The Housing Shortage

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, BarneyKook said:

 

There is some speculation to renovation flips, definitely easier to do in a hot market but there is also the service of upgrading the homes not only aesthetically but also upgrading to current building codes as well as addition of suites and ADU's. The added cost will just be passed on.

 

That’s a really good point.  Lots of buyers, especially first time buyers, do not want to renovate their homes.  They just want to purchase a turn key home that they can move into and not have to do any renovations at all.  Contractors who renovate homes add value to those homes, and in a lot of cases save those homes from being torn down by builders.  Taking that segment of sellers out of the market IMO is not really going to help things.  

 

IMO, this tax is nothing more than a way for the current government to get some brownie points from the electorate.  An election is coming soon, so expect to see more of this over the next few months.  Fully renovated homes are a big attraction to a lot of buyers.  Right now, to get permits and renovate a home it takes two years.  My buddy who is a builder is just finishing up a project in Burnaby. He bought the land two years ago.  He said it took him one year just to get the building permit.  That’s crazy…

[The Arrogant Worms]

B.C.’s aggressive push to clear roadblocks for housing is still meeting ... roadblocks

Projects have spent years hung up in approval processes in some cities. Some have been snarled by complications with meeting the affordability rules of different funding agencies

 

https://www.timescolonist.com/real-estate/bcs-aggressive-push-to-clear-roadblocks-for-housing-is-still-meeting-roadblocks-8360176

[UnkNuk]

Mark Carney opines on the housing shortage:

 

We all deserve affordable homes and a stable climate – and that is achievable

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/5647385edcff2020c0b78cafdec336f965b6fac6c5bf41ffeb1ac3eb5cc30ad2/CVNLNI7JCZDPDL3NR46MXGXF6Q/

[JIAHN]

I am convinced that the issue with housing costs are the raw land. It is not the only issue, but outside the lower mainland and Vancouver Island, land is cheaper, and no where near the cost of south western BC. 

 

I met a man in Nanaimo, who wanted to sub-divide a piece of his property, where he wanted to take 1 building lot off his property. He wanted $64,000, but he said that the real value (cost) would total approx. $225,000. He was being forced to put side walks in on both his and the property he wanted to sub-divide, even though there were not sidewalks on that side of the street, and he was forced to do a seismic test on the road in front of his property for the increased road traffic (totally ridiculous), amongst other permits, and zoning requirements.

 

Now, it is totally understandable that all that would be required if a new sub-division was being built, but this was hardly that, and underlines, how the one size does not fit all, regulations, do not always fit. And how actual costs can get out of hand quickly.

 

On a different, but somewhat related issue, land costs have been the actual driver of house prices in southern BC, and the cost of building a house, is actually more expensive outside of Vancouver/Victoria/Nanaimo, because of transportation of building materials, being hit with extra costs.

 

But the cost of the land outside of Vancouver/Victoria/Nanaimo, is cheap. Take in case, Dawson Creek, where a serviced lot is worth $65,000 to $110,000 in a new sub-division!!!! Now compare that with Nanaimo's $350,000 for a new lot and a Greater Vancouver lot ?????. 

 

Kind of makes you wonder why the Government does not open more land up and drive the cost down, that way? Or does it? It dawned on me that, every time a piece of property is sold, the good old government receives that good old 1% provincial sales tax windfall, could that have anything to do with it? 

 

The other problem I see is that, "IF" the government did drive the price of houses down, people's personal housing investment, would drop, and banks might have a problem with lending out more money than the house is actually worth.

 

It is not an easy problem to solve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19 by JIAHN

[JIAHN]

I actually heard a guy wanted to hang a picture and needed a building permit to drive in the nail into his wall!!!

 

True? Or False?

[Bob Long]

31 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

I am convinced that the issue with housing costs are the raw land. It is not the only issue, but outside the lower mainland and Vancouver Island, land is cheaper, and no where near the cost of south western BC. 

 

I met a man in Nanaimo, who wanted to sub-divide a piece of his property, where he wanted to take 1 building lot off his property. He wanted $64,000, but he said that the real value (cost) would total approx. $225,000. He was being forced to put side walks in on both his and the property he wanted to sub-divide, even though there were not sidewalks on that side of the street, and he was forced to do a seismic test on the road in front of his property for the increased road traffic (totally ridiculous), amongst other permits, and zoning requirements.

 

Now, it is totally understandable that all that would be required if a new sub-division was being built, but this was hardly that, and underlines, how the one size does not fit all, regulations, do not always fit. And how actual costs can get out of hand quickly.

 

On a different, but somewhat related issue, land costs have been the actual driver of house prices in southern BC, and the cost of building a house, is actually more expensive outside of Vancouver/Victoria/Nanaimo, because of transportation of building materials, being hit with extra costs.

 

But the cost of the land outside of Vancouver/Victoria/Nanaimo, is cheap. Take in case, Dawson Creek, where a serviced lot is worth $65,000 to $110,000 in a new sub-division!!!! Now compare that with Nanaimo's $350,000 for a new lot and a Greater Vancouver lot ?????. 

 

Kind of makes you wonder why the Government does not open more land up and drive the cost down, that way? Or does it? It dawned on me that, every time a piece of property is sold, the good old government receives that good old 1% provincial sales tax windfall, could that have anything to do with it? 

 

The other problem I see is that, "IF" the government did drive the price of houses down, people's personal housing investment, would drop, and banks might have a problem with lending out more money than the house is actually worth.

 

It is not an easy problem to solve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine if we did something like have fast moving trains out to rural areas. You might actually be able to grow small towns in BC.

[JIAHN]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Imagine if we did something like have fast moving trains out to rural areas. You might actually be able to grow small towns in BC.

 

Personally, I think as society shifts, and the computer age allows us to work remotely, in mass, then the ability to work from "small town" grows. The only problem with that theory is the "NOW" generation, DOES NOT want to work away from Starbucks or Mom and Dad, they want new, and do not want to sacrifice. Hell, they do not even want to work to get ahead. Nor get dirty. Nor work over time.

 

It is a different time, Bob. Society today, wants everything given to them, as it is their right, and blame rest solely on everyone else, and not me!

[Northern_Nuck]

17 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Imagine if we did something like have fast moving trains out to rural areas. You might actually be able to grow small towns in BC.

  Would be not bad in the 6 months where it’s snow free.

   I had a neighbour that moved up from Richmond 2 years ago, his house was for sale earlier this month and I asked why he’s moving, he said the 6 months of dark and cold and snow was too much for him and his family. He said they gained a whole new respect for northerners and that they’re moving back to the coast to hopefully never see -30° and 18” dumps of snow ever again. 

[Bob Long]

24 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

  Would be not bad in the 6 months where it’s snow free.

   I had a neighbour that moved up from Richmond 2 years ago, his house was for sale earlier this month and I asked why he’s moving, he said the 6 months of dark and cold and snow was too much for him and his family. He said they gained a whole new respect for northerners and that they’re moving back to the coast to hopefully never see -30° and 18” dumps of snow ever again. 

 

yea its not for everyone, thats for sure. But many do like it, particularly if there are things like small ski clubs, etc. that people can get involved in.

 

[Bob Long]

35 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

 

Personally, I think as society shifts, and the computer age allows us to work remotely, in mass, then the ability to work from "small town" grows. The only problem with that theory is the "NOW" generation, DOES NOT want to work away from Starbucks or Mom and Dad, they want new, and do not want to sacrifice. Hell, they do not even want to work to get ahead. Nor get dirty. Nor work over time.

 

It is a different time, Bob. Society today, wants everything given to them, as it is their right, and blame rest solely on everyone else, and not me!

 

I need to defend the Z's a little here, this doesn't represent the kids I've met and are now meeting online for work. Yea, I'm the ancient dude on zoom now. 

 

I think the Z's would be quite happy to have a little acre somewhere, IF they could easily come into Vancouver on something like a slowish (180-200km/hr) train which is 50 year old train technology compared to Japan e.g. That would open up a huge territory for new developments just in the south coast 200 km from Vancouver. 

 

And before someone screams costs, just look at the price for an average car payment now, its goofy. These kids are priced out of so many things now, I don't blame them at all for not sacrificing their free time for their work. Low pay, benefits are skimpy, no defined pensions anymore, etc etc. They know its not worth it to do more than you're paid for by the hour anymore. 

 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Imagine if we did something like have fast moving trains out to rural areas. You might actually be able to grow small towns in BC.

 

Critical mass, and the cost of building the necessary infrastructure.  Without the base traffic needed to keep the service to at least break even (forget about profits), no government or business will stick their neck out and take that kind of risk at those kinds of $$$.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Critical mass, and the cost of building the necessary infrastructure.  Without the base traffic needed to keep the service to at least break even (forget about profits), no government or business will stick their neck out and take that kind of risk at those kinds of $$$.

 

certainly not the NDP. This is the kind of thinking we need to break in this province. 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

certainly not the NDP. This is the kind of thinking we need to break in this province. 

 

Tell that to BCUP, whose predecessor sold off BC Rail.

[Bob Long]

Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Tell that to BCUP, whose predecessor sold off BC Rail.

 

did BC rail have a high speed rail plan in place?

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

did BC rail have a high speed rail plan in place?

 

Ask your buddies the BC Liberals.  They're the ones who sold off the Crown asset.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Ask your buddies the BC Liberals.  They're the ones who sold off the Crown asset.

 

So show me the NDP plan then. Oh right, its the "we can't" mantra. Sorry but show me where the NDP have ever had a development point of view. 

 

It will take a US group pushing this idea to wake BC up: https://www.cascadiarail.org

 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

So show me the NDP plan then. Oh right, its the "we can't" mantra. Sorry but show me where the NDP have ever had a development point of view. 

 

It will take a US group pushing this idea to wake BC up: https://www.cascadiarail.org

 

 

Your buddies had 16 years in power, and what did they have to show for high-speed rail?  Oh right, they stuck their heads in the ground and sold the fucking rail company because they needed their books to look good.  

 

Cry me a fucking river when the NDP has been in power for 17 straight years and hasn't come up with a plan.  Then we'll talk.

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Tell that to BCUP, whose predecessor sold off BC Rail.

Liberals/socreds-- force B.C. Rail to 'write down' the entire Tumbler Ridge rail expansion, in 1 year, rather than spread out over time.

Then point their fingers at the Rail company, bitching about 'Look they lost money, again".

Then sell it in a deal that had cops, lawyers judges and courts involved because some shady shit went down.

Fuckers.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Your buddies had 16 years in power, and what did they have to show for high-speed rail?  Oh right, they stuck their heads in the ground and sold the fucking rail company because they needed their books to look good.  

 

Cry me a fucking river when the NDP has been in power for 17 straight years and hasn't come up with a plan.  Then we'll talk.

 

My buddies.

 

So 7 years isn't long enough to get things done? That's funny 

[Gurn]

West Coast Express- established in 1995

premier at the time   Mike Harcourt. NDP

 

 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

West Coast Express- established in 1995

premier at the time   Mike Harcourt. NDP

 

 

The same West Coast Express that couldn’t play defence the same way the NDP couldn’t balance a budget? Sorry, couldn’t resist.

[Coconuts]

4 hours ago, JIAHN said:

 

Personally, I think as society shifts, and the computer age allows us to work remotely, in mass, then the ability to work from "small town" grows. The only problem with that theory is the "NOW" generation, DOES NOT want to work away from Starbucks or Mom and Dad, they want new, and do not want to sacrifice. Hell, they do not even want to work to get ahead. Nor get dirty. Nor work over time.

 

It is a different time, Bob. Society today, wants everything given to them, as it is their right, and blame rest solely on everyone else, and not me!

 

That's a shit generalization. I'm a bread and butter millenial, 33 going on 34, we don't expect things to be handed to us, but I'd sure as hell love to have the economic opportunities my parents had. Same goes for my younger twin brothers, who are older zoomers at 25. 

 

Almost every person in my age demographic that I know is working, many of us have gone to school and done exactly what we were told to do growing up. Work hard, get an education, try and save for a home. Most folks my age do not own homes, most folks in Gen Z do not own homes, the only way a lot of us will ever own homes will be the deaths of our parents. And even that could take longer than it did for previous generations, folks are generally living longer than ever. 

 

This is my third time going back to school now to try and get ahead, but prices on pretty much everything have jumped tremendously since I started my diploma back in 2019. I'm in the latter half of a bachelors now and it probably won't even matter, prices going up have likely nullified a good chunk of any wage increases my higher education will now allow me. I've worked a bunch of jobs, I've done casual work, I've done thankless customer service, labor, and retail jobs that folks shit on but still want done, I've done graveyards, I've done shit work in a recycling.

 

I might actually have to soldier on at some point and get a masters so I can buy a home, I shouldn't need a masters to buy a home. A masters would be more than any of my parents of grandparents had, and they were all able to buy homes and raise larger families just fine. But those were different times. It gets even more ridiculous when you consider that Canada's one of the most educated countries in the world per capita. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-educated-countries

 

You say folks don't want to work but what else are they going to do? We live in a capitalist society where we have to work to survive. Lot of folks are just surviving nowadays, it's not that a lot of folks don't want to get ahead, it's that a lot of folks simply can't. 

 

My parents bought their house for 130k in 2003, two houses on the cul de sac I grew up in sold for 700k apiece last year. In 2019 it was assessed at 386k, it sure as hell ain't that anymore. It's not even just BC, prices have risen all over Canada. Education, housing, rent, groceries, we're paying more than our parents ever did at our age. My mom's an early childhood educator, my dad is a horticultural technician, they're both in their early 60's and will probably get to retire at some point. More than likely my brothers and I will never get that opportunity. 

 

I am very, very angry at the state of the world because it is not my generation or Gen Z that set the wheels in motion. We're generally not the ones in positions of power and influence in the business world, we're generally not the ones in government or the ones dictating policy, we're not the ones who've repeatedly tanked the economy. It is older generations who have collectively crafted the world we grew up in, and who continue to mold the world we'll inherit. Now, I'm not pointing fingers are individuals and I'm not going to pretend that there aren't folks who are Gen X or older who don't suffer from the same economic realities because there are, but a lot of younger folks are very, very angry and it's not as if they don't have reason to be. 

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

That's a shit generalization. I'm a bread and butter millenial, 33 going on 34, we don't expect things to be handed to us, but I'd sure as hell love to have the economic opportunities my parents had. Same goes for my younger twin brothers, who are older zoomers at 25. 

 

Almost every person in my age demographic that I know is working, many of us have gone to school and done exactly what we were told to do growing up. Work hard, get an education, try and save for a home. Most folks my age do not own homes, most folks in Gen Z do not own homes, the only way a lot of us will ever own homes will be the deaths of our parents. And even that could take longer than it did for previous generations, folks are generally living longer than ever. 

 

This is my third time going back to school now to try and get ahead, but prices on pretty much everything have jumped tremendously since I started my diploma back in 2019. I'm in the latter half of a bachelors now and it probably won't even matter, prices going up have likely nullified a good chunk of any wage increases my higher education will now allow me. I've worked a bunch of jobs, I've done casual work, I've done thankless customer service, labor, and retail jobs that folks shit on but still want done, I've done graveyards, I've done shit work in a recycling.

 

I might actually have to soldier on at some point and get a masters so I can buy a home, I shouldn't need a masters to buy a home. A masters would be more than any of my parents of grandparents had, and they were all able to buy homes and raise larger families just fine. But those were different times. It gets even more ridiculous when you consider that Canada's one of the most educated countries in the world per capita. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-educated-countries

 

You say folks don't want to work but what else are they going to do? We live in a capitalist society where we have to work to survive. Lot of folks are just surviving nowadays, it's not that a lot of folks don't want to get ahead, it's that a lot of folks simply can't. 

 

My parents bought their house for 130k in 2003, two houses on the cul de sac I grew up in sold for 700k apiece last year. In 2019 it was assessed at 386k, it sure as hell ain't that anymore. It's not even just BC, prices have risen all over Canada. Education, housing, rent, groceries, we're paying more than our parents ever did at our age. My mom's an early childhood educator, my dad is a horticultural technician, they're both in their early 60's and will probably get to retire at some point. More than likely my brothers and I will never get that opportunity. 

 

I am very, very angry at the state of the world because it is not my generation or Gen Z that set the wheels in motion. We're generally not the ones in positions of power and influence in the business world, we're generally not the ones in government or the ones dictating policy, we're not the ones who've repeatedly tanked the economy. It is older generations who have collectively crafted the world we grew up in, and who continue to mold the world we'll inherit. Now, I'm not pointing fingers are individuals and I'm not going to pretend that there aren't folks who are Gen X or older who don't suffer from the same economic realities because there are, but a lot of younger folks are very, very angry and it's not as if they don't have reason to be. 

Yup. Don’t think it’s right younger people trying to buy their first home have to pay such crazy prices. Some might even have mortgages over 200 or 300 k! Don’t know how to fix the problem though. 

Edited March 19 by Alflives

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Don’t think it’s right younger people trying to buy their first home have to pay such crazy prices. Some might even have mortgages over 200 or 300 k! Don’t know how to fix the problem though. 

 

There is no simple fix, there just isn't. 

 

I wish I wasn't so angry and resentful at it all, it's exhausting. And it's not just anger, there's fear there as well. All I've tried to do since I was in my early 20's is work towards trying to scrounge up for a home. I did a certificate, I did a diploma, I'm doing a bachelors. I've scrimped and I've saved and it just doesn't matter because my earning power has stayed relatively the same while things have seemingly gotten further and further out or reach. I'm afraid I'll never get there, and I'm not the only one. 

 

Lot of folks do what folks say we should do and try to move somewhere where things are cheaper. But as more folks do that won't things inevitably cease to be cheaper? Smaller towns also offer fewer job opportunities, not every job can be done remotely or with a laptop. 

 

I don't expect things to be handed to me, I wasn't born wealthy. I've always known that I'd have to work for everything I ever achieve, but it's harder for me to do than it was for my parents. It's more expensive, the requirements to make what's considered "good money" are seemingly higher than ever nowadays. Canada's younger workforce, as well as it's older workforce, is one of the most educated in the world, that raises the bar economically doesn't it? When more folks are highly educated it becomes a standard, but economically it's mattering less and less given that wages haven't risen alongside the cost of living. 

 

A lot of folks I know are similar to me in that their only big long-term goal has been trying to save up and purchase a home of their own, but it feels hopeless and a lot of us are scared that we'll never get there regardless of how hard we work. The economic milestones our parents and grandparents were able to achieve seem to be getting further and further away, and most of the time it doesn't seem like things are getting any better. 

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, Gurn said:

West Coast Express- established in 1995

premier at the time   Mike Harcourt. NDP

 

 

 

so you're saying Harcourt was the last NDP premier with a development vision?