[Re-Signing] Colorado extends Devon Toews

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

What if Devon Towes was playing with Tyler Myers instead of Cale Makar?  Do you think he is still a $9.5 million player?  
 

What has Devon Toews accomplished without Cale Makar by his side?

 

Couldn't the opposite be said though? Makar has absolutely benefitted from having Toews as a partner, their synergy is something special 

 

There's no question as to who the better player is, but sometimes having a complimentary partner helps a player level up so to speak 

 

What if Makar was playing with a Myers type?

[R3aL]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Didn't really make a TONNE of sense for us to target him anyway. If he was a RD...sure. But we don't really need another top pair LD making $9m++ (which is what Hughes will command on his next deal and we would have had to paid Toews to get him here).

 

Barring a legit, 2 way #2D falling in our lap...what we really need is a ~$4.5-6.5m dollar Tanev replacement. A solid, 2B/3A that has good enough puck skills, passing and skating to play WITH Hughes but mostly plays a solid defensive game (Pesce...should he make it to UFA). The more offense and/or size/grit they bring, the higher they'd be in that salary spectrum. 

 

At least until/if Willander is ready for that position.

 

We'll also eventually need a Cole replacement...though I'm hopeful one of Hirose/D-Petey grows in to that role as well. Hopefully Cole can sign decreasing cap 1 year deals to continue here until they're ready (assuming he stays capable).

Completely agree. But it would have been a hot talking point / possibility in media talks so I’m happy we won’t be doing that!

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Couldn't the opposite be said though? Makar has absolutely benefitted from having Toews as a partner, their synergy is something special 

 

There's no question as to who the better player is, but sometimes having a complimentary partner helps a player level up so to speak 

 

What if Makar was playing with a Myers type?

Cale Makar had 50 points in 57 games and won the Calder trophy without Devon Toews. He would be fine without him. Devon meanwhile hasn’t accomplished anything without Makar by his side. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[wai_lai416]

23 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Couldn't the opposite be said though? Makar has absolutely benefitted from having Toews as a partner, their synergy is something special 

 

There's no question as to who the better player is, but sometimes having a complimentary partner helps a player level up so to speak 

 

What if Makar was playing with a Myers type?

i dunno makar have the pedigree talent and hype prior i think he'll still be good even with myers except they'll be more goals against.. but a good management would never put a myer type with makar.. they'd prolly go out and grab a luke schenn before putting myers with makar.

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Cale Makar had 50 points in 57 games and won the Calder trophy without Devon Toews. He would be fine without him. Devon meanwhile hasn’t accomplished anything without Makar by his side. 

Makar sucked pucks without Toews. Hughes is better than Makar and proved it when he had Tanev as his partner and set the rookie point record for D during the playoffs. Now with Hronek (a proper partner) Hughes will score over 100 points and win the Norris and lead us to the Cup. 
Makar will very likely end up on the IR. He’s a head down puck carrier. And that’s never good. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Makar sucked pucks without Toews. Hughes is better than Makar and proved it when he had Tanev as his partner and set the rookie point record for D during the playoffs. Now with Hronek (a proper partner) Hughes will score over 100 points and win the Norris and lead us to the Cup. 
Makar will very likely end up on the IR. He’s a head down puck carrier. And that’s never good. 

Makar?

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dunno makar have the pedigree talent and hype prior i think he'll still be good even with myers except they'll be more goals against.. but a good management would never put a myer type with makar.. they'd prolly go out and grab a luke schenn before putting myers with makar.

Ian Cole would look great next to Cale Makar. 

[wai_lai416]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Ian Cole would look great next to Cale Makar. 

i think any of the more "defensive" player would look good if not great beside makar

[Miss Korea]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Cale Makar had 50 points in 57 games and won the Calder trophy without Devon Toews. He would be fine without him. Devon meanwhile hasn’t accomplished anything without Makar by his side. 

It's well documented that Devon Toews has excelled on both sides of the ice, with or without Makar.  He was elite in New York on the third pairing with Mayfield.  He was elite when he started alongside Graves and Girard in Colorado.  And now with Makar, his production has finally caught up to his insanely high analytics.

 

Toews has literally been elite since his rookie year.  You just can't dispute that.  What is your measure of accomplishment?  Is it just pure point production like Erik Karlsson?  Is that all you see?

 

This is the legacy of Isles Barry Trotz.  The man pumps out two-way D-men like a chicken laying eggs.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Miss Korea

[iinatcc]

7 years for 7.2 Million for an Elite D-Man 

 

I'd hate to make this all about Vancouver but there's no way people can the Myers signing as a wasn't massive overpayment now  nor that OEL's contract isn't that bad if Towes can be have a contract like this. 

 

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

Makar sucked pucks without Toews. Hughes is better than Makar and proved it when he had Tanev as his partner and set the rookie point record for D during the playoffs. Now with Hronek (a proper partner) Hughes will score over 100 points and win the Norris and lead us to the Cup. 
Makar will very likely end up on the IR. He’s a head down puck carrier. And that’s never good. 

 

Sure ...

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by iinatcc

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Without a discount, I could see him being about the same (hopefully a touch under) as Toews. I don't think he was ever getting $8m+

Yep, this 8m talk is a ridiculous, seemed to me he was always getting a Myers type offer, was the Myers replacement (Hronek).    Maybe a bit more with cap going up  and maybe a bit over 7 if he scores 50 points and most of that time is with QHs.   As for Toews, NYI had no cap space for him, couldn't make it, and COL jumped on him and it was considered an underpayment (2 late seconds is still better then a late first though..so was close, just missing a project prospect).    That's what happens to teams with poor planning/cap management.    Not sure if that was on Lou. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

7 years for 7.2 Million for an Elite D-Man 

 

I'd hate to make this all about Vancouver but there's no way people can the Myers signing as a wasn't massive overpayment now  nor that OEL's contract isn't that bad if Towes can be have a contract like this. 

 

 

Sure ...

 

 

Myers was considered a bit below market value at the time.   UFAs.   Toews absolutely took at least a million less from a similar low to no state tax team ... which about half the league could compete on.    As for OEL massive face palm deal.    Myers was fine his first couple seasons.   Before Myers it was almost half a decade of Del Zotto, Stetcher,  Hutton, Biega's (the sea of Granlunds on D).   OEL - Myers was a decent although well overpaid pairing for one year.    His last season is now, we've added another Schenn in Cole (great bandaid) and Hronek (hopefully a great long term player).    
 

This team has needed a Quin like trade now for 3 years.   To give it a real shot.   Hasn't happened, although it's moving in the right direction.  

 

7.2 in COL add 11%, that's what he'd be signing in VAN  - IF we were a contender.  So just under 8.    It's a discount but not as big as some might think.   8.5 x 7 .... would you do that?   QHs and Toews would be our long term D's.   Not on the same pairing.   There is a 20 million dollar difference in this deal then Myers deal isn't there?   

Edited October 14, 2023 by IBatch

[AatuD2]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:31 AM, Miss Korea said:

Holy Jesus

 

 

 

 

These players cards are HIGHLY dependent on your linemate/defensive partner, and also your entire team. 

 

Look at some cards from Anaheim's team and you'd be hard pressed to find any good ones. 

 

I'm not knocking Toews here, but he's not the 99th percentile dman that they make him out to be. 

[AatuD2]

On 10/14/2023 at 4:20 AM, iinatcc said:

7 years for 7.2 Million for an Elite D-Man 

 

I'd hate to make this all about Vancouver but there's no way people can the Myers signing as a wasn't massive overpayment now  nor that OEL's contract isn't that bad if Towes can be have a contract like this. 

 

 

Sure ...

 

 

 

Myers' deal was widely believed to be 7 x 7 If you remember all the chatter back then.  

 

That's what the deals were trending to in those days. 

 

Give it two years without the flat cap and we are going to return to 6 million 3rd pairing d-men. 

 

PS. Myers has been deployed as a 1st or 2nd pairing dman his entire tenure here. 

[AatuD2]

On 10/13/2023 at 6:51 PM, Coconuts said:

 

Couldn't the opposite be said though? Makar has absolutely benefitted from having Toews as a partner, their synergy is something special 

 

There's no question as to who the better player is, but sometimes having a complimentary partner helps a player level up so to speak 

 

What if Makar was playing with a Myers type?

 

They both benefited from each other, but there's no question in my mind that Makar is the one that's pulling that pairing up. 

 

He was incredible in the playoffs in his first year, then won a Calder in his second year. 

 

Both of them also benefit from having a top 5 forward in the league in MacKinnon amongst others. 

 

Toews is probably the 5th to 10th best RD in the league for me. Hronek is 10th to 15th IMO. 

 

Hoping to get Hronek on a 6.5 mil deal is not unreasonable. Lets first see if he's worth it. 

[Miss Korea]

1 hour ago, AatuD2 said:

These players cards are HIGHLY dependent on your linemate/defensive partner, and also your entire team. 

 

Look at some cards from Anaheim's team and you'd be hard pressed to find any good ones. 

 

I'm not knocking Toews here, but he's not the 99th percentile dman that they make him out to be. 

I've already had some discussions here about Toews succeeding no matter which team or linemate he played with so far in his NHL career.  Here are his partners through the years:

 

 

Toews' partner has not necessarily affected his on-ice performance because he is an elite player in his own right and has been a perfect fit in both the New York and Colorado systems.  These two teams have opposite playing styles: NY is dump and chase, while COL is focused on puck possession.  It's not far-fetched to think Toews could fit into any team's system.

 

Anaheim is a bad team - the worst in the NHL, by last year's standards.  Maybe they're that bad because the individual players are also bad?  There are some decent players but just not enough to keep the team afloat:

 

[iinatcc]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:26 PM, Rusty Shackleford said:

 

No other league does luck have more of an affect than the NHL.  

 

Is it luck or good management? I remember having an argument with someone here, and this person was claiming all of Tampa's success (winning trades, getting elite players in later draft rounds, good team friendly contracts, and good FA signings) were due to luck. 

 

I think it's safe to say what the Avs and Bolts did was more on good management than luck. If their hits only happens occasionally then you could attribute it to lock but if they keep just hitting home runs on their transactions and deals, then I don't think it's luck anymore.

 

Chicago always moving up the draft a few years removed from being a playoff team, on the other hand, was luck. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by iinatcc

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

Is it luck or good management? I remember having an argument with someone here, and this person was claiming all of Tampa's success (winning trades, getting elite players in later draft rounds, good team friendly contracts, and good FA signings) were due to luck. 

 

I think it's safe to say what the Avs and Bolts did was more on good management than luck. If their hits only happens occasionally then you could attribute it to lock but if they keep just hitting home runs on their transactions and deals, then I don't think it's luck anymore.

 

Chicago always moving up the draft a few years removed from being a playoff team, on the other hand, was luck. 

 

Col did have the unintended tank that led to some awesome draft luck. People were calling for Sakic to be fired.

 

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

22 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

Is it luck or good management? I remember having an argument with someone here, and this person was claiming all of Tampa's success (winning trades, getting elite players in later draft rounds, good team friendly contracts, and good FA signings) were due to luck. 

 

I think it's safe to say what the Avs and Bolts did was more on good management than luck. If their hits only happens occasionally then you could attribute it to lock but if they keep just hitting home runs on their transactions and deals, then I don't think it's luck anymore.

 

Chicago always moving up the draft a few years removed from being a playoff team, on the other hand, was luck. 

 

Completely agree.  I was more alluding to in game luck.  

[iinatcc]

2 hours ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

 

Completely agree.  I was more alluding to in game luck.  

 

Well that's another whole can of beans

 

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

10 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

Well that's another whole can of beans

 

 

 

"Luck is when preparedness meets opportunity"

[Tower102]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:14 AM, AatuD2 said:

 

They both benefited from each other, but there's no question in my mind that Makar is the one that's pulling that pairing up. 

 

He was incredible in the playoffs in his first year, then won a Calder in his second year. 

 

Both of them also benefit from having a top 5 forward in the league in MacKinnon amongst others. 

 

Toews is probably the 5th to 10th best RD in the league for me. Hronek is 10th to 15th IMO. 

 

Hoping to get Hronek on a 6.5 mil deal is not unreasonable. Lets first see if he's worth it. 

Toews is LD fyi