[PGT] Canucks vs Oilers - Oct 11

[Huggy Bear]

18 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

I'll try:  (otherwise known as "I'll shove my foot in my face now")

First off, you need an AHL team (check).

 

Then you need, per team:

G: 3 

F: 8

F: 12

So, 6 goalies, 16 defensemen, and aWhoppingly Yuge 24 artillery systems forwards.

 

That's nice and handy in Abby; I haven't considered the SHL etc.

 

Can’t tell if you’re joking or interpreted that question way too literally…

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

When they can replace what they have organically. 
 

Makes sense as a starting point. So is that having NHL ready prospects at each key position, or just to backfill expiring contracts?
 

Which successful team that had a deep run has the depth you’re talking about?

Edited October 13, 2023 by Huggy Bear

[Bane]

how's it going boys, still riding the dopamine from the 8-1 win. 

[LaBamba]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Do you think this is more of the Aquilinis not having the appetite for a rebuild? Or is it more of a Canadian team issue? I do see depth growing in the prospect pool. It's not huge, but better than it's been. As well, Alvin has made some choices/trades that have brought in impact players like Hronek. 

We have control of Hronek for this season. We gave up a middle first round draft pick. A potential impact player we’d control for 10 years for A player who if exceeds expectations is fix’n to get paid. If he does not meet or exceed expectations he has no value. 

There is a very real possibility that we can’t fit him under our long term cap and he walks away cause we couldn’t flip him for assets because we were in the wildcard spot. 

At some point we need to stop this nonsense. 

[LillStrimma]

12 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Fundamentally, what has changed?  We replaced Jim Benning with Swedish Jim Benning. 

The fans who hasn’t noticed the fdifference in how the GM approach their role as a GM should look a lot more on what Benning actually did.

[LaBamba]

7 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

Can’t tell if you’re joking or interpreted that question way too literally…

 

 

 

Makes sense as a starting point. So is that having NHL ready prospects at each key position, or just to backfill expiring contracts?
 

Which successful team that had a deep run has the depth you’re talking about?

By the time you’re winning a Stanley cup you’ve cashed in your assets to surround your core. Those are 2 different stages. The organizational depth you prepared for your current window in on your team. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

We have control of Hronek for this season. We gave up a middle first round draft pick. A potential impact player we’d control for 10 years for A player who if exceeds expectations is fix’n to get paid. If he does not meet or exceed expectations he has no value. 

The pick, while very valuable, is the cost of trading for a top 4 right handed defenseman. Hronek (while only one game) looks to be a good fit with Hughes, which is good for the team overall. I do think that Alvin will make signing Pettersson and Hronek a priority. If he doesn't meet expectations, he'll still have value.

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

There is a very real possibility that we can’t fit him under our long term cap and he walks away cause we couldn’t flip him for assets because we were in the wildcard spot. 

I can't see Alvin letting him walk if he works out here. It'll cost, but might not be a bankbreaker. I do think that this management won't let folks walk for nothing like Dim Jim did. 

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

At some point we need to stop this nonsense. 

Where do you think the nonsense emanates from?

[Huggy Bear]

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

By the time you’re winning a Stanley cup you’ve cashed in your assets to surround your core. Those are 2 different stages. The organizational depth you prepared for your current window in on your team. 

Of course, good point.

 

So which team is poised for success this year based on their depth, and despite any injuries?
 

 

[LaBamba]

12 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think that Alvin has been more methodical in building a team. Benning never seemed to have a solid idea as to the type of team he wanted to build and paid way too much for players whose impact didn't match their salary. 

Let’s say Alvin is better at the pro scouting level. That’s fine, however. The execution is the same. Now matters more than later. 

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, LaBamba said:

Let’s say Alvin is better at the pro scouting level. That’s fine, however. The execution is the same. Now matters more than later. 

I think there's a difference in execution, wherein Alvin and co have an actual idea of the team they want to build and stick to it, while Benning was always changing it. As well, Alvin still had to deal with the ruins of Benning's tenure.

[Huggy Bear]

9 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

There is a very real possibility that we can’t fit him under our long term cap and he walks away cause we couldn’t flip him for assets because we were in the wildcard spot. 

No, there isn’t even a remote possibility we can’t fit him under our long term cap. 
 

You can use the CapFriendly team builder for next year. Give both Petey and Hronek $11 & $6M extensions, and we still have $5-6M in room.

5 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Let’s say Alvin is better at the pro scouting level. That’s fine, however. The execution is the same. Now matters more than later. 

Not really. UFA signings have been shorter term as well, and we have made our 1st round picks the last two years.

 

PA has alluded to a 3 year plan, and they have made moves that align with that strategy. Willander and Lekkerimaki should be joining the team on ELCs at that time.

[Goal_thecup]

20 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

Can’t tell if you’re joking or interpreted that question way too literally

Yeah, just thought I'd give my opinion.

Gillis went through so many on his run.

(How many? Enter your answer here:_________)

[WSAcanuck]

13 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

Of course, good point.

 

So which team is poised for success this year based on their depth, and despite any injuries?
 

 

Not the Canucks despite having 10 years to do so.

 

That was the whole point lol

[LaBamba]

4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The pick, while very valuable, is the cost of trading for a top 4 right handed defenseman. Hronek (while only one game) looks to be a good fit with Hughes, which is good for the team overall. I do think that Alvin will make signing Pettersson and Hronek a priority. If he doesn't meet expectations, he'll still have value.

I can't see Alvin letting him walk if he works out here. It'll cost, but might not be a bankbreaker. I do think that this management won't let folks walk for nothing like Dim Jim did. 

Where do you think the nonsense emanates from?

1 season isn’t enough. This was an overpayment. 
the problem lies with the comment I made earlier. We always prioritize now over later. This management culture is why we didn’t develop A Hronek in the AHL.
 

Let’s break down how Alvis made the exact same mistake. 

 

Hronek was drafted 53rd in 2016. Tage Thomson, Charlie Mac were a few later round selections in that draft year as well. If we would’ve had a couple 1st, 2nd’s, 3rds like teams drafting 5th tend to have. We could’ve possibly hit on one of those guys. Instead. We are cashed those same tickets in a deep draft in on a player we control for a season. Great move for the season but maybe not a great move for organizational depth. 
 

[Gurn]

12 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

ou can use the CapFriendly team builder for next year. Give both Petey and Hronek $11 & $6M extensions, and we still have $5-6M in room.

$30.9 in projected space

minus 

$12 for E.P.

 $7 for Hronek

means

$11.9 mill left to sign the other 7 or 8 players, as Petey and Hronek would make 15 players signed.

[LaBamba]

11 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

No, there isn’t even a remote possibility we can’t fit him under our long term cap. 
 

You can use the CapFriendly team builder for next year. Give both Petey and Hronek $11 & $6M extensions, and we still have $5-6M in room.

Not really. UFA signings have been shorter term as well, and we have made our 1st round picks the last two years.

 

PA has alluded to a 3 year plan, and they have made moves that align with that strategy. Willander and Lekkerimaki should be joining the team on ELCs at that time.

So that’s 5-6M for improvement? Hmm. That doesn’t bother anyone? Lol 5-6m in improvement with nobody on the farm. Hahah. 

[John.Tallhouse]

Happy Friday The 13th to all my goons and goblins 

[Jess]

31 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

As well, Alvin still had to deal with the ruins of Benning's tenure.

 

While I'd tend to agree that Allvin is doing work to fix up Benning's goof ups, many also said the same thing of Benning fixing the drafting from the Gillis era. If every GM just spends all their time fixing the mistakes of their predecessor, are we really getting anywhere?

 

Regardless, this past off-season has given me a fair bit of hope, as I felt like we did exactly what we needed to. That said, I'll wait until I see actual results before totally singing their praises. An 8-1 win is a great start, but we have 81 more games to go.

 

18 minutes ago, Gurn said:

$30.9 in projected space

minus 

$12 for E.P.

 $7 for Hronek

means

$11.9 mill left to sign the other 7 or 8 players, as Petey and Hronek would make 15 players signed.

 

Indeed. Next year gets really tight due to some contracts we might want to renew as well as OEL's buyout hitting harder. $12 for Petey and $7 for Hronek might seem high, but are not unrealistic numbers. Add in the expirations of Blueger and Cole, who we may or may not want to re-sign and things could get tight. I do get the feeling that JR and Allvin went pretty all-in this year to convince Petey to stay. I only hope the short-term investment doesn't hurt us in the long run and that it's worth it.

[Gawdzukes]

4 hours ago, Rekker said:

Drance is to be ignored at all times. I turn away absolutely every time I see or hear him and I ill not read his garb. Unbelievable this dunce has any airplay or any audience. 

 

It just goes to show the pathetic state of the world when human trash like this actually gets followers. It's just sad really but with social media people actually identify with people like that. Everyone is being trained to be a lippy smart goof who knows everything because they read it on the internet and lots of folks lap it up. Lame ... very very lame.

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

1 season isn’t enough. This was an overpayment. 

1 season isn't enough for what the price to acquire him was? I agree. I think (and could be wrong) that they see him as a long term solution.

8 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

the problem lies with the comment I made earlier. We always prioritize now over later. This management culture is why we didn’t develop A Hronek in the AHL.

I do think that is an ownership culture rather than a management one. I would prefer seeing a steady crop of prospects developing in the lower leagues.

8 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Let’s break down how Alvis made the exact same mistake. 

 

Hronek was drafted 53rd in 2016. Tage Thomson, Charlie Mac were a few later round selections in that draft year as well.

Tage Thompson is a center. If you're referring to Charlie McAvoy, he was drafted 14th overall. 

8 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

If we would’ve had a couple 1st, 2nd’s, 3rds like teams drafting 5th tend to have. We could’ve possibly hit on one of those guys. Instead. We are cashed those same tickets in a deep draft in on a player we control for a season. Great move for the season but maybe not a great move for organizational depth. 

I'm not a fan of the use of picks in trades that seems to be Vancouver's MO. One could argue that outside of the 2nd round, the chances of hitting on an NHL player lessens greatly. Although, that's where Chara was found. 

 

I do agree that a far greater focus needs to be given to the prospect pool. That's a foundational part of any successful organization. 

[Huggy Bear]

12 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

Yeah, just thought I'd give my opinion.

Gillis went through so many on his run.

(How many? Enter your answer here:_________)

I was just curious if @LaBamba could quantify how far off we are from having the depth needed for success and a long run. 

 

9 minutes ago, WSAcanuck said:

Not the Canucks despite having 10 years to do so.

 

That was the whole point lol

You’re missing the point of the question. See above.

 

5 minutes ago, Gurn said:

$30.9 in projected space

minus 

$12 for E.P.

 $7 for Hronek

means

$11.9 mill left to sign the other 7 or 8 players, as Petey and Hronek would make 15 players signed.

 

 

4 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

So that’s 5-6M for improvement? Hmm. That doesn’t bother anyone? Lol 5-6m in improvement with nobody on the farm. Hahah. 

$5-6M for an upgrade, losing Blueger, Myers and Cole, with Räty potentially ready, Höglander at $1.1M, and Podz likely resigned at $1-2M.   
 

That’s actually not that bad.  

[WSAcanuck]

7 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

I was just curious if @LaBamba could quantify how far off we are from having the depth needed for success and a long run. 

 

You’re missing the point of the question. See above.

 

 

 

$5-6M for an upgrade, losing Blueger, Myers and Cole, with Räty potentially ready, Höglander at $1.1M, and Podz likely resigned at $1-2M.   
 

That’s actually not that bad.  

No one can quantify how much is needed. The answer is enough to be able to make every move you need to make and/or fill every position necessary to fill.

 

Asset management is the key. That means not wasting assets but accumulating them (players, picks, prospects) until you have enough to make the necessary moves to be competitive. 

[Mordekai]

25 minutes ago, Gurn said:

$30.9 in projected space

minus 

$12 for E.P.

 $7 for Hronek

means

$11.9 mill left to sign the other 7 or 8 players, as Petey and Hronek would make 15 players signed.

What is the salary cap you used? It is projected to be at 87mil

if that is so I have petey @11.5 and hronek @7 leaves us space at $13.5 to sign entire 4th line plus rhd2 and rhd3 plus backup goalie

6 players total 

 

edit: and you are right 7 players if we upgrade from Hirose or brisebois for LHD2/3

Edited October 13, 2023 by Mordekai

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

23 minutes ago, John.Tallhouse said:

Happy Friday The 13th to all my goons and goblins 

 

[Huggy Bear]

4 minutes ago, WSAcanuck said:

No one can quantify how much is needed. The answer is enough to be able to make every move you need to make and/or fill every position necessary to fill.

Then how will we know when to stop complaining about depth?

[LaBamba]

6 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

I was just curious if @LaBamba could quantify how far off we are from having the depth needed for success and a long run. 

 

You’re missing the point of the question. See above.

 

 

 

$5-6M for an upgrade, losing Blueger, Myers and Cole, with Räty potentially ready, Höglander at $1.1M, and Podz likely resigned at $1-2M.   
 

That’s actually not that bad.  

How long does it take to draft and develop a player? Ideally we should be closer to the cap floor than the ceiling with an abundance of picks and prospects so Hughes and EP are surrounded with ECL’s and bridge contracts when they really hit their prime. We would also have cap and futures to exploit teams that can’t fit emerging RFA’s under their cap. As good as Hughes and EP are, they’re likely going to be even better when they are 26-28. We should be looking 3-5 down the road. Like I said, we wasted a decade already, we need to sign EP. It’s all in on an empty tank.