[Article] Canucks will ‘follow the league rules’ on Pride Tape and specialty jerseys

[TheGuardian]

47 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

really?

 

Then they better ban this crap as well.  If players can not take a stand or make a statement about specific and significant social issues than the NHLPA needs to take a stand about these god awful jersey advertisements as well then.

 

But, we know they won't because social issues are one thing.  Advertisements make $

 

Are you that self centered? Paranoid?

Clearly one is pushing a life style and the other a life choice.

 

I also just want a game not a political statement. The game is to leave the world's issues behind for a few hours and find something totally useless and has not real effect on life overall.

 

Do you spend every hour of every day thinking about this issue? Your clothes are rainbow? Car/bike? Shoes? You have the ability to show that personally to everyone everyday IMO if you are not doing that you are a coward hiding behind some belief that you are entitled to make someone else parade your ideology, thoughts or life style/choice/differences. 

 

What makes these people so special? Is it because in antiquity they were ostracized and treated very badly, in antiquity. You live in a country that accepted these differences and has bent over backwards to create acceptance. 

 

Why is it everyone else that isn't following and supporting THIS issue is a bigot or insensitive? Is it really necessary to push these issues to the point of annoyance? 

 

I will get flamed now.

[24K]

3 hours ago, psharpe07 said:

You can't force someone to wear something they don't support.  Bottom line.  The players are there to play hockey, that's what they get paid to do, not support social justice causes.  They can do that on their own time and that's the way it should be. 

 

 

I argue they don't have to wear any special event jersey. Just go out there with regular warmup jersey and stick out like a thore thumb. 

 

If that is their believe then stick up for it rather than preventing other from expression or coward out of it. 

[RawkDrummer]

and I thought we're all Canucks

 

[psharpe07]

2 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

That's not what this is about now. It's banning someone from wearing something that they want to wear. If you believe you can't force someone to wear something they don't want to, do you also believe you shouldn't be able to force someone not to wear something that they do?

No, on that you are correct.  If they want to wear it, no problem with me.  Just stop demonizing the guys who don't.  There has to be grace given both ways.  

[psharpe07]

4 minutes ago, 24K said:

I argue they don't have to wear any special event jersey. Just go out there with regular warmup jersey and stick out like a thore thumb. 

 

If that is their believe then stick up for it rather than preventing other from expression or coward out of it. 

Ya, I see your point.  If someone willingly chooses to wear it by all means go ahead.  I don't agree with the suggestion that they are "cowarding" out of it if they choose not to, seeing as how when they do it they knew the social crap storm they are going to bring down on their heads.  That to me takes some stones.

[24K]

3 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Many people are passionate about this issue. Gary Bettman is not. He’s about making money and saw what happened to Bud Light. Based on popular public opinion he made a business decision and does not want to risk a similar loss in value of his product. Just another cold, hard business decision.

 

Has anyone that cares messaged the NHL or is bitching about it here going to be the end of it?

This is more of a PR decision than a $ one as this would tank the sales of specialty jerseys that is a major cash cow to a lot of teams. 

 

Yes they can still sell it but truth if the matter is, people want to wear thing players have wore on the ice. The mindset is different from seeing something in the store and seeing it on the players in terms of purchasing decisions. 

[24K]

3 minutes ago, psharpe07 said:

Ya, I see your point.  If someone willingly chooses to wear it by all means go ahead.  I don't agree with the suggestion that they are "cowarding" out of it if they choose not to, seeing as how when they do it they knew the social crap storm they are going to bring down on their heads.  That to me takes some stones.

If you are not willing to stand for your convictions than you are cowarding.

 

I say ciward cause last year those not wearing it coward out of warmup. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by 24K

[Snoop Hogg]

7 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

Are you that self centered? Paranoid?

Clearly one is pushing a life style and the other a life choice.

 

I also just want a game not a political statement. The game is to leave the world's issues behind for a few hours and find something totally useless and has not real effect on life overall.

 

Do you spend every hour of every day thinking about this issue? Your clothes are rainbow? Car/bike? Shoes? You have the ability to show that personally to everyone everyday IMO if you are not doing that you are a coward hiding behind some belief that you are entitled to make someone else parade your ideology, thoughts or life style/choice/differences. 

 

What makes these people so special? Is it because in antiquity they were ostracized and treated very badly, in antiquity. You live in a country that accepted these differences and has bent over backwards to create acceptance. 

 

Why is it everyone else that isn't following and supporting THIS issue is a bigot or insensitive? Is it really necessary to push these issues to the point of annoyance? 

 

I will get flamed now.

This post right here just proves why it’s necessary to have Pride Night. 
 

What makes that community so special? Really? REALLY???

 

It’s about showing hockey fans and players who are LGBTQ+ that they belong in the sport, whether as a spectator or an athlete. 
 

Do you have any idea for how long athletes in general could not be out and proud without being bullied, abused and tormented?

 

Look at what happened with Kyle Beach, who is heterosexual btw. He was taunted and bullied by his own teammates for being sexually abused. 
 

But hey, you’re annoyed at this “issue being shoved down your throat”, so you’re the victim.

 

Yeah, okay, buddy.

[24K]

37 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

Are you that self centered? Paranoid?

Clearly one is pushing a life style and the other a life choice.

 

I also just want a game not a political statement. The game is to leave the world's issues behind for a few hours and find something totally useless and has not real effect on life overall.

 

Do you spend every hour of every day thinking about this issue? Your clothes are rainbow? Car/bike? Shoes? You have the ability to show that personally to everyone everyday IMO if you are not doing that you are a coward hiding behind some belief that you are entitled to make someone else parade your ideology, thoughts or life style/choice/differences. 

 

What makes these people so special? Is it because in antiquity they were ostracized and treated very badly, in antiquity. You live in a country that accepted these differences and has bent over backwards to create acceptance. 

 

Why is it everyone else that isn't following and supporting THIS issue is a bigot or insensitive? Is it really necessary to push these issues to the point of annoyance? 

 

I will get flamed now.

What do you mean in antiquity. LGBT groups are still persecuted around the world. 

 

Even in Canada and more so in the US, discrimination against LGBT groups still occur with some states still making marriage between same sex couples illegal. 

 

So yeah this is not an issue from 'antiquity'. Heck this was way less of an issue in antiquity from how the ancient Roman and Greeks behaved.

Edited October 11, 2023 by 24K

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, DexM94 said:

if you think they would take any sort of fine (ie no paycheque) for not showing support, then you've part of the problem.
 

Lol. Ok.   Do I think they'd do it? Of course not.    All i'm saying is what they did was wrong, and they had a chance to do the right thing.   The hypocrisy is right there.   "Nothing should change our uniforms".   Yikes the TD sign is ugly as fuck.   

Edited October 11, 2023 by IBatch

[MikeyD]

12 hours ago, LucBourdon28 said:

Damn those Diwali jerseys must be worth a fortune now

 

Swift moves by the  NHL to abandon its corporate social responsibility strategy. Again just following the status quo is what the NHL is good at.

Even something important such as celebrating human equality and diversity the NHL will crumble over some bad press.

 

 

They were worth a fortune the moment they came out. Fucking things were way too expensive. Could have generated a lot of good revenue for necessary things but charging over 350 bucks is insane.

[DSVII]

53 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

 

 

What makes these people so special? Is it because in antiquity they were ostracized and treated very badly, in antiquity. You live in a country that accepted these differences and has bent over backwards to create acceptance. 

 

Why is it everyone else that isn't following and supporting THIS issue is a bigot or insensitive? Is it really necessary to push these issues to the point of annoyance? 

 

I will get flamed now.

 

Not antiquity, you can find plenty of examples even in the last century. And today.

 

If you're talking first nations, the residential schools still have survivors today, and were only decades ago.

 

Not to mention there are still folks working loud and hard to advocate for the marginalization and erasure of history today. The resurgence of the reactionary extremists makes the issue even more important IMO. And it's currently being masked under the guise of 'anti-wokeness' and keeping politics out of life while imposing their own politics/values on the majority (including us non LGBTQ+).

 

I think what we had before was fine, just let players don't wear the jersey (no one got punished by the league) if they don't believe in it, but this is still an important issue today.

 

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/roundup-of-anti-lgbtq-legislation-advancing-in-states-across-the-country

 

[MikeyD]

2 hours ago, Steamer4GM said:

The part that cracks me up most about this is that not one single player opposed to donning Pride colours has had the balls to simply come out and say it’s because they’re homophobic. 
 

Instead, they cower behind religion as if that’s a safe haven for hatred. 
 

Look, I admit it, I fucking hate lazy people and, aside from those suffering from formally diagnosed medical conditions, am very, very uncomfortable around stupid people. I believe they’re way of thinking and acting is not only toxic and dangerous but mildly contagious as well. 
 

But I’m forced to work alongside many of these people and am forbidden from expressing my true thoughts and feelings for them without being subjected to social and professional consequences. So I smile and nod and bite my tongue and refrain from violence and other acts of aggression other than some micro aggressions I can get away with.

So, to those players who either hate or simply claim to be uncomfortable with members of LGBTQ communities, I simply say, “I feel your pain man. Life is tough and we don’t always get to hold unpopular beliefs comfortably. Sometimes you just have to own who you are, speak your truth to power and accept the consequences. If that means you’re labelled a POS homophobe and suffer the slings and arrows of the media, your peers and a large segment of the general population in the land where you earn your millions playing a childhood game, so be it. Such is the cost of freedom of choice.”

 

Or if you’re just so ashamed of your chosen beliefs that you’re not willing to own them, then suck it up and wear what you’re told to wear and keep your hatred hidden for the greater good just like I do

This is such an extreme take. Just because somebody doesn't want to be forced to wear something that doesn't align with their beliefs doesn't make them afraid of gay people. You can disagree with somebody's position but still support their right to it.

 

Pushing the notion that just because you don't side with your beliefs makes you an enemy of them is ridiculous and only divides further. I have gay people in my family and they don't support forcing people to wear and celebrate specific things. Are they homophobes and afraid of themselves? 

 

Sometimes the best way to gain support is to offer support of their right to an opinion as well instead of trying to shame them into following what you believe. It's why Canada works so well as a country because it's a melting pot and not a form of forced assimilation. The more people see you as respectful and not an enemy, the more likely they're going to be okay with you.

 

Let's not pretend as if a vast majority of people aren't okay with gay people and support them. They're overwhelmingly supported because for decades they did a great job of slowly allowing people to become less ignorant about their lifestyles. People tend to live and let be in general. Kuzmenko isn't going around yelling at the gays even though he doesn't believe in the idea of it, so why target him shaming him as a homophobe when there's no issue there? Meet respect with respect and you'll find in an overwhelming majority of cases that everybody will get along. 

[The Duke]

I had no problem defending Kuzmenko’s decision but this is disappointing.  

 

Hope players make a statement.

[psharpe07]

1 hour ago, 24K said:

If you are not willing to stand for your convictions than you are cowarding.

 

I say ciward cause last year those not wearing it coward out of warmup. 

Oh I see.  I misunderstood you.  Was it even an option for the players to do the warmup in their regular jerseys?

[stawns]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian said:

Are you that self centered? Paranoid?

Clearly one is pushing a life style and the other a life choice.

 

I also just want a game not a political statement. The game is to leave the world's issues behind for a few hours and find something totally useless and has not real effect on life overall.

 

Do you spend every hour of every day thinking about this issue? Your clothes are rainbow? Car/bike? Shoes? You have the ability to show that personally to everyone everyday IMO if you are not doing that you are a coward hiding behind some belief that you are entitled to make someone else parade your ideology, thoughts or life style/choice/differences. 

 

What makes these people so special? Is it because in antiquity they were ostracized and treated very badly, in antiquity. You live in a country that accepted these differences and has bent over backwards to create acceptance. 

 

Why is it everyone else that isn't following and supporting THIS issue is a bigot or insensitive? Is it really necessary to push these issues to the point of annoyance? 

 

I will get flamed now.

It's only political for one side

[Strawbone]

3 minutes ago, psharpe07 said:

Oh I see.  I misunderstood you.  Was it even an option for the players to do the warmup in their regular jerseys?

 

I don't know if it was a team decision, or a personal one. I'm fine with making the jerseys and tape optional, but the players who choose not to wear them should honestly explain why they made that choice. As others have said though, hiding behind "that's just my religious belief" isn't good enough. Saying "I think homosexuality is a deviant life choice" would at least be honest, and something that could be discussed. There's plenty of evidence that it's often not a "choice" at all, but a fundamental part of what a person is. If we can agree on that, the topic I think becomes much less controversial.

[madrigal77]

Good on the league and the team. If anyone doesn't want to participate, that shouldn't have to and they don't deserve to be singled out and swarmed by the mob. This makes everything equal for everyone and includes everyone. I don't get the rabid foaming at the mouth for the rainbow like it's a religion or something. You MUST submit to the rainbow, or you're full of "hate". Maybe some players due to religious or personal reasons, are not comfortable participating. That's their right, and it doesn't mean they "hate" anyone.

[DSVII]

8 minutes ago, madrigal77 said:

Good on the league and the team. If anyone doesn't want to participate, that shouldn't have to and they don't deserve to be singled out and swarmed by the mob. This makes everything equal for everyone and includes everyone. I don't get the rabid foaming at the mouth for the rainbow like it's a religion or something. You MUST submit to the rainbow, or you're full of "hate". Maybe some players due to religious or personal reasons, are not comfortable participating. That's their right, and it doesn't mean they "hate" anyone.

 

Think about what you're saying though. This started because people were defending the rights of Reimer to not wear a jersey due to his beliefs (which was upheld and he wasn't punished for it.)

 

Now you're celebrating another group of players who are having their right to wear what represents their beliefs taken away.

 

Also, I disagree with labelling everyone who is against this being a hater, I question how is this shoved down your throat. I just think you're buying into the narrative that 'inclusion' = shoving down your throat. 

 

Do you even watch the warm ups? 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by DSVII

[madrigal77]

4 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

Think about what you're saying though. This started because people were defending the rights of Reimer to not wear a jersey due to his beliefs (which was upheld and he wasn't punished for it.)

 

Now you're celebrating another group of players who are having their right to wear what represents their beliefs taken away.

 

Also, I disagree with labelling everyone who is against this being a hater, I question how is this shoved down your throat. I just think you're buying into the narrative that 'inclusion' = shoving down your throat. 

 

Do you even watch the warm ups? 

 

It's professional ice hockey. They don't have the right to wear what represents their beliefs. That's not how it works. They can only wear what's sanctioned by the team and NHL. The NHL has decided not to sanction special warm up jerseys in order to be inclusive of all players and not have players singled out and swarmed for their beliefs.

 

When did I say anything about "shoving down my throat"?

[24K]

2 minutes ago, madrigal77 said:

It's professional ice hockey. They don't have the right to wear what represents their beliefs. That's not how it works. They can only wear what's sanctioned by the team and NHL. The NHL has decided not to sanction special warm up jerseys in order to be inclusive of all players and not have players singled out and swarmed for their beliefs.

 

When did I say anything about "shoving down my throat"?

It is called censorship. 

 

NHL have the right to restrict things as they are aprivate entity but censorship is never the answer unless it is something that is going to cause imminent danger or outright outrageous disinformation.

[The Social Hermit]

This is a very regrettable stand by the NHL and I understand why the Canucks as an organization are bound by it though. I only hope more players like Scott Laughton, come out and say they will still use the tape anyway. The more players that speak up, the more power they have. The NHLPA should also take a stand. If hockey really is for everybody, this all has to change.

[madrigal77]

5 minutes ago, 24K said:

It is called censorship. 

 

NHL have the right to restrict things as they are aprivate entity but censorship is never the answer unless it is something that is going to cause imminent danger or outright outrageous disinformation.

It's literally not censorship. Censorship would be restricting players from talking about it, which they are not. They are just saying no special event warm up jerseys. 

[24K]

Just now, madrigal77 said:

It's literally not censorship. Censorship would be restricting players from talking about it, which they are not. They are just saying no special event warm up jerseys. 

Censorship does not only involve speech. It can be prevention of any kind of expression. 

 

Jerseys I can begrudgingly understand as it is a team thing but banning tape is definitely a censorship of personal expression. 

[DSVII]

10 minutes ago, madrigal77 said:

It's professional ice hockey. They don't have the right to wear what represents their beliefs. That's not how it works. They can only wear what's sanctioned by the team and NHL. The NHL has decided not to sanction special warm up jerseys in order to be inclusive of all players and not have players singled out and swarmed for their beliefs.

 

 

 

Swarmed by whom? Because the worst Reimer really experienced was just some trolling by online folks and media. Is that really worth losing Hockey Fights Cancer over? I believe in individual choices, I also believe if you truly have integrity, you are willing to stand by those beliefs regardless of what other says. From my understanding, he didn't even specifically advocate for this outcome. 

 

Quote

When did I say anything about "shoving down my throat"?

 

You implied that enough with the whole Rainbow worship line, it runs right parallel with the keep politics out of sport and rainbows everywhere crowd that ironically politicize everything to get an outcome they want. I apologize if i misjudged you on this, but it's out there.

 

Anyways, off to lunch!