[Re-Signing] Colorado extends Devon Toews

[therodigy]

1 hour ago, D.B Cooper said:

Taking a large cut to stay with a contender.  
I wish some of our guys would do that too……. Coughpeteycough. 

I mean... We'd need to be a contender first, but I see what you're saying.

[Miss Korea]

51 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Gotta credit Sakic and the Avs for that, Lou gave up on him too quickly, once upon a time folks used to lambast Sakic as a mediocre GM

 

Funny how things work out

 

To no one's surprise, Lou has no idea what he's doing anymore.  The dude has been coaching since the 1960s.  

 

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

That's a solid contender bargain, easily could have got another $1m+ on the open market.

 

Devon Toews is arguably one of the best defencemen in the world.  But since he plays with the best defenceman in the world, he's getting undervalued, even by you.  He would probably fetch $9.5 + on the UFA market.

[Grandmaster]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

That's a solid contender bargain, easily could have got another $1m+ on the open market.

JT did the same here. Doesn’t have to be a “contender”. The teammates, direction of the franchise and the city he plays in are also factors.

[aGENT]

58 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

To no one's surprise, Lou has no idea what he's doing anymore.  The dude has been coaching since the 1960s.  

 

 

Devon Toews is arguably one of the best defencemen in the world.  But since he plays with the best defenceman in the world, he's getting undervalued, even by you.  He would probably fetch $9.5 + on the UFA market.

 

3 minutes ago, Grandmaster said:

JT did the same here. Doesn’t have to be a “contender”. The teammates, direction of the franchise and the city he plays in are also factors.

 

Sure... Though I'd argue Miller's discount is lower. He basically took 1 year less term (or the equivalent of ~$1m/year). As Lee Seung-hyeon noted, Toews would likely have gotten MUCH more on the open market. My "$1m+" (note the "+" Lee Seung-hyeon) was basically minimum market value to give a discount to another contender. Going to a lesser ("bubble") team, he could have demanded, and got, even more.

 

But either way, we're all arguing over minutia. It's a SIZEABLE discount to stay on a VERY good team, with a VERY good D partner.

[R3aL]

There goes the talk of us snagging him 

[Wing]

Dang it this is a very very good contract for Colorado.

 

It just proves that players needing to take market value contract for the sake of other players is not always true.

[Rusty Shackleford]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

I remember it being pegged as a fair trade at the time, it didn't age well though

 

But everything just kinda came together for the Avs, Mac was realizing his potential and the team went supernova once Makar stepped in 

 

Hockey's funny that way sometimes, Avs made a lot of smart moves but they also got lucky 

 

No other league does luck have more of an affect than the NHL.  

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, R3aL said:

There goes the talk of us snagging him 

 

Didn't really make a TONNE of sense for us to target him anyway. If he was a RD...sure. But we don't really need another top pair LD making $9m++ (which is what Hughes will command on his next deal and we would have had to paid Toews to get him here).

 

Barring a legit, 2 way #2D falling in our lap...what we really need is a ~$4.5-6.5m dollar Tanev replacement. A solid, 2B/3A that has good enough puck skills, passing and skating to play WITH Hughes but mostly plays a solid defensive game (Pesce...should he make it to UFA). The more offense and/or size/grit they bring, the higher they'd be in that salary spectrum. 

 

At least until/if Willander is ready for that position.

 

We'll also eventually need a Cole replacement...though I'm hopeful one of Hirose/D-Petey grows in to that role as well. Hopefully Cole can sign decreasing cap 1 year deals to continue here until they're ready (assuming he stays capable).

[DownUndaCanuck]

He's got a combined what...140 pts in 190 games with Colorado and a whopping +120 over that span, and he plays like 25 minutes a night. Beast. I know it seems like he might be a product of his team/Makar but he drives a lot of those stats himself.

[D.B Cooper]

2 hours ago, timberz21 said:

 

Are we a contender?

 

3 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

So you want Pettey to leave and take a pay cut to play for a contender?

Couple of comedians around here.  
lol. 
It’s pretty obvious we are not contenders, but we’d have a better chance of becoming one if guys like Petey took a nice haircut and Miller didn’t need to cash in on a retirement deal.  
Garland maxed out his value, etc….

The whole team buys in, you can become a contender much easier. 

[HKSR]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

I remember it being pegged as a fair trade at the time, it didn't age well though

 

But everything just kinda came together for the Avs, Mac was realizing his potential and the team went supernova once Makar stepped in 

 

Hockey's funny that way sometimes, Avs made a lot of smart moves but they also got lucky 

Teams don't win cups without a lot of luck.

[timberz21]

13 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

 

Couple of comedians around here.  
lol. 
It’s pretty obvious we are not contenders, but we’d have a better chance of becoming one if guys like Petey took a nice haircut and Miller didn’t need to cash in on a retirement deal.  
Garland maxed out his value, etc….

The whole team buys in, you can become a contender much easier. 

 

Unfortunately, it's the other way around.  The Canucks organization needs to build a contender, then guys like Petey can buy-in.  Otherwise, no guarantee if he sign a friendly deal that the Canucks will become contenders.  

 

Toews doesn't sign that deal if he would've played the same way, but still be with the NYI.

[D.B Cooper]

7 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

 

Unfortunately, it's the other way around.  The Canucks organization needs to build a contender, then guys like Petey can buy-in.  Otherwise, no guarantee if he sign a friendly deal that the Canucks will become contenders.  

 

Toews doesn't sign that deal if he would've played the same way, but still be with the NYI.

True.  It goes both ways for sure.  
Gotta have something to buy into. 
But it’s damn hard to build it without the reasonable and team friendly contracts.  

Petey deserves a huge contract, but not many teams win with 12mill$ contracts on their cap

[JeremyCuddles]

Feeling better about a Hronek deal. People were saying he is gonna get 8+mil off us. If he gets 1mil more than Toews we need to fire our management team.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Feeling better about a Hronek deal. People were saying he is gonna get 8+mil off us. If he gets 1mil more than Toews we need to fire our management team.

 

Without a discount, I could see him being about the same (hopefully a touch under) as Toews. I don't think he was ever getting $8m+

[Coconuts]

56 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

 

Unfortunately, it's the other way around.  The Canucks organization needs to build a contender, then guys like Petey can buy-in.  Otherwise, no guarantee if he sign a friendly deal that the Canucks will become contenders.  

 

Toews doesn't sign that deal if he would've played the same way, but still be with the NYI.

 

I think this is important, it's common for fans to express hopes that players will take less in order to help work towards being a contender, it happens here and it happened on CDC for years. People will point to past players like Burrows and Kesler, when more often than not that just doesn't happen and when it does it's often after a player has already won or gotten close to winning. Colorado has the benefit of Toews already having won a cup with them, they have the benefit of being a legit contender who is positioned to continue contending. The Avs are, and will likely continue to be, a top team.

 

It's much easier for the Avs GM to have pointed at the success the Avs have had and to say "take a bit less, stick around and be part of our continued success" than it is for Rutherford and co to be like "hey Pettersson, please take a bit less than your market value in hopes of winning something with a team that's spun it's wheels for years". The Canucks don't have the same leverage of having been a top tier team who's been in the mix for a cup, they can't even argue they've consistently been competitive, not during Pettersson's stint as a Canuck. 

 

More often than not star players do not take discounts, every fanbase hopes that their top players will and more often than not it doesn't typically happen. The Canucks are trying to win Pettersson over, that's pretty clear, but I think that has more about trying to get him to sign long term as opposed to trying to get him to take a discount. Pettersson is instrumental to any notions of the Canucks being contenders any time soon, more likely than not he gets paid 11.5M+ and gets to dictate whether he wants to stick around on a medium or long term deal. It's not as if the Canucks are going to win a trade that involves shipping Pettersson out, finding a prime-aged 1C is a hard thing to do in this league. 

. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Coconuts

[cripplereh]

Great d al for the Avs.

 

Hope our guys play nice when contract talks happen.

[wai_lai416]

right situation at the right time for toews and he's paying it back. toews deal is a steal for the avs i didn't expect this cap hit nor avs able to re-sign him. toews developed into one of the league's best but at the same time i think he is benefitting from playing with Makar as they both compliments each other.. i don't think toews become the player he is without makar. he gets a cup and a truck of cash as a reward and he gives colorado a great deal to remain to retirement.. these kind of deals are very unlikely to happen for us since we haven't won a cup recently nor a cup contender or a tax friendly city like colorado

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

To no one's surprise, Lou has no idea what he's doing anymore.  The dude has been coaching since the 1960s.  

 

 

Devon Toews is arguably one of the best defencemen in the world.  But since he plays with the best defenceman in the world, he's getting undervalued, even by you.  He would probably fetch $9.5 + on the UFA market.

What if Devon Towes was playing with Tyler Myers instead of Cale Makar?  Do you think he is still a $9.5 million player?  
 

What has Devon Toews accomplished without Cale Makar by his side?

Edited October 13, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[HKSR]

3 hours ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Feeling better about a Hronek deal. People were saying he is gonna get 8+mil off us. If he gets 1mil more than Toews we need to fire our management team.

 

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Without a discount, I could see him being about the same (hopefully a touch under) as Toews. I don't think he was ever getting $8m+

I dunno about that... I mean the guy is on pace for 164 points... 

[wai_lai416]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

What if Devon Towes was playing with Tyler Myers instead of Cale Makar?  Do you think he is still a $9.5 million player?  
 

What has Devon Toews accomplished without Cale Makar by his side?

yup sometimes it's all about that synergy.. it's like having player operating at 125% efficiency rather than operating at 70% efficiency in the wrong fit/position which is and was the issue over the years with the canucks defence.. Schmdt, OEL, Myers, whoever else on defence over the years.. wrong role wrong fit wrong partners.

[Alflives]

Same contract Hironek will get. 

[aGENT]

21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

What if Devon Towes was playing with Tyler Myers instead of Cale Makar?  Do you think he is still a $9.5 million player?  
 

What has Devon Toews accomplished without Cale Makar by his side?

 

I mean he'd still likely be a really good Dman. He was pretty good when the Islanders traded him and he's only gotten better. That said, ABSOLUTELY being paired with Makar makes him even better still. I've been harping on about complementary partners, roles, etc for years. It matters very much who you get to play with in a team sport.

[Gawdzukes]

The dream is over 

[Gawdzukes]

31 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I mean he'd still likely be a really good Dman. He was pretty good when the Islanders traded him and he's only gotten better. That said, ABSOLUTELY being paired with Makar makes him even better still. I've been harping on about complementary partners, roles, etc for years. It matters very much who you get to play with in a team sport.

 

Yeah for sure. It's like Pippen and Jordan. When you're playing with someone who always makes the the right plays, always practices like he plays, puts positive pressure and reinforcement on you, and therefore incentivizes you daily, all while winning multiple trophies, and making huge bank, you're going to realize all of your potential compared to someone playing for the Thrashers, or say San Jose this year, almost no matter how hard you try. For starters it's just way easier to learn how to succeed at that level when you're already succeeding. It makes the learning curve easier too.

 

Yeah it totally makes a difference in a team sport. I'm pretty sure that may have a run on sentence back there lol. Easy to get carried away when thinking about the benefits.