[Article] Canucks will ‘follow the league rules’ on Pride Tape and specialty jerseys

[aGENT]

13 hours ago, madrigal77 said:

Yes. Desperate. Why are you so desperate? I’m pretty sure you’re frothing at the mouth while posting. Why do you care about “equality” so much that you’re going berserk about it on a hockey forum? Like my sister and uncle are gay but I’m not losing my shit over some hockey player not wanting to wear a rainbow jersey. 

 

Nope. Sitting on the couch with my dog, looking out our big picture window at our valley/mountain view, enjoying the delicious lattes I made for my wife and I, after making love to her this morning. I assure you, I'm quite calm and relaxed lol.

 

I'm certainly not losing my shit. Simply holding people accountable for their actions.

 

4 hours ago, Plaguez said:

What was bigoted about what he said? Basically you're resorting to the good ole call them a racist or a bigot when you've lost an argument shtick.  It's embarrassing.

 

Since this site started I'm definitely seeing way more of this crap.  

 

 

Asserting that gay men inherently lack the qualities to play hockey is the definition of bigotry FYI.

 

3 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

When I was growing up, sports was about sports.  
It was about teamwork and trying your best.  

 

I bet for you it was. For a lot of people it was, and still is, an uphill battle to feel welcome and accepted. Has been for decades. 

 

3 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

It had ZERO to do with people sexuality, race or religion, and it should stay that way. 

Yes, all should be allowed to play, obviously, but you are incorrect saying it’s always been this bs white knight for every cause.  

 

I think you mean correct. Or did you just miss the entire black athletes being able to play sports that's been happening for the last 80 or so years? Black and white people allowed to sit together at sporting events? Use the same water fountains, bathrooms etc at games? Alli and his conscientious objection to military service? None of that happened? I'm "incorrect" am I?

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by aGENT

[DSVII]

7 hours ago, Swizzey said:

Do you watch professional female hockey? If you don’t, your argument is nullified and you are a hypocrite for standing on it. 

 

Yep! I went to the US and Canada women's 2018 Olympic game in Pyeongchang actually, and have been keeping track of the international womens teams since Sochi in 2014. Team Japan has been another soft spot for me since their womens team debut there. The US and Canada women's team show a lot more spark and rivalry than some NHL teams if you ask me.

 

But my entire line of reasoning isn't nullified by me proving my attendance. You just have no argument. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by DSVII

[D.B Cooper]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

 

I bet for you it was. For a lot of people it was, and still is, an uphill battle to feel welcome and accepted. Has been for decades. 

I’m sure for some it has, and that’s not right.  
I’ve played since the late 80s and have always had POC on our teams.  
We have a couple of gay folks on our shinny team for the last 3 years.  
It’s come a long way, but I’m not going to thank NHL or hockey Canada for that. 
No matter how many jerseys they sell

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

 

I think you mean correct. Or did you just miss the entire black athletes being able to play sports that's been happening for the last 80 or so years? Black and white people allowed to sit together at sporting events? Use the same water fountains, bathrooms etc at games? Alli and his conscientious objection to military service? None of that happened? I'm "incorrect" am I?

 

What did the NHL, MLB,etc… do to help that?  They were supporters of money, not helping any change. 
Same as now, which is why I don’t look to those chumps as my moral compass. 
 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

The answer you are looking for is "stigma". People in our culture are afraid of someone labelling them if they enter a certain field and are thus discouraged to do so. It has nothing to do with innate qualities. 

 

 

I'm sure there's a whole host of reasons. Even some fraction of it likely due to men/women, very generally speaking, having slightly different innate qualities that these guys are assuming as the entire reason.

 

Some of it likely also has to do with the stigma you mention and that as a society we tend to encourage certain behaviors/abilities/tasks to each sex.

 

And some of it likely has to do with inherently hostile/unwelcoming environments. I can't imagine it's easy to have a period on a job site with just porta potty. Or work with the small percentage of a-holes that are outwardly hostile. Or the cat calls, or subordinates man-splaining their job to them. Doesn't exactly make for a welcoming environment that encourage women to enter those fields. Maybe some of those things are reasons why only X % of brick layers are women.... Hmmm

Edited October 14, 2023 by aGENT

[stawns]

32 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

Do you know when they started coming out? Try the late 60's and they were not all ostracised, it was just not publicised.

Like most sports reporters of the era when there was no internet there are many back stories that were never reported on. How many on the cup winning Oilers? 

What were Kassian's problems? Kept under wraps.

 

Sports reporters often kept and sometimes still do some stories quiet. Sometimes stories get out but are not or were not perpetuated on. Gilmore, MacTavish, Brown and MacLean, Messier/Bure, Anderson, Messier, Tocchet, recently the Junior teams stuff, Nichuskin, lots of "in the room", usually if there is a really big issue some forms of "hints" are published but nothing concrete, like the Horvak, Miller dichotomy or the young vs old gap, even Miller tried to disguise his opinion when he said "we have to learn how to play defence", that year they were one of the better defensive teams but Hughes had a horrible +/-.

 

The old Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions, Rock Hudson. Did they all get hung out to dry?

 

Old news just being renewed for some reason.

 

Let's watch hockey, a game. The way it is going minor hockey will have to change so it is not a game but a statement.

Jeez that sound like all those folks on the rainbow side

Is that what you think?  Tell that to the kid who knew he was fay on my hockey team and who quit, rather than come out for fear of what members of our team would have done to him.........with good cause

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'm sure there's a whole host of reasons. Even some fraction of it likely due to men/women, very generally speaking, having slightly different innate qualities that these guys are assuming as the entire reason.

 

this is usually just such a small part of things. Its also by design. Oil rigs e.g. are designed the way they are because some large men are willing to kill/maim themselves for a job. It doesn't have to be designed that way.

 

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Some of it likely also has to do with the stigma you mention and that as a society we tend to encourage certain behaviors/abilities/tasks to each sex.

 

And some of it likely has to do with inherently hostile/unwelcoming environments. I can't imagine it's easy to have a period on a job site with just porta potty. Or the work with the small percentage of a-holes that are outwardly hostile. Or the cat calls, or subordinates man-splaining their job to them. Doesn't exactly make for a welcoming environment that encourage women to enter those fields. Maybe some of those things are reasons why only X % of brick layers are women.... Hmmm

 

^ all of this is bang on. 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

I’m sure for some it has, and that’s not right.  
I’ve played since the late 80s and have always had POC on our teams.  
We have a couple of gay folks on our shinny team for the last 3 years.  

 

You're anecdotal acceptance is great and all, but it's a drop in the bucket to the rest of the world and the real people still struggling with this crap daily.

 

2 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

It’s come a long way, but I’m not going to thank NHL or hockey Canada for that. 
No matter how many jerseys they sell

What did the NHL, MLB,etc… do to help that?  They were supporters of money, not helping any change. 
Same as now, which is why I don’t look to those chumps as my moral compass. 
 

 

Who said you had to thank the NHL or Hockey Canada? (We shouldn't be thanking hockey Canada for much right now...eesh).

 

But they're not the ones driving this. It's the vast majority of fans like me, and the other people in this thread, who are. We're demanding that hockey (and society in general) do better for EVERYONE. Sure, the NHL (had anyway) figured out how to make a buck on that sentiment... That's what business do. Fans are using them, and their reach as giant corporations, to expand that message. In return, we give them money. The world keeps spinning.

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

I’m sure for some it has, and that’s not right.  
I’ve played since the late 80s and have always had POC on our teams.  
We have a couple of gay folks on our shinny team for the last 3 years.  
It’s come a long way, but I’m not going to thank NHL or hockey Canada for that. 
No matter how many jerseys they sell

What did the NHL, MLB,etc… do to help that?  They were supporters of money, not helping any change. 
Same as now, which is why I don’t look to those chumps as my moral compass. 
 

I guarantee you that young queer athletes see it differently.  Seeing professional athletes, straight or queer, publically supporting them is a huge boost for them 

[TheGuardian]

Finishing this stupid conversation

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by TheGuardian

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

How are you fixing the rest of the worlds problems? Does the Ayatollah listen to you? Hamas? Taliban? Isis? They don't even listen to their own people and apart from open war or supporting a dictator there isn't much chance to change.

 

 

I think your taking this a bit farther than is logical and attempting to fashion some sort of red herring. Tolerance and acceptance in sport has nothing to with violence in the middle East. Not sure how you went from A to ¥ there....

Edited October 14, 2023 by aGENT

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

this is usually just such a small part of things. Its also by design. Oil rigs e.g. are designed the way they are because some large men are willing to kill/maim themselves for a job. It doesn't have to be designed that way.

 

 

^ all of this is bang on. 

Things like this are a positive step in the right direction anyway:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6992855

 

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Things like this are a positive step in the right direction anyway:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6992855

 

 

 

Meh, real men go like hillbillies. Who needs to flush? 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Meh, real men go like hillbillies. Who needs to flush? 

The women we hope to attract to trades so that we have enough people actually building things? 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

The women we hope to attract to trades so that we have enough people actually building things? 

 

Keep your woke flushing to yourself 

[Swizzey]

4 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

The answer you are looking for is "stigma". People in our culture are afraid of someone labelling them if they enter a certain field and are thus discouraged to do so. It has nothing to do with innate qualities. 

 

 

So women are afraid to go into bricklaying (99% male field) because they are afraid about getting discouraged in that field. It has nothing to do with simply not wanting to lay bricks for 10 hours a day?

 

Makes sense.  

[Bob Long]

27 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

So women are afraid to go into bricklaying (99% male field) because they are afraid about getting discouraged in that field. It has nothing to do with simply not wanting to lay bricks for 10 hours a day?

 

Makes sense.  

 

Do you think women are afraid of hard work? 

[MeanSeanBean]

26 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

So women are afraid to go into bricklaying (99% male field) because they are afraid about getting discouraged in that field. It has nothing to do with simply not wanting to lay bricks for 10 hours a day?

 

Makes sense.  

You do realize that when you eliminate and rearrange half a sentence you come up with a different statement...Right? Or are you just learning this now? 

 

the statement you just said was not the same statement Bob did.

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Do you think women are afraid of hard work? 

Of course they are! That's why 92% of Canadian nurses are woman. Everyone knows being a nurse is a super cushy job...

[Swizzey]

27 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Do you think women are afraid of hard work? 

Not at all. I think women, and men, choose professions that best suit their characteristics and preferences. I just don’t think those are brick laying. The same reason I think males are underrepresented as nurses. The same reason gays are underrepresented in NHL hockey.

 

My point in this thread has consistently been that perhaps the underrepresentation of gay hockey players has more to do with characteristics and preferences than it has to do with inequality. 

[MeanSeanBean]

12 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

 

My point in this thread has consistently been that perhaps the underrepresentation of gay hockey players has more to do with characteristics and preferences than it has to do with inequality. 

I'll give you one thing, it's been a consistently terrible point.

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

Not at all. I think women, and men, choose professions that best suit their characteristics and preferences.

 

is there a master list of these somewhere you are working from? what are you referencing?

 

9 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

 

I just don’t think those are brick laying.

 

or maybe thats just not a particularly attractive trade, to most people. 

 

9 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

The same reason I think males are underrepresented as nurses.

 

and what specific reason is that? 

 

9 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

 

The same reason gays are underrepresented in NHL hockey.

 

utter nonsense. We've seen many amazing gay athletes who come out after their careers are over in many sports, just as demanding as hockey. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

My point in this thread has consistently been that perhaps the underrepresentation of gay hockey players has more to do with characteristics and preferences than it has to do with inequality. 

 

you haven't come close to providing a valid rationale for this. Not sure if this is from a Jordan Peterson video but this question is just silly.

 

You could use the same logic for why there aren't many black players in the NHL, and that would be nonsense too. 

 

 

[Swizzey]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

is there a master list of these somewhere you are working from? what are you referencing?

or maybe thats just not a particularly attractive trade, to most people. 
 

- even if it’s not an attractive trade, that doesn’t give reason to why it’s a 99% male industry. You still haven’t given a logical reason to explain that…

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

22 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

Not at all. I think women, and men, choose professions that best suit their characteristics and preferences.

 

is there a master list of these somewhere you are working from? what are you referencing?

- Simply that men and women tend to have different characteristics and preferences.

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

22 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

 

I just don’t think those are brick laying.

 

or maybe thats just not a particularly attractive trade, to most people. 
 

- Even if it’s not an attractive trade, that doesn’t give reason to why it’s a 99% male industry. You still haven’t given a logical reason to explain that…

 

22 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

The same reason I think males are underrepresented as nurses.

 

and what specific reason is that?

- Generally, females tend to have higher caretaking ability 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

 

The same reason gays are underrepresented in NHL hockey.

 

utter nonsense. We've seen many amazing gay athletes who come out after their careers are over in many sports, just as demanding as hockey. 

- Of the millions of professional athletes in high contact sports, can you name 25?

 

22 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

My point in this thread has consistently been that perhaps the underrepresentation of gay hockey players has more to do with characteristics and preferences than it has to do with inequality. 

 

you haven't come close to providing a valid rationale for this. Not sure if this is from a Jordan Peterson video but this question is just silly.

 

You could use the same logic for why there aren't many black players in the NHL, and that would be nonsense too. 
 

- African American’s have a deep routed culture in football and basketball. On top of the historic culture, they also tend to have characteristics of being extremely fast runners and can jump high. Hence, it makes sense that they gravitate to sports where that is needed to be successful. 

 

 

and what specific reason is that? 

 

 

utter nonsense. We've seen many amazing gay athletes who come out after their careers are over in many sports, just as demanding as hockey. 

 

 

 

you haven't come close to providing a valid rationale for this. Not sure if this is from a Jordan Peterson video but this question is just silly.

 

You could use the same logic for why there aren't many black players in the NHL, and that would be nonsense too. 

 

 

Sorry for how I organized that - I definitely am less savvy on how to navigate quoting on here. 
 

There must be some underlying inequality in why that is… or maybe you have just navigated forums like this longer than me

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Swizzey said:

Sorry for how I organized that - I definitely am less savvy on how to navigate quoting on here. 
 

There must be some underlying inequality in why that is… or maybe you have just navigated forums like this longer than me

 

yes, there is and you're doing all you can to avoid it. Its called stigma and harassment for many women in the trades. Many men don't want them there. 

 

What do you mean 'females have higher caretaking ability'? so you've never gone to a male doctor?

 

it took a 3 second google search to find a list of athletes for you: https://playersbio.com/lgbtq-athletes/

 

As for your suggestion for a lack of black players in the NHL, you might want to go back and edit that out of existence. 

 

 

 

You have decided that there's some list of characteristics out there that defines people, apparently for all time. Not sure where you are getting this from, can you explain that a bit?

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, Swizzey said:

Sorry for how I organized that - I definitely am less savvy on how to navigate quoting on here. 
 

There must be some underlying inequality in why that is… or maybe you have just navigated forums like this longer than me

 

Another point, even if there are only a small number of gay athletes, does that somehow make it OK in your mind to discriminate? 

[King Heffy]

Novel concept: people should be free to do whatever they want for a living without ridicule, regardless of gender.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Novel concept: people should be free to do whatever they want for a living without ridicule, regardless of gender.

 

No apparently there's a list somewhere that prevents it.