Bag skating and hard practices

[Eddie]

17 hours ago, Blue said:

When literally every skater underperforms, this indicates that the coaching staff and trainers did something wrong. 

 

6 hours of flying, time change, late night and early start. And the flu lingering. And 12 hours before this, you bag skate the team ? Tocchet is ripping the team, but its all on him and the trainers.  There's no way that literally every skater was short on gas for no reason. 

 

Now flame away with your effort cliches. And bag skate them even harder next time. That'll teach 'em.

 

I'd be tempted to agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that every single Canucks east coast road trip from 2011 has turned out the same way ( with maybe the odd exception  that I'm forgetting). Regardless of coaching, rest time, opposition etc. 

This core needs to learn they can't sleep walk through the first 50% of games on every East coast run and expect to make the playoffs 

[Canuck You]

I swear Torts game plan is ; If you don't win, You're all getting bag skated tomorrow...and here's a grand each Refs" !

[RU SERIOUS]

17 hours ago, Blue said:

When literally every skater underperforms, this indicates that the coaching staff and trainers did something wrong. 

 

6 hours of flying, time change, late night and early start. And the flu lingering. And 12 hours before this, you bag skate the team ? Tocchet is ripping the team, but its all on him and the trainers.  There's no way that literally every skater was short on gas for no reason. 

 

Now flame away with your effort cliches. And bag skate them even harder next time. That'll teach 'em.

Thanks for quoting my exact comment from yesterdays PGThread!

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Blue said:

 

You aren't interested in what really caused it Trump. Your solution is to double down on what actually caused it. And the Torterella era proved this. The whole whip em meme got old rather quickly and the wheels fell off and Torts was fired. And a bunch of yahoos quickly changed their avatars 

Lol.  How is Torteralla, an "era"?  To me he's a blink and gone.  Ironically didn't we just lose to him too? Who cares about memes aside from comedic relief.   If Torts gets a reference, then Green deserves four.  Or well 3.5 anyways.    Armchair coaches expected him and WD somehow to take a bad team to the cup or something too.   Maybe, we just aren't good enough. 

[IBatch]

22 minutes ago, Eddie said:

 

I'd be tempted to agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that every single Canucks east coast road trip from 2011 has turned out the same way ( with maybe the odd exception  that I'm forgetting). Regardless of coaching, rest time, opposition etc. 

This core needs to learn they can't sleep walk through the first 50% of games on every East coast run and expect to make the playoffs 

Maybe go back and do the math.   And BTW, it goes the opposite way too.   We are not, and have never been, the most travelled team.   You might be a little surprised to find out who is.   Changes a little year to year.   COL was for a couple years.  SJ was too, during that peak Sedin era. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Why would he say something different in the room ?

 

That would be a great way to lose credibility with his team.

 

Look at Tocc's resume. He knows what it takes to win tough games. 

 

This team has been soft for far too long. 

Since the mid 2000's really.   The only thing we can say about that is so is the rest of the league.   We lost to a tougher team in 2011.   We were the better team, in the regular season.   ANA was the last truly tough team to win a cup.   We are margarine right now compared to the 90's teams.   Butter at least is hard until heated.  Gelinas?   We don't even have a guy who will go to the net like him, and there isn't a huge crazy moffo waiting to smash his teeth in today.   Well Nurse maybe. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by IBatch

[Goose]

28 minutes ago, BPA said:

I would say it was an ill timed practice.  

As @Blue mentioned, there needs to be a recovery period.  Otherwise why not have back to back to back to back games?  Recovery is important.  Especially for a team recovering from the flu.

 

Tocchett has spoken on the record about how important recovery is. He’s a former elite athlete-he 100% understands the concept.  

 

OP is a strawman-it wasnt a bag skate.  They had a hard practice w battle drills then 5 mins of line skating.  That’s not something an elite athlete cant recover from.  

 

But keep erroneously using terms like “reductio” OP lmao. What joke

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, A_G said:

 

Tocchett has spoken on the record about how important recovery is. He’s a former elite athlete-he 100% understands the concept.  

 

OP is a strawman-it wasnt a bag skate.  They had a hard practice w battle drills then 5 mins of line skating.  That’s not something an elite athlete cant recover from.  

 

But keep erroneously using terms like “reductio” OP lmao. What joke

Yep.   It's a joke for sure.   OP probably goes to the gym once or twice a week with his water bottle his cell phone and his "notes" and wonders why he's not making any gains.   The guys who do, are there almost every single day.   And not for an hour.   And also understand "recovery".    

 

We had ripped bouncers come through and cry when they got a blister.    Can't say this enough, do not at all believe this current generation of athletes are in top shape.   Bure and Jagr.   Howe and Hull.   We don't have anyone that looks like them today.   And they weren't that physically special either, aside from the fact they were the best.     Tampa Bays little beach volley ball game was pathetic really.   Todays NHL "athlete" is not the same as the 90's and 2000's IMO.    Can see why Tochett is working on that, sure he does too.   Kesler.  Who's like him?   It's getting better at least, EP is making gains same with Brock.   And sure others are.   Recovery ... we used to call it "overtraining". 

Edited October 18, 2023 by IBatch

[Goose]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   We trained so hard that we overtrained when we were in our early 20's.   And had to reel it back.   This wasn't anything but a flat team losing a game. 

 

They faced a team whose primary non negotiable IS compete at their home opener nonetheless.  VAN wasnt up to the yesterday.  The game was there for them if they handled PHI’s pressure. 

 

But let’s play the blame game rather than be accountable.  OP using terms like “boomer” but they sound like the ignorant, self entitled youth of today. 

[IBatch]

10 minutes ago, A_G said:

 

They faced a team whose primary non negotiable IS compete at their home opener nonetheless.  VAN wasnt up to the yesterday.  The game was there for them if they handled PHI’s pressure. 

 

But let’s play the blame game rather than be accountable.  OP using terms like “boomer” but they sound like the ignorant, self entitled youth of today. 

It rubbed me the wrong way too. 

[RawkDrummer]

i don't know about a bag skate but it was weak ass performance last night.

[EP Phone Home]

16 hours ago, Snoop Hogg said:

Then have them do the grouse grind immediately after.

In this atmospheric river to boot! 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, A_G said:

 

Tocchett has spoken on the record about how important recovery is. He’s a former elite athlete-he 100% understands the concept.  

 

OP is a strawman-it wasnt a bag skate.  They had a hard practice w battle drills then 5 mins of line skating.  That’s not something an elite athlete cant recover from.  

 

But keep erroneously using terms like “reductio” OP lmao. What joke

 

This is what I read about the practice as well.  I haven't seen anything about a 'bag skate'.

[Snoop Hogg]

It was just a stealth practice. Yes, I am making that term up on the spot and forcing it into the lexicon. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

A big issue for many of the coaches the Canucks have had is that their resume's are mostly eastern teams where just about half their schedules could be done with a bus ride.

Does ANYBODY not realize what just being in a plane does? Most of these coaches don't apparently.

 

CHEMISTRY! Something that happens with repetitive familiarity, playing together.

 

IMO, playing by committee can mean a few things and "structure" also carries some thoughts.

 

Structure is something to substitute for chemistry, dumb the game down and try to get all the pieces to play the same. This requires the same kind of physical attributes, skills or thought processes. Unless the parts are put together with this concept there will be a lot of putting square pegs in round holes. Resulting in mistakes as some players alter what they did to get noticed and into the NHL. 

 

Committee to me seems to be make all the players the same or try to, plug and play. This is something accomplished by the old NJD and for a while Tampa. AV did this for a few years until the "room" took over. He dumbed the team down to the lowest common denominator but he also had an old school way of forcing players to follow his way until the "room" said something. When that happened can be seen in the standings and stats.

Is this any different from past years?

This year there are some differences with players but the core is the same with the same issues the last two games as the last 6 years.

 

IT IS TOO EARLY yet to think this year's group will be the same but the last two are not necessarily inspiring.

 

Why didn't they get enough rest? What time did they fly in? How many hours is needed to get rest? I can see it if they practiced just before the game but they have had many more shorter periods between games in short weeks and not had what has happened the last two game.

DeSmith stole the Edmonton game, there is no way giving up 100 shot attempts for that team was something to champion as "something new"

 

IMO I think the group is fragile mentally. After years of developing this losing culture a loud voice isn't going to change the spots on the leopard.

 

 

This .. nuts.   You lost me on coaches and planes.   Maybe they do the trains and automobiles instead.   

[Johnny]

As much as I would agree that a bag skate in those circumstances is ideal, i never saw it was a bag skate. Just emphasis on effort in all aspects of hockey, whether its practice or gameplay

 

Credit also has to be given to the flyers. They played really good disciplined hockey and got lucky with a few calls going in their favour.

[TheGuardian]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

This .. nuts.   You lost me on coaches and planes.   Maybe they do the trains and automobiles instead.   

Probably lost you by using all those big words eh?

Edited October 18, 2023 by TheGuardian

[Blue]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

 

I'd be tempted to agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that every single Canucks east coast road trip from 2011 has turned out the same way ( with maybe the odd exception  that I'm forgetting). Regardless of coaching, rest time, opposition etc. 

This core needs to learn they can't sleep walk through the first 50% of games on every East coast run and expect to make the playoffs 

 

Different players, different regimes, different coaches, different trainers and YET the same thing happens. This quite obviously indicates that it is something about the trip that is causing this. And it has F all to do with players learning how to put in effort lol. How could it not be more obvious ?

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

Probably lost you by using all those big words eh?

Yep!  That was hilarious, I peed a little. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by IBatch

[TheGuardian]

16 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

Different players, different regimes, different coaches, different trainers and YET the same thing happens. This quite obviously indicates that it is something about the trip that is causing this. And it has F all to do with players learning how to put in effort lol. How could it not be more obvious ?

Different complimentary players only, pretty much the same core.

 

Nothing about the trip, just "they are what they are"

 

But it is early yet.

[Ballisticsports]

4 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I just think culture is hard to build and maintain. If it takes a few hard lessons so be it. 

Agree, The players say they want to win, and am sure the ones that have been here long enough, (or on other losing teams) to hate losing now, and should relish the coach and mgmt. team for trying to get them to that point (instead of quitting like losers would )

 

I don't think they quit or were too tired especially after Only their 3rd game of the season with lots of time in between games

They had a bad game, but it's time for players to quit saying they are tired of losing and want to be on a winning team (talk is cheap and easy)

We scored 0 goals it's not the 3rd and 4th lines ( both on offensive or defense) fault we score 0 and lose

 

Our difference makers need to be the difference makers and go out with determination and lead the troops into battle each and every game like great players past and present do

Put your work boots on and earn than huge pay cheque for 10-25 min of work and bring your team, the city and fans a winning working environment, which bring smiles to all involved

[OldFaithfulcap]

I do not like the man named rick

I do not like his tv persona dick

I do not like like him forgetting names

I do not like his north-south games

I do not think we'll win a round

I'll be sad when he makes Pettey leave town.

[Ballisticsports]

52 minutes ago, OldFaithfulcap said:

I do not like the man named rick

I do not like his tv persona dick

I do not like like him forgetting names

I do not like his north-south games

I do not think we'll win a round

I'll be sad when he makes Pettey leave town.

It won't be because of Rick, if we lose or EP leaves

Rick no longer plays the game

 

If the payers play with heart and determination (without injury) I think they have enough to win a round (especially with strong goaltending)

They only have so much room to tweak the line up with bottom 6 complimenting players

If we don't make it, it will most likely because our best players weren't always being our best players

 

I believe we will be improved (and if it turns out a core member is a hinderance rather that a solution , then that will be addressed and changes made)

No one player should be above the good of the team

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

It rubbed me the wrong way too. 

I was rubbed the right way by Boebert.

[Blue]

Sure funny that we have nearly a page worth of posters who think the only determining factor in human athletic endurance is effort. Nothing else. 

 

The Canucks roster all collectively decided to dial their effort back 10% just because.