top of the far-fetched nature of what your describing.

 

I take everything I read on the internet with a grain of salt, and everything I have learned about sports culture and athlete from my institutional training and degrees and many years of work experience with athletes says your statement his fabricated to make a point. 

12 hours ago, Swizzey said:

Ex-professional athlete here. I’ve walked that path as well and yes, everyone’s path is unique. I know from experience as well, that in almost 3 decades of playing a sport from youth to its highest level, I can testify 0, yes 0, first hand instances of mistreatment of gays in my sport. I know how you like to twist statements and words so let me clarify. Because I have walked this path and experienced it, I do not nullify the facts that gays, and others, experience mistreatment. I do however, question the mass oppression within sport that is suggested on this forum.