[PGT] Vancouver Canucks 4 Edmonton Oilers 3 - Final, Oct 14th

[Ghostsof1915]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Where’s Hughson? 
 

Is he in the Notable Deaths thread?! 
 

Shorty for HNIC main broadcaster?

Hughson retired around the Covid outbreak. I think he just didn't want to travel anymore. Not sure what his income was like but I assume he was able to square a bunch of money away.

[IBatch]

29 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Is it a myth that Gillis was our GM during our most successful era? Two Presidents’ trophies and playing two games for the Cup. Sorry fellow Canuck fan, but that is inarguable fact. And then we got Benning, our worst. 

As far as playoff games and series won it's still Quin.  

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

As far as playoff games and series won it's still Quin.  

Quinn was great. But still Gillis’ clubs won two Presidents’ trophies and had two games to win the Cup. So they accomplished more. Gillis then Quinn with Benning last. 

[DelPiLeo]

Must give credit to PA and the coaching team to upgrade the team and improve the PK, imagine it was Edm PP against our last season's PK and backup goalie last night.

[The Duke]

1 hour ago, PistolPete13 said:

You wanna crown their ass?

 

What are you even on about? They’re a good team.  Wanting them to suck diminishes our wins. 

[Canuckle]

18 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I am still shocked that there's fans out there that think the top heavy formula works.

I was looking on Cap Friendly, and almost every one  of the top 3 forwards on Toronto are overpaid.

If each forward took 2-3 million off each.(Nylander is probably the best value, he's skilled but a flake.)

Toronto would have at least $6-9 million dollars.

They could shore up at least a good 1-2 developing d-men, and invest long term in a solid goaltender.

I understand Taveres you had to pay for Free Agency. But if he really wanted to win, he wasn't like Stamkos who took

a contract and left some money on the table.

Even JT Miller has taken less because he knows that gives him a better supporting cast.

 

McDavid doesn't seem to want to leave a bit of money off the table. You'd figure he'd shave a little off his salary but only sign for 5 years. And see if management will funnel the money in improving the defence and the backend.

$9.25 Million for Nurse is right up there with Seth Jones in Chicago making $9.5 million. 

Both teams have amazingly talented forwards. But after 1-2 lines it drops off a cliff. And both teams are weak on defence and goaltending.

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

 

Would you rather have

 

a handful of the best players in the game which eats the majority of the cap limiting your ability to improve in most other areas

 

Eg.

 

Three or four A+ grade and the rest C's and D tier

 

or

 

a team built more around every player being a 2nd liner with one or two top tier guys.

 

Eg. a few A grade and the rest B's and B+'s

 

Its almost a curse to have too many stars on one team the cap era. Especially so if, like you said, they are unwilling to take a bit less to have a better team.  Greedy little piggies.

[Sharpshooter]

29 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Hughson retired around the Covid outbreak. I think he just didn't want to travel anymore. Not sure what his income was like but I assume he was able to square a bunch of money away.

It’s a National Security issue. 
 

Hughson has to be drafted back into service and there should be Parliamentary legislation forthwith. 
 

 

[Canuckle]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Hmmmmmm, ever wonder what the correlation is there?

 

Rebuilds be like that.

 

Also, Benning wasn't the worst and Gillis wasn't the best.

 

People mostly give Gills credit for work that others did before he even got there. Yeah he played a role in getting that squad to the cup final, but that team wasn't even really his lol.

 

And I mean people want to ignore context to say best and worst, the  truth is Benning got this franchise more impact players than Gillis ever did! Arguably the best forward and undeniably the best d man they've ever had.

 

Benning: 1

 

Gillis: 0

 

[Goose]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Off topic. But does anyone wonder if Judd Brackett was grossly over-rated on here? It seems that PA and JR have done better in picking up players than the previous regime? At least short term wise.

 

 

hes doing well in MIN. PA and co doing a nice job jere tho

[Crabcakes]

22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Quinn was great. But still Gillis’ clubs won two Presidents’ trophies and had two games to win the Cup. So they accomplished more. Gillis then Quinn with Benning last. 

The difference between the Sedin era and other trips to the final was that in 2011 they were the favorite as opposed to a dark horse on an incredible run.  

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Rebuilds be like that.

 

Also, Benning wasn't the worst and Gillis wasn't the best.

 

People mostly give Gills credit for work that others did before he even got there. Yeah he played a role in getting that squad to the cup final, but that team wasn't even really his lol.

 

And I mean people want to ignore context to say best and worst, the  truth is Benning got this franchise more impact players than Gillis ever did! Arguably the best forward and undeniably the best d man they've ever had.

 

Benning: 1

 

Gillis: 0

 

If we’re scoring likability then absolutely Benning 1 and Gillis 0. Benning always came across as a decent person. Gillis seemed like a prickly pear. 

[Crabcakes]

5 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Rebuilds be like that.

 

Also, Benning wasn't the worst and Gillis wasn't the best.

 

People mostly give Gills credit for work that others did before he even got there. Yeah he played a role in getting that squad to the cup final, but that team wasn't even really his lol.

 

And I mean people want to ignore context to say best and worst, the  truth is Benning got this franchise more impact players than Gillis ever did! Arguably the best forward and undeniably the best d man they've ever had.

 

Benning: 1

 

Gillis: 0

 

I'm not a Gillis fan and it pains me to make this point.  The hardest part of team building is the last part; having the best team in the league.  Unfortunately for the Canucks, it also takes a little bit of luck to take home the cup.

 

Earlier stages are like paint by numbers and Benning couldn't keep between the lines.  He ended up making a mess.

[Crabcakes]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If we’re scoring likability then absolutely Benning 1 and Gillis 0. Benning always came across as a decent person. Gillis seemed like a prickly pear. 

Gillis was an asshole.  Just ask Bob Marjonovich

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Crabcakes said:

Gillis was an asshole.  Just ask Bob Marjonovich

So dealing with Gillis was like having a prickly pear shoved where the sun don’t shine? 

[timberz21]

46 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I am still shocked that there's fans out there that think the top heavy formula works.

I was looking on Cap Friendly, and almost every one  of the top 3 forwards on Toronto are overpaid.

If each forward took 2-3 million off each.(Nylander is probably the best value, he's skilled but a flake.)

Toronto would have at least $6-9 million dollars.

They could shore up at least a good 1-2 developing d-men, and invest long term in a solid goaltender.

I understand Taveres you had to pay for Free Agency. But if he really wanted to win, he wasn't like Stamkos who took

a contract and left some money on the table.

Even JT Miller has taken less because he knows that gives him a better supporting cast.

 

McDavid doesn't seem to want to leave a bit of money off the table. You'd figure he'd shave a little off his salary but only sign for 5 years. And see if management will funnel the money in improving the defence and the backend.

$9.25 Million for Nurse is right up there with Seth Jones in Chicago making $9.5 million. 

Both teams have amazingly talented forwards. But after 1-2 lines it drops off a cliff. And both teams are weak on defence and goaltending.

when Crosby signed his 2nd contrat in 2008-09, his cap hit % was 15.3%.  When McDavid signed in 2018-19 it was 15.7%.
 

the difference is Crosby had Malkin still in his ELC that year and won the cup.  They only won it back in 2016 and 2017 since by that time their cap hit was down to 12% ish.

 

CoVId and flat cap didn’t help the Oilers with such a high cap hit.  Also if the Oilers had a Fleury in net, things could be different.  Pittsburgh already had Fleury before they drafted Crosby and Geno.

 

So I don’t think it’s McDavid cap hit the problems,  I think Pittsburgh had much better hockey ops than Edmonton roght now and already had their #1 goalie. 

 

But I agree that Pittsburgh is a tough

Rebuilding model To follow.  They literally didn’t miss with in back to back to back with Fleury, Crosby, Malkin and Staal.  Not to mention Letang somewhere in there.

[Canuckle]

Just now, Alflives said:

If we’re scoring likability then absolutely Benning 1 and Gillis 0. Benning always came across as a decent person. Gillis seemed like a prickly pear. 

 

Not just liability but actual body of work.  Like I said if we're ignoring context here, Benning actually has a better track record of drafting and acquiring talent.

 

Of course we wouldn't expect Gillis to draft 1st round all-star talent while pushing to compete for a cup so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

Even though on paper its a fact Benning has drafted and acquired better players during his tenure than Gillis ever did.

 

Those are unfair terms though.

 

Just as it would be equally unfair terms to credit a guy for building a team he didn't really build saying he's the best while ignoring another GMs clearly better body of work and saying worst.

 

Just a tad hypocritical is all.

[Rip The Mesh]

45 minutes ago, IBatch said:

As far as playoff games and series won it's still Quin.  

I tend to agree....

 

[Canuckle]

5 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I'm not a Gillis fan and it pains me to make this point.  The hardest part of team building is the last part; having the best team in the league.  Unfortunately for the Canucks, it also takes a little bit of luck to take home the cup.

 

Earlier stages are like paint by numbers and Benning couldn't keep between the lines.  He ended up making a mess.

 

I disagree with that. The hardest part is drafting and building the talent needed to get into the conversation in the first place.

 

And yes, the recent rebuild here was a giant mess. The question is why. And to that I will always answer "ownership mandate to stay competitive." In my opinion, Jim Benning is and perhaps always will be the greatest scapegoat this market has ever seen.

[Devron]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If we’re scoring likability then absolutely Benning 1 and Gillis 0. Benning always came across as a decent person. Gillis seemed like a prickly pear. 

Benning is a good guy I think. Too nice in fact. Sharing too much with the media. Handing out big contracts to bottom 6 players. I don’t hate him. He’s still responsible for some of the great players we currently have. 

[GrammaInTheTub]

I am so thankful that this whole Gillis vs Benning thing came about before I became an active poster in our new home here. I have no need to redirect every thread into that debate and re-write the same entrenched position time and time again. They’re both long gone and the consequences are and will be set in stone. It makes no difference now which one sucked more.
 

And I mean no disrespect to those of you who are still heavily invested in this - I’m just thankful I’m not and that I can enjoy/lament the here and now.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

I am so thankful that this whole Gillis vs Benning thing came about before I became an active poster in our new home here. I have no need to redirect every thread into that debate and re-write the same entrenched position time and time again. They’re both long gone and the consequences are and will be set in stone. It makes no difference now which one sucked more.
 

And I mean no disrespect to those of you who are still heavily invested in this - I’m just thankful I’m not and that I can enjoy/lament the here and now.

 

[Canuckle]

20 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Gillis was an asshole.  Just ask Bob Marjonovich

 

Lol. What's Moj got to say about him?

[HIWATT]

not sure if posted. had to share.

[HIWATT]

23 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Gillis was an asshole.  Just ask Bob Marjonovich

All that means is that Gillis (may have been) an asshole to Moj.
Has nothing to do with anyone else. 

[Huggy Bear]

13 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

I am so thankful that this whole Gillis vs Benning thing came about before I became an active poster in our new home here. I have no need to redirect every thread into that debate and re-write the same entrenched position time and time again. They’re both long gone and the consequences are and will be set in stone. It makes no difference now which one sucked more.
 

And I mean no disrespect to those of you who are still heavily invested in this - I’m just thankful I’m not and that I can enjoy/lament the here and now.

It’s amazing how many threads devolve into these debates. While I respect those who want to have it, I have zero interest as well. 
 

Actually, how do we not have a dedicated thread for this?