madrigal77 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 19 hours ago, aGENT said: They told us why they didn't "like" them FYI. Rainbow is a religious symbol...??? What? They have the right to choose not to participate. We have the right to call them on condoning bigotry. Ain't freedom grand. Yes, the rainbow is a religious symbol to the Abrahamic religions. For only like the past few thousand years. So they might not feel comfortable or willing to wear it in honour of gays. Doesn't mean they're "bigots" or "hate" anyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrigal77 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 16 hours ago, StrayDog said: Let's go with something less hypothetical: Swizzey: Homophobic comment. StrayDog: That's homophobic! Swizzey: Doubles down on homophobic comment. StrayDog: You are a homophobe! Swizzey: Triples down on homophobic content and tries deflecting with bricklaying nurses. StrayDog: Nah, bro. You're still a homophobe. *Notice a pattern yet?* Literally haven't seen him make one "homophobic" comment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, madrigal77 said: Literally haven't seen him make one "homophobic" comment. he's trying to define what LGBTQ+ people are via some odd concept of innate characteristics. Its literally the definition of homophobic, which includes things like that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, madrigal77 said: Literally haven't seen him make one "homophobic" comment. I agree. The terms racist, homophobic, sexist are thrown around way to easily nowadays. You can have a point of view against the grain of societys current wave of thought and not be any of the above. I've grown very tired of this "how dare you say that" vane of thought. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: he's trying to define what LGBTQ+ people are via some odd concept of innate characteristics. Its literally the definition of homophobic, which includes things like that. I don't see it, but to be honest, I haven't been keeping up with the entire thread. Generalizing based on characteristics that are real is not homophobic in my opinion. Maybe somewhat old school, which I'm fine with. Edited October 16, 2023 by Rekker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Rekker said: Generalizing based on characteristics that are real is not homophobic in my opinion. That would be called stereotyping. It's usually the basis for almost all forms of bigotry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Rekker said: I don't see it, but to be honest, I haven't been keeping up with the entire thread. Generalizing based on characteristics that are real is not homophobic in my opinion. Maybe somewhat old school. who defines whats "real"? I mean really think about this. Sure some things have been socially OK to say for a long time, it doesn't make them true. The idea that gay men have some set of characteristics that keeps them out of the NHL is vile. Its really awful that anyone would promote that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrigal77 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Rekker said: I agree. The terms racist, homophobic, sexist are thrown around way to easily nowadays. You can have a point of view against the grain of societys current wave of thought and not be any of the above. I've grown very tired of this "how dare you say that" vane of thought. Don't you know? Anyone who doesn't 100% agree with 100% of everything a gay person says or does, has a "phobia". Can't be that they just have a different opinion than them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, madrigal77 said: Don't you know? Anyone who doesn't 100% agree with 100% of everything a gay person says or does, has a "phobia". Can't be that they just have a different opinion than them. sorry you can't claim a group of people are fundamentally different like that poster is trying to do, and play the "its just my opinion, man" card. Some things are just wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, StrayDog said: That would be called stereotyping. It's usually the basis for almost all forms of bigotry. I'm fine with stereotyping, always have been. If used properly and responsibly. 8 minutes ago, Bob Long said: who defines whats "real"? I mean really think about this. Sure some things have been socially OK to say for a long time, it doesn't make them true. The idea that gay men have some set of characteristics that keeps them out of the NHL is vile. Its really awful that anyone would promote that. Ya, I can't say I've read all the comments, but I haven't read anything offside yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Swizzey said: That’s a lot of content and genuinely going to get into some of those articles at a later time (heading to work). That is literally what I was looking for from StrayDog and Agent that have been hurling insults without actually establishing a basis to their point. Thank you for those links MeanSeanBean. I sincerely hope you do. If you did spend part of your career coaching people it's better you change your outdated ways of thinking late then never. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, madrigal77 said: Don't you know? Anyone who doesn't 100% agree with 100% of everything a gay person says or does, has a "phobia". Can't be that they just have a different opinion than them. Exactly. Again, I am busy at work so have to go and will return to this topic as it has been a sore spot of mine for awhile now. For instance, I can't stand the native pre game ceremonies at the games, or graduations, staff meetings, etc. I don't like rainbow tape. I am NOT racist or homophobic and have native and gay friends and teammates that will support that. I believe there is a time and place for this stuff and don't agree with having agendas forced upon me. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, Rekker said: I'm fine with stereotyping, always have been. If used properly and responsibly. How does one use sterotyping properly and responsibly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, StrayDog said: How does one use sterotyping properly and responsibly? I use it to make desions, part of the process. Sometimes more than others. Sometimes never. So on your high horse you have never used some form of stereotyping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Rekker said: I use it to make desions, part of the process. Sometimes more than others. Sometimes never. So on your high horse you have never used some form of stereotyping? And you don't think that using a stereotype to make a decision is a problem? I have used stereotyping on occasion, when I was younger. I try hard not to make those same mistakes now I'm older. Wasn't right then, still not right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, StrayDog said: And you don't think that using a stereotype to make a decision is a problem? I have used stereotyping on occasion, when I was younger. I try hard not to make those same mistakes now I'm older. Wasn't right then, still not right now. It's real world. But I will preface with I will give most anyone a chance. Here's an example today. I am a tradesmen of 30 years and always fully booked and busy. Teachers have been historically cheap and difficult to work for. I have only time for one more call today and had to choose between a teacher and tradesmen. I chose the tradesmen based on my stereotyping. Of course there will always be examples either way but in this instance I had to make a decision based on stereotype and percentages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 18 minutes ago, Rekker said: I use it to make desions, part of the process. Sometimes more than others. Sometimes never. So on your high horse you have never used some form of stereotyping? The subject at hand, is a poster is making the statement that the under representation of queer men in the NHL is due to them being more suited for being a professional dancer then a hockey player. This is in reference to them being more physically and mentally suited to dance then hockey, and not because organized sports have a long history of homophobic culture that leads many Gay folk to drop out early or never start in the first place. Professional dance has a higher percentage of Gay men in it, because the culture was and is accepting to people with that sexual orientation. While hockey has a much lower representation because gay men may not have signed up, or stayed with the sport. That why we see Queer people on Womans hockey much more frequently. Woman organized sports have less of the cultural homophobia and organized men sports. Not because biologically Gay men are better at dancing then hockey, like being stated. our of curiosity, does your "old school" thinking that's an acceptable usage of stereotyping? You stepped into the conversation to say you think stereotyping is ok, so when it's layed out infront of you I'm curious if you still do. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Rekker said: It's real world. But I will preface with I will give most anyone a chance. Here's an example today. I am a tradesmen of 30 years and always fully booked and busy. Teachers have been historically cheap and difficult to work for. I have only time for one more call today and had to choose between a teacher and tradesmen. I chose the tradesmen based on my stereotyping. Of course there will always be examples either way but in this instance I had to make a decision based on stereotype and percentages. Ok, let's play the stereotype game. So around 50 straight white male tradesman; says he has native and gay friends and that makes him not racist/ homophobic. Made a point of mentioning his team so still plays some form or organized beer league sport. Canucks fan. So a poorly read and undereducated person who peaked sportswise in high school (aka Al Bundy Syndrome). Believes his gay and native friends are totally on board with his crass jokes at their expense (because they're "the good ones") as long as they don't make straight white jokes. Will riot if things don't go his way, and really thinks women don't belong in the workplace but will say otherwise or his wife will cut him off. Not an American but still thinks Trump has a lot of really good ideas. Did I do it right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said: The subject at hand, is a poster is making the statement that the under representation of queer men in the NHL is due to them being more suited for being a professional dancer then a hockey player. This is in reference to them being more physically and mentally suited to dance then hockey, and not because organized sports have a long history of homophobic culture that leads many Gay folk to drop out early or never start in the first place. Professional dance has a higher percentage of Gay men in it, because the culture was and is accepting to people with that sexual orientation. While hockey has a much lower representation because gay men may not have signed up, or stayed with the sport. That why we see Queer people on Womans hockey much more frequently. Woman organized sports have less of the cultural homophobia and organized men sports. Not because biologically Gay men are better at dancing then hockey, like being stated. our of curiosity, does your "old school" thinking that's an acceptable usage of stereotyping? You stepped into the conversation to say you think stereotyping is ok, so when it's layed out infront of you I'm curious if you still do. Honestly, busy at work. I will get back to the subject. But quick answer, I have no issues stereotyping if used the right way. No problem at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Rekker said: Honestly, busy at work. I will get back to the subject. But quick answer, I have no issues stereotyping if used the right way. No problem at all. The right way? In this case it's down playing the effects that a inherent homophobic culture has on young people wanting to get into organized sports. The entire reason why this is a conversation we have to be having in the first place. I sure as shit hope that wouldn't fall under your code of stereotyping ethics... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, MeanSeanBean said: The right way? In this case it's down playing the effects that a inherent homophobic culture has on young people wanting to get into organized sports. The entire reason why this is a conversation we have to be having in the first place. I sure as shit hope that wouldn't fall under your code of stereotyping ethics... Right as opposed to left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, madrigal77 said: Yes, the rainbow is a religious symbol to the Abrahamic religions. For only like the past few thousand years. So they might not feel comfortable or willing to wear it in honour of gays. Doesn't mean they're "bigots" or "hate" anyone. It's kind of exactly what it means. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: It's kind of exactly what it means. Poster didn't know what the word censorship ment either, for what it's worth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Swizzey said: That’s a lot of content and genuinely going to get into some of those articles at a later time (heading to work). That is literally what I was looking for from StrayDog and Agent that have been hurling insults without actually establishing a basis to their point. Thank you for those links MeanSeanBean. Pardon me, but when did I "hurl insults" at anyone in this thread? Pointing out out bigoted actions, statements etc is not "hurling insults" FWIW. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, aGENT said: It's kind of exactly what it means. no. Rainbows are for religion alone. It is written. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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