[Article] Canucks will ‘follow the league rules’ on Pride Tape and specialty jerseys

[Surtur]

8 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

It's not odd in the slightest. It's litterally how progress has been made in every step of society. Marginalized groups through out modern society have needed the support of larger, un-marginalized to make progress. 

 

People would still be slaves if others had not stepped forward to make change. No one would understand the tribulations of Queer people if the masses had not stood beside them through the 70-80s during the Gay Liberation movement. The average Canadian wouldn't have the slightest clue over the damage caused by residential schools to our Indigenous population if it didn't become mainstream and people started wearing Orange in support. 

 

This isn't odd, at all. It's how society functions and progresses. 

100% missed the point of my post. nice try though.

[madrigal77]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

 

I'm saying that actively refusing to wearr a Pride jersey, who's entire purpose is to promote inclusivity in hockey for LGBTQ+ people, based on "religious" reasons (bigotry), is bigotry (or at best, condoning of bigotry).

 

That’s not bigotry. It’s bigotry not to accept other people’s religious beliefs. Bigotry goes both ways. You are being bigoted towards the abrahamic religions. What if people would have been willing to wear the jersey if they had come up with their own design and not appropriated their religious symbol?

[madrigal77]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

But why not give a reason?

 

Imagine for a minute that someone refused to wear a Diwali jersey. Or a hockey fights cancer jersey. You would think that person was a moron. 

Because any reason given will not be accepted by the rainbow cult mob, so what’s the point?

[madrigal77]

1 hour ago, DSVII said:

 

You do realize how that wording can make you look?

Again, our public discourse in the last few years has been polluted by right wing reactionists, i'd be cautious about the media you're consuming about these initiatives.

 

 

I do agree the media should have focused on the hundreds of other players who wore the jerseys instead. That is their fault.

 

Do you agree with the decision to ban the pride tape? Again, you championed individual expression when it came to not wearing the jersey, how about taking away the player's individual choice of expression here? 

 

On the note of being singled and picked out, none of the players in question lost anything in earnings/games played or suffered any negative repercussions in their career. Why are you making a big deal out of this? People have expressed disappointment in those player's choices but no one's done anything as severe as say....death threats for losing a playoff series. that Reimer himself has suffered in his career. Compared to being picked on from Pride that's probably nothing.

 

I don't recall Kuzmenko getting any singling out or harassed from this either.

 

 

 

I’m not consuming any media on the subject lol. 
 

Banning the tape is the same thing. It’s about being inclusive for everyone. Any player that didn’t have it would have been singled out and picked on. 
 

They may not have lost anything, but the mob did come after them. Some demanding contracts be terminated and press demanding million dollar fines. It’s absurd. 
 

Kuzmenko did get singled out with some posters on the old forums saying how upset they were with him. 

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, madrigal77 said:

Because any reason given will not be accepted by the rainbow cult mob, so what’s the point?

 

Doubling down I see.

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, madrigal77 said:

That’s not bigotry. It’s bigotry not to accept other people’s religious beliefs. Bigotry goes both ways. You are being bigoted towards the abrahamic religions. What if people would have been willing to wear the jersey if they had come up with their own design and not appropriated their religious symbol?

 

Acknowledging religious freedom exists does not mean that practitioners are exempt from consequences. There's plenty of religious people that don't hold bigoted views towards any number of marginalized groups. Those that do, can and should be held accountable for their bigotry. I'm not against religion, I'm against bigotry. It's not my fault that a few people decided to try to hide their bigotry behind religion. 

 

[StrayDog]

1 hour ago, madrigal77 said:

Because any reason given will not be accepted by the rainbow cult mob, so what’s the point?

Wait. Are we talking about Pride or Christianity here? I've lost track of my rainbow cults....

[StrayDog]

4 hours ago, Rekker said:

Too much. I have my way, it works, I am a good fair person. You be you, I'll be me.

Too much wrong or too much right? You honestly seem like an overall decent guy, just with some old world thinking that really doesn't cut it today. You say you're willing to learn and accept new things. Is it possible this could be one of them? To be a little more open about what happens to these marginalized groups?

As others have said, sport has been intertwined with politics from the get-go. I understand not wanting it all there; I would prefer it gone too. But the only way it goes away is when these issues are resolved, and these event night are part of that process.

[Master Mind]

1 hour ago, madrigal77 said:

Because any reason given will not be accepted

 

This is true, as evidenced by outrage pouring in towards Provorov before a statement was made.

 

Even the fear of backlash in Russia was not an acceptable answer to many. To my surprise, some people said they would wear the jersey even if there was risk to their family.

 

Unfortunately once religious beliefs were brought up, it fueled those who already dislike religion.

[Rekker]

10 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

Too much wrong or too much right? You honestly seem like an overall decent guy, just with some old world thinking that really doesn't cut it today. You say you're willing to learn and accept new things. Is it possible this could be one of them? To be a little more open about what happens to these marginalized groups?

As others have said, sport has been intertwined with politics from the get-go. I understand not wanting it all there; I would prefer it gone too. But the only way it goes away is when these issues are resolved, and these event night are part of that process.

I can work on it. Change is the only constant, but at the moment, I can only be honest with how I feel. I like my sports separated from mostly all else. 

[StrayDog]

1 minute ago, Rekker said:

I can work on it. Change is the only constant, but at the moment, I can only be honest with how I feel. I like my sports separated from mostly all else. 

Working on it is honestly the best answer you can give. Thanks for that.

[4petesake]

9 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

Too much wrong or too much right? You honestly seem like an overall decent guy, just with some old world thinking that really doesn't cut it today. You say you're willing to learn and accept new things. Is it possible this could be one of them? To be a little more open about what happens to these marginalized groups?

As others have said, sport has been intertwined with politics from the get-go. I understand not wanting it all there; I would prefer it gone too. But the only way it goes away is when these issues are resolved, and these event night are part of that process.

 

I completely understand people who don’t want these issues mixed with sports, like ‘the good old days.’ A couple of problems with that thinking though - what seemed like good old days to one were not good old days for others. Change never comes easy.  When LeBron James made comments about social injustice and police violence against poc Laura Ingraham infamously told him to “shut up and dribble.” That’s effectively what we are saying when we say we don’t want other issues mixed with sports.
 

Another is the idea that Provorov/Reimer/Staal et al have the right to make a statement by not wearing a jersey (they certainly do) but others have no right to respond (nonsense).

 

 

[4petesake]

38 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

This is true, as evidenced by outrage pouring in towards Provorov before a statement was made.

 

Even the fear of backlash in Russia was not an acceptable answer to many. To my surprise, some people said they would wear the jersey even if there was risk to their family.

 

Unfortunately once religious beliefs were brought up, it fueled those who already dislike religion.

That wasn’t some people, that was only me and I didn’t say that Provorov should do that. I was responding to @Elias Pettersson who asked what I would do if someone was threatening violence on my brother if I wore the jersey. I said that I would wear it anyway because I wouldn’t submit to blackmail and threats.  (I would expect my brother to do the same if the roles were reversed.)
 

Sorry to surprise you again but I still stand by that statement.

[Master Mind]

2 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

That wasn’t some people, that was only me and I didn’t say that Provorov should do that. I was responding to @Elias Pettersson who asked what I would do if someone was threatening violence on my brother if I wore the jersey. I said that I would wear it anyway because I wouldn’t submit to blackmail and threats.  (I would expect my brother to do the same if the roles were reversed.)
 

Sorry to surprise you again but I still stand by that statement.

 

I do remember you being one of the members to say you would wear it, but there were others who said they would too.

 

I wasn't meaning that you said Provorov should wear it, I was just commenting on what you said you would do in that position.

[Swizzey]

15 hours ago, 4petesake said:

 

So if you support someone’s right not to wear the jersey I can assume you support the right to wear the rainbow jersey for the other 740 players that want to wear it.

That makes sense to me. Instead of having a governing body telling everyone whether they “have to” or “can’t” wear a particular jersey for warmup, why not just open it up for players to organize and decide what they want to do. 

[5forFighting]

19 hours ago, aGENT said:

By actively, vocally refusing to support inclusion of a group of people for simply being who they are...

If everyone was who they are then everyone should have their night, right?

[madrigal77]

19 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Acknowledging religious freedom exists does not mean that practitioners are exempt from consequences. There's plenty of religious people that don't hold bigoted views towards any number of marginalized groups. Those that do, can and should be held accountable for their bigotry. I'm not against religion, I'm against bigotry. It's not my fault that a few people decided to try to hide their bigotry behind religion. 

 

Are you ok? I'm worried about your mental health. I already gave you an example of how they might not want to wear it while not being bigoted. Is your assertion that the rainbow ONLY means gay, and can't mean anything else to anyone else, despite only starting to mean gay in the late 70's? When it's had different meanings to different cultures and religions for thousands of years?

[RWJC]

 

 

 

 

[nivlek604]

Rules is rules 

[IBatch]

On 10/14/2023 at 11:15 AM, D.B Cooper said:

Where did I mention the wage gap?  
But sure, I’ll bite.  
I run a large metal shop. 
I have 5 female welder/fabricators out of 42.  
Let’s start with, why only 5?  That doesn’t seem fair.   Maybe because women aren’t as into getting into trades as men.   
Also, 4 of them are in the top 5% of wages.  1 is an apprentice. 
Paygap is a fallacy. 

What they believe and what is reality are two different things. 
Please list these crazy rights that men have, that women don’t in Canada.  

There is a clear side where this mentality comes from, and it is almost always the far left. 
Also, wagegaps, equality, forcing employees to do things against their beliefs…... All politically driven. 

Yes, not a fan of hard leftists. 
I’ll tell you that for sure. 
Id never vote conservative, but someone like Trudeau won’t be getting my vote either.  
 

But let me guess

We don’t agree, so I’m a bigot?

Youve been throwing that around a lot. 

Um ok.   Tell that to my wife, who after getting a degree from McGill, first job in the early 90's was as a teller.  Same degree would get a middle management government job if your were a male in the 60's and 70's. 

 

  Then watched less experienced, less educated, college certified males, get the jobs she was more qualified to get (in finance).   And it went on like that for twenty years.   Whenever she changed firms, took 2-3 people to fill her shoes (every 7-8 years she'd seen enough).., it for sure wasn't because of much else other than her boobs.   Even now, as a partner (ownership) in her firm, and one of the highest producers, there is a disparity between what she makes and her "partners", some of which she carry's.   Won't get into the ass slapping, get my coffee stuff, or basically being demoted and a big pay cut for getting pregnant (2001). 

 

As far as trades go, that I get, having my own for a couple decades.   We'd hire ladies, they'd work hard, but weren't physically able to produce (lift) the sort of things the rest of crew(s) could.   Easy to set it up so it worked.   Grandmom used to say, if I called the fire department she sure as heck wouldn't want a lady carrying her down the ladder lol.    Yes, there still is a wage gap for the same things, it's a lot better, but it still exists, a welding shop is a pretty small example isn't it? 

Edited October 18, 2023 by IBatch

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, madrigal77 said:

Are you ok? I'm worried about your mental health. I already gave you an example of how they might not want to wear it while not being bigoted. Is your assertion that the rainbow ONLY means gay, and can't mean anything else to anyone else, despite only starting to mean gay in the late 70's? When it's had different meanings to different cultures and religions for thousands of years?

 

5 hours ago, 5forFighting said:

If everyone was who they are then everyone should have their night, right?

 

[Snoop Hogg]

If San Francisco had a team, would every night be pride night? 

[5forFighting]

19 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

 

 

Should Christians have their own nights? Muslims? Redheads? Polygamists? Arachnaphobiacs?

 

Everyone being themselves shouldn't correlate to a night for everyone so they feel included. 

 

I have never known the NHL not to be inclusive of everyone except for disabled people. If Conor Bedard was black, gay and a Conservative, I still believe he gets selected 1st overall. 

 

 

 

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

 

Should Christians have their own nights? Muslims? Redheads? Polygamists? Arachnaphobiacs?

 

Everyone being themselves shouldn't correlate to a night for everyone so they feel included. 

 

I have never known the NHL not to be inclusive of everyone except for disabled people. If Conor Bedard was black, gay and a Conservative, I still believe he gets selected 1st overall. 

 

 

 

 

They have religious freedom. Freedom to practice their religion without persecution. That freedom doesn't extend to consequences for bigoted actions and words in the name of said religion though.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

They have religious freedom. Freedom to practice their religion without persecution. That freedom doesn't extend to consequences for bigoted actions and words in the name of said religion though.

 

hey man thats not fair tho. 

 

Its funny what people think the charter does for them. Its a shield, not a sword.