[PGT] Canucks vs Oilers - Oct 11

[SilentSam]

This is a good one …

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

I mean can you imagine....

 

Hughes, Pesce

Cole, Hronek

Soucy, Bear

 

Hirose, McWard

D-Petey, Woo

Brisebois, Johansson 

 

That's a SOLID organizational D group.

Add and underscore D man Petersson and Tom Willander on your Card Agent .

The

Future looks bright.

 

Just saw some Willander Hilights from tonight ,  playing with Celebrini ,  some chemistry there on D.

 

 

[PeteyBOI]

4 hours ago, GasThomas said:

11 forward.  Garland played less than 10 minutes and demko in half potential 

[aGENT]

14 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Add and underscore D man Petersson and Tom Willander on your Card Agent .

The

Future looks bright.

 

Just saw some Willander Hilights from tonight ,  playing with Celebrini ,  some chemistry there on D.

 

 

I had D Petey in there. Assuming Willander is still a year or so out.

[BlockerHigh]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:29 AM, -dlc- said:

"But" "Though" "Most posters"

 

Most posters are here because we believe in the team, get excited for great wins and celebrate them accordingly. And it's perfectly ok to do so....it's sort of the point. 

 

Your take on things is so negative and I'm not sure you can predict the future even by being stuck in the past.

 

There are new players on board. New coach who seems to know what this team required to shake the wasp nest and poke the bear. 

 

It's ok to be reserved and cautious but it's also ok to have hope and be happy and celebrate the good times.

 

I'm sick of the "Edmonton played bad" bs. That's on them, not us. This team played great so "most posters" are focusing there. I don't give a bear's behind what Edmonton did or didn't do...if they're touted to be contenders we just cleaned their clocks. Counts.

And often the team playing great doesn’t get the credit it deserves in forcing a team to play bad, by playing it’s system to perfection. 
 

I missed the game but I saw the final preseason game against Calgary. And I saw a very different team (from the last few years), a disciplined, defensively calm team that controlled the game. 
 

Yes it’s one game in, but perhaps our friend complaining has missed this. 
 

It the Canucks play the game the way they played Calgary’s starters at the end of the Exhibition games, they will be a lot better than many are giving them credit for… said that a few days ago. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by BlockerHigh

[Viper007]

12 hours ago, LaBamba said:

How long does it take to draft and develop a player? Ideally we should be closer to the cap floor than the ceiling with an abundance of picks and prospects so Hughes and EP are surrounded with ECL’s and bridge contracts when they really hit their prime. We would also have cap and futures to exploit teams that can’t fit emerging RFA’s under their cap. As good as Hughes and EP are, they’re likely going to be even better when they are 26-28. We should be looking 3-5 down the road. Like I said, we wasted a decade already, we need to sign EP. It’s all in on an empty tank. 

All good that you want to draft and develop, but Petey isn’t sticking around for that.  He wants to see progress, if we go the drafting/developing route that’ll be 3-4 years.  Petey will definitely be gone and then you get your wish, most likely we will need to rebuild, and after a few years, Hughes will probably want out too, now we are in the same cycle and losing another 6 years trying to find elite players in 2 important positions.  I would rather try to keep Petey and build around him, so I can see why Allvin is doing it this way.

 

[TheGuardian]

23 hours ago, Bob Long said:

how many players does a team have to draft vs trade and free agent signings. Whats the necessary mix to build a contending team? 

It is more than JUST drafted players now, cap planning also is a huge component.

 

But as an example, a drafted player is very cap friendly for up to 6 years.

Where would the Canucks get another Hughes or Pettersson or Demko if not through the draft.

 

Using draft picks, once there is an established core and the team is in the top 10 in the league, give trade value beyond what is likely to be drafted in those spots BUT they still have depth value and a chance for a late bloomer. For years Detroit traded away their 1rst's to win cups and consecutive playoff appearances, ditto with Pittsburgh who are now feeling the effects of being a winning team, no depth from late draft spots.

 

Essentially the core, 5 skaters and a goalie, should be drafted and close to the same age, within 4 years of each other then the team can be filled out by trading those #45 to 70 picks for 3rd 4th liners and 4, 5, 6 dmen.

 

As an example, IF Canucks take Tkachuk, Sergachev or Nylander instead of Juloevi, take any of the next 6 picks in 2014 instead of Virtanen and keep McCann, IF they keep the 1rst traded away for ORL/Garland and take Guenther, combined with Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Podkolzin and Miller this team has a much diffferent cap structure and most of the these players are between 21 and 26 yrs old and some just coming to the point of losing cap control, some will still be RFA's with huge trade asset potential.

 

The cap situation would be much altered in that most of the key players are under 26 years old.

 

Instead the Canucks have TWO core players under 26 now and some that are in the top six they have not been able to trade for 2 years at least partially due to the lack of cap planning. There are no draft picks or prospects to take away any players jobs in the top six or top 4 on defence.

 

The sob story of the league is the cap makes trading so hard, so where else to get 8 years worth of players unless 3 or 4 years are used to draft top star quality players.

 

There is a rule in the NHL that is never used, the offer sheet.

 

This is a rule that really could put the hammer to poorly run teams like the Canucks. The Canucks are not good enough to strip the team down to keep Pettersson and still be competitive if he gets a 14+ million dollar offer sheet and that offer sheet does not have to be for 7 years either, it could be one or two but the Canucks could not match it. AND if that team happens to surge to the top 25 to 32 then the 4 1rst round picks are not much better than the team's 2nd rounders now, just a few spots below them.

 

Why Pettersson might accept that offer sheet is evident by his comments. He isn't brain dead either, he can see that the team is a group put together to try to make the playoffs not win a cup, the ages are all wrong for that. No depth, next year no 4, 5, 6 defence of high quality, no cap space to sign FA's with even less in 2 thru 4 years of OEL buyout increasing to over 4 million a year. Who is going to be the 2nd line center in 3 years? Miller at 33 going on 34? If he is then the team is finished.

 

The way it looks the management has structured the cap and team is that they are going to blow it up in 2 to 3 years or rebuilding by trading Hughes and Pettersson to fill out the new core with top prospects and draft picks.

 

 

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

It is more than JUST drafted players now, cap planning also is a huge component.

 

But as an example, a drafted player is very cap friendly for up to 6 years.

Where would the Canucks get another Hughes or Pettersson or Demko if not through the draft.

 

Using draft picks, once there is an established core and the team is in the top 10 in the league, give trade value beyond what is likely to be drafted in those spots BUT they still have depth value and a chance for a late bloomer. For years Detroit traded away their 1rst's to win cups and consecutive playoff appearances, ditto with Pittsburgh who are now feeling the effects of being a winning team, no depth from late draft spots.

 

Essentially the core, 5 skaters and a goalie, should be drafted and close to the same age, within 4 years of each other then the team can be filled out by trading those #45 to 70 picks for 3rd 4th liners and 4, 5, 6 dmen.

 

As an example, IF Canucks take Tkachuk, Sergachev or Nylander instead of Juloevi, take any of the next 6 picks in 2014 instead of Virtanen and keep McCann, IF they keep the 1rst traded away for ORL/Garland and take Guenther, combined with Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Podkolzin and Miller this team has a much diffferent cap structure and most of the these players are between 21 and 26 yrs old and some just coming to the point of losing cap control, some will still be RFA's with huge trade asset potential.

 

The cap situation would be much altered in that most of the key players are under 26 years old.

 

Instead the Canucks have TWO core players under 26 now and some that are in the top six they have not been able to trade for 2 years at least partially due to the lack of cap planning. There are no draft picks or prospects to take away any players jobs in the top six or top 4 on defence.

 

The sob story of the league is the cap makes trading so hard, so where else to get 8 years worth of players unless 3 or 4 years are used to draft top star quality players.

 

There is a rule in the NHL that is never used, the offer sheet.

 

This is a rule that really could put the hammer to poorly run teams like the Canucks. The Canucks are not good enough to strip the team down to keep Pettersson and still be competitive if he gets a 14+ million dollar offer sheet and that offer sheet does not have to be for 7 years either, it could be one or two but the Canucks could not match it. AND if that team happens to surge to the top 25 to 32 then the 4 1rst round picks are not much better than the team's 2nd rounders now, just a few spots below them.

 

Why Pettersson might accept that offer sheet is evident by his comments. He isn't brain dead either, he can see that the team is a group put together to try to make the playoffs not win a cup, the ages are all wrong for that. No depth, next year no 4, 5, 6 defence of high quality, no cap space to sign FA's with even less in 2 thru 4 years of OEL buyout increasing to over 4 million a year. Who is going to be the 2nd line center in 3 years? Miller at 33 going on 34? If he is then the team is finished.

 

The way it looks the management has structured the cap and team is that they are going to blow it up in 2 to 3 years or rebuilding by trading Hughes and Pettersson to fill out the new core with top prospects and draft picks.

 

 

 

thanks this is a good assessment of where the team is at. 

 

There's a chance that the team can improve more than this if they can clear enough cap for next years FA, make another very smart trade (or two) which would then give them a better playoff shot.

 

But JR said it, many things have to go well. But I think they simply made the decision to delay the blow up by 3-4 years and see what they can make from this group. 

 

[TheGuardian]

16 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

thanks this is a good assessment of where the team is at. 

 

There's a chance that the team can improve more than this if they can clear enough cap for next years FA, make another very smart trade (or two) which would then give them a better playoff shot.

 

But JR said it, many things have to go well. But I think they simply made the decision to delay the blow up by 3-4 years and see what they can make from this group. 

 

These people are supposed experts, they can see where the team is headed and where other teams are in their "windows". Too many teams will be able to use the additional cap space to sign players whereas the Canucks additional is used to pay OEL's buyout instead.

 

Funny thing in Vancouver, Myers 6 million and Erkisson's 6 million are/were anchors but the team still got minutes of icetime out of them no matter how useful but then OEL's 4.75 mil is for nothing and hardly mentioned. Now who is drinking the koolaid?

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, TheGuardian said:

These people are supposed experts, they can see where the team is headed and where other teams are in their "windows". Too many teams will be able to use the additional cap space to sign players whereas the Canucks additional is used to pay OEL's buyout instead.

 

Funny thing in Vancouver, Myers 6 million and Erkisson's 6 million are/were anchors but the team still got minutes of icetime out of them no matter how useful but then OEL's 4.75 mil is for nothing and hardly mentioned. Now who is drinking the koolaid?

 

 

there's just no appetite for a blow up. Its just not an option. So arguing against the strategy is all theoretical, we are not going to see it. 

 

So I get it, I see the plan and what they are trying to put on the ice for a competitive team for the next 2-3 years. 

 

We've seen teams sneak in and make decent playoff runs and thats what they are going for. I'm not going to rail against it, I'm just going to try to enjoy it.

 

[TheGuardian]

15 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

there's just no appetite for a blow up. Its just not an option. So arguing against the strategy is all theoretical, we are not going to see it. 

 

So I get it, I see the plan and what they are trying to put on the ice for a competitive team for the next 2-3 years. 

 

We've seen teams sneak in and make decent playoff runs and thats what they are going for. I'm not going to rail against it, I'm just going to try to enjoy it.

 

What I really liked about Rutherford's first introduction was his frankness about what he planned. Not just a playoff spot but a cup contender for years.

 

This current whatever again is Allvin's plan. The way he has described the Canuck fans really says a lot of what that plan is. Term used like "the fans deserve a playoffs", contract decisions like doing the exact opposite of what Rutherford stated, no long term on 30 something players because they fall off sooner and are not cost effective in the later years, the desperate buyout of OEL and the almost decade of pain that will cause, again the opposite of Rutherford's statements, "paraphrased here, "no more trading away 1rst round picks or any, getting more" 

 

Florida didn't just sneak in, they were the top team in the league the year before, StLouis didn't just sneak in, again they were a top team the year before, the 94 Canucks didn't just sneak in they were a top team the year before, LA was a 95 to 101 pt playoff team prior to winning it, Anaheim was a finalist for the conference and dup before winning it, Chicago came out of a total 5 year rebuild with one playoff round then won a few cups, Colorado flirted with the playoff then blew it up for the second time in 4 years, tanked and then played playoff 4 years while the next group of draft picks came of age winning the cup.

 

Very few teams just squeak in and do well, the losers do though, Arizona, Columbus for a few years, Buffalo, NJD rebuilds with tanks twice the last 5 years ago with one playoff appearance fitted in there. A lot like the Canucks last 9 years, one lucky appearance and not close since.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

 

 

Florida didn't just sneak in, they were the top team in the league the year before, StLouis didn't just sneak in, again they were a top team the year before, the 94 Canucks didn't just sneak in they were a top team the year before, LA was a 95 to 101 pt playoff team prior to winning it, Anaheim was a finalist for the conference and dup before winning it, Chicago came out of a total 5 year rebuild with one playoff round then won a few cups, Colorado flirted with the playoff then blew it up for the second time in 4 years, tanked and then played playoff 4 years while the next group of draft picks came of age winning the cup.

 

COL had an accidental re-set for sure, and got so lucky with the draft its ridiculous. But you have to be in that position to be lucky.

 

I think this year is what our mgmt group is seeing as their "year before" i.e. LA's 95 pt year, and then make the run next year and if Petey stays for a few more after.

 

I'm hopeful (but also realistic on the chances) for players like Willander and Lekkerimaki to step in and perform like we've seen young players on other teams do. If that can happen? dunno, could be fun. 

 

If Petey walks tho the whole plan is toasted. 

[Huggy Bear]

On 10/13/2023 at 11:27 AM, Dankmemes187 said:

 

mmm delicious fresh squeezed low hanging fruit juice....

 

Is that how you wet your blanket?

[WSAcanuck]

On 10/13/2023 at 11:50 AM, Huggy Bear said:

Then how will we know when to stop complaining about depth?

When you shift to think about it as assets to make the right moves to build a winning roster instead of thinking of it as depth. 

[Huggy Bear]

Just now, WSAcanuck said:

When you shift to think about it as assets to make the right moves to build a winning roster instead of thinking of it as depth. 

Rhetorical question, amigo. 

[WSAcanuck]

1 minute ago, Huggy Bear said:

Rhetorical question, amigo. 

Thinking of it as asset management means thinking of accumulating enough prime assets to improve your lineup anywhere it needs to be improved. 
 

No such thing as too many quality assets. 

[Huggy Bear]

19 minutes ago, WSAcanuck said:

Thinking of it as asset management means thinking of accumulating enough prime assets to improve your lineup anywhere it needs to be improved. 
 

No such thing as too many quality assets. 

Who’s not thinking about it as asset management?

Complaining about past management is Abe Simpson yelling at the clouds.

 

Meanwhile, in the present, JRPA have kept their last two 1sts, got decent assets back for Bo, and traded Schenn and Lazar for 3rd/4th round picks, while sending 5ths for impact players like Bear and Lafferty.

 

Added Åman, Bains, Hirose, McWard…

 

Pretty good balance of improving the team while managing assets, don’t you think?

Edited October 14, 2023 by Huggy Bear

[PeteyBOI]

2 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

 

Is that how you wet your blanket?

hey i told you to stop creeping through the windows okay... lets just say the low hanging fruit is bountiful, its hard not to spill a little juice from time to time... which is a shame cause the juice is usually the sweetest.

 

Your posts are quite enjoyable, and i was just merely pointing out the cleverness of your sly cynicism. why so sensitive?

 

 

[Huggy Bear]

19 hours ago, Dankmemes187 said:

hey i told you to stop creeping through the windows okay... lets just say the low hanging fruit is bountiful, its hard not to spill a little juice from time to time... which is a shame cause the juice is usually the sweetest.

 

Your posts are quite enjoyable, and i was just merely pointing out the cleverness of your sly cynicism. why so sensitive?

 

 

Lol. 
 

Honestly, your post seemed like a lazy ‘koolaid’ strafe, hence my lazy reply-in-kind.

 

Also, I’m just not getting your extended metaphor on low-hanging fruit juice.

[PeteyBOI]

5 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Lol. 
 

Honestly, your post seemed like a lazy ‘koolaid’ strafe, hence my lazy reply-in-kind.

 

Also, I’m just not getting your extended metaphor on low-hanging fruit juice.

call me clueless too.. never heard of a koolaid strafe before...

 

actually i believe my post that contained a metaphor would be the exact opposite of lazy... do you know how long it took to find that gif? all the other low hanging fruit gifs were trash, i had think outside the box. my entire comment changed to fit that gif.

 

as for the metaphor what do you not understand? if you must know, i answered your  "is that what wet your blanket" in several different ways...

 

1...Literal: you were spying on me, how else would you know i spilled my juice... 2. im referring to your original post and my response to it.  Low hanging fruit is everywhere, and its easy to get carried away squeezing the juice...(perhaps in the past i may have squeezed the low hanging fruit and "wet my blanket"...)

[Huggy Bear]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:49 PM, Dankmemes187 said:

as for the metaphor what do you not understand?

Koolaid refers to ‘drinking the Koolaid,’ and a strafe is a fly by comment.

 

What were you trying to say in in your original post with the gif?
 

What was the low hanging fruit? Who’s drinking the juice?
 

@Dankmemes187 - noticed you didn’t reply here

Edited October 27, 2023 by Huggy Bear

[Jaimito]

Frances got her $100K. If BB could have scored another one, $1 million.  Coach should have put the PP1 out there in the late third.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CypJn41RQ0F/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Jaimito

[John.Tallhouse]

On 10/13/2023 at 1:42 AM, Ghostsof1915 said:

New board.

New trolls.

 

If you don’t have trolls you ain’t doing it right 

 

 

[high flying Vee]

On 10/11/2023 at 9:57 PM, high flying Vee said:

The additions to this team look to have really solidified the lineup.

 

will be even better when the injured guys are back

Sure is nice to have big Sauce back. 

Still missing Blueger, he should have a real positive impact on the forward group.