Bag skating and hard practices

[Gawdzukes]

Trying to out coach and critique the NHL coach 3 games and two practices into the season is moronic. Talk about being a whiner.

 

This thread needed to be made two days ago to have any validity.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, Blue said:

When literally every skater underperforms, this indicates that the coaching staff and trainers did something wrong. 

 

6 hours of flying, time change, late night and early start. And the flu lingering. And 12 hours before this, you bag skate the team ? Tocchet is ripping the team, but its all on him and the trainers.  There's no way that literally every skater was short on gas for no reason. 

 

Now flame away with your effort cliches. And bag skate them even harder next time. That'll teach 'em.

And what sort of "lesson" is this?   Tochett is getting an idea of how they do under those conditions.   Not everyone has a the luxury of a good nights sleep.   It certainly isn't a reason to call in sick (neither is a hangover), you show up and do your best.   Soldiers certainly don't ask for a nap or two, they train and work constantly with less sleep, especially the elite.  

 

Bag skate, who cares.  Keith, Chelios, Roberts, Sedins, Gilmour, Messier, St. Louis and probably hundreds  of other players, could bag skate every day and still show up.   The fitness level isn't there yet IMO, yesterday is proof of that.   Chelios, check out what he used to do after 40 to keep up with guys half his age.    Keith and Gilmour could play overtime until the cows came home.  Why?  Because they put the effort into their body's.  Same with Rod Brindamour.   Gary Roberts, he's made an industry of showing younger athletes/NHL players what it takes.    It's just a bag skate.   Not like they were asked to run a marathon.   Which of course, the above named folks could do and then go play the next day.   Keith,  Roberts and Chelios anyways for sure, the Sedins figured that out too but it took them time. 

 

 Maybe Tochett did this as a litmus test?   There is always another level until you get there.   Which the above guys did.    Can tell you, as someone who's done pretty ridiculous things physically, the body can do this.   Boxers would consider a "bag skate" as a warm up. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by IBatch

[OldFaithfulcap]

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Trying to out coach and critique the NHL coach 3 games and two practices into the season is moronic. Talk about being a whiner.

 

This thread needed to be made two days ago to have any validity.

Yep.   We can whine sure.   But let's take the macro view.   A team that's flatter than an open beer sitting in the sun for a week,  3 games in.   Well it need to be poured out lol.   Let's see how things are by game 10.   And personally have zero issue with Tochett making practices more like actual game experiences.  

 

Aren't these guys supposed to be NHL athletes!   Good grief.   How many hours in the gym, do folks think is reasonable for these guys?   Used to work 60 hours of labour a week, go to the gym and run.   Turned myself into a machine.   And will say, serious boxers could easily do 3 bag skates a day  and spend 6-8 hours training for a 30 minute possible match, pretty much daily.   Regular folks who go to the gym 3 times a week, and wonder why they don't look like that guy who seems to be there every time you go, and is there before and after you ... and don't or barely break a sweat, well your not actually working out, and not talking about warming up either, like sweating a little while doing bike.  the gym these days, compared to the 90's, it's not the same at all.   People walking around with their bottled water and note books.   Barely doing anything.   

 

How can Tochett expect these guys to go on a long run to a cup, if they get bag skated and then the 10-22 minutes or whatever, is too "hard" for them? 

 

Teams (good ones too) have flat games.   Too bad nobody pulled them into the fight.   Demko aside of course. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by IBatch

[Blue]

54 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Yeah damn that coach for using words like accountability and pushing his team to work harder. 
What this team really needs after mailing in an effort like last night is some kid gloves and coddling. 

 

They haven't been coddled or treated like kid gloves at all since Tocchet got here. Yet this still happened. 

 

Amazing how many ppl talk about pro hockey players like they are children. I have to wonder how many of these ppl actually have real jobs themselves. 

 

 

[Blue]

47 minutes ago, IBatch said:

And what sort of "lesson" is this?   Tochett is getting an idea of how they do under those conditions.   Not everyone has a the luxury of a good nights sleep.   It certainly isn't a reason to call in sick (neither is a hangover), you show up and do your best.   Soldiers certainly don't ask for a nap or two, they train and work constantly with less sleep, especially the elite.  

 

Bag skate, who cares.  Keith, Chelios, Roberts, Sedins, Gilmour, Messier, St. Louis and probably hundreds  of other players, could bag skate every day and still show up.   The fitness level isn't there yet IMO, yesterday is proof of that.   Chelios, check out what he used to do after 40 to keep up with guys half his age.    Keith and Gilmour could play overtime until the cows came home.  Why?  Because they put the effort into their body's.  Same with Rod Brindamour.   Gary Roberts, he's made an industry of showing younger athletes/NHL players what it takes.    It's just a bag skate.   Not like they were asked to run a marathon.   Which of course, the above named folks could do and then go play the next day.   Keith,  Roberts and Chelios anyways for sure, the Sedins figured that out too but it took them time. 

 

 Maybe Tochett did this as a litmus test?   There is always another level until you get there.   Which the above guys did.    Can tell you, as someone who's done pretty ridiculous things physically, the body can do this.   Boxers would consider a "bag skate" as a warm up. 

 

Trump level logic here. Looks like they all failed the test equally. Even the players who spent the summer in the gym. So trade everyone. 

 

As I said, go ahead and double down on what didn't work then. Have a bag skate before and after the flight. 

 

 Just bag skate the team daily, and we will win the cup. How has no one thought of this before. It is so easy this way. You don't have to think about anything. 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Blue

[DrJockitch]

@Blue I think your first presumption is wrong, this was a bag skate. 
These are pro athletes who had a good practice that was trying to break the bad habits they showed in the second Edmonton game.  This wasn’t a no pucks bag skate practice. 
The team wasn’t tired yesterday they just didn’t show up and weren’t willing to put in the effort. On top of that Myers and Juulsen combined for just a horrid game. Even Pettey was bad last game and that almost never happens. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by DrJockitch

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

Trump level logic here. Looks like they all failed the test equally. Even the players who spent the summer in the gym. So trade everyone. 

 

As I said, go ahead and double down on what didn't work then. Have a bag skate before and after the flight. 

 

 Just bag skate the team daily, and we will win the cup. How has no one thought of this before. It is so easy this way. You don't have to think about anything. 

 

 

Ha ha. 

 

Next time you go buy your food, thank a GEN x or boomer, the average age of a US/CAN farmer is now 58.    Know younger people don't want to get their hands a little dirty, and are very sensitive,  are relying on older trades people to fix their homes and cars etc, because their is a huge need for that right now.     Nope it's the easy lane, use mommies and daddies hard earned cash, go to school, find a comfy office to spend their 35 hour flex day, sick day cushy life, and then whine and complain and housing costs and how they won't ever own a home.    Like it was somehow easier for the boomers and Gen x.   Cry cry cry, suck mommies boob's dry even if she's 50-75, and expect the world.   Am I doing this right?    It wasn't even a bag skate.   Grow up.   Do something painful.   Climb a mountain.   Try going analog for a month.     

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

@Blue I think your first presumption is wrong, this was a bag skate. 
These are pro athletes who had a good practice that was trying to break the bad habits they showed in the second Edmonton game.  This wasn’t a no pucks bag skate practice. 
The team wasn’t tired yesterday they just didn’t show up and weren’t willing to put in the effort. On top of that Myers and Juulsen combined for just a torrid game. Even Pettey was bad last game and that almost never happens. 

That's a nice way to put it.    And it's only one game.   Funny, both my brother and I predicted this.   Tochett probably did too.   We weren't that good in EDM either.   Shouldn't have won that game, kind of evens out in the end. 

[Rekker]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Ha ha. 

 

Next time you go buy your food, thank a GEN x or boomer, the average age of a US/CAN farmer is now 58.    Know younger people don't want to get their hands a little dirty, and are very sensitive,  are relying on older trades people to fix their homes and cars etc, because their is a huge need for that right now.     Nope it's the easy lane, use mommies and daddies hard earned cash, go to school, find a comfy office to spend their 35 hour flex day, sick day cushy life, and then whine and complain and housing costs and how they won't ever own a home.    Like it was somehow easier for the boomers and Gen x.   Cry cry cry, suck mommies boob's dry even if she's 50-75, and expect the world.   Am I doing this right?    It wasn't even a bag skate.   Grow up.   Do something painful.   Climb a mountain.   Try going analog for a month.     

So very well said, and sadly true Batch.

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

Trump level logic here. Looks like they all failed the test equally. Even the players who spent the summer in the gym. So trade everyone. 

 

As I said, go ahead and double down on what didn't work then. Have a bag skate before and after the flight. 

 

 Just bag skate the team daily, and we will win the cup. How has no one thought of this before. It is so easy this way. You don't have to think about anything. 

 

 

Do bag skates include pucks? Get yourself a good bottle of scotch and enjoy watching the next game from a drunken stupor. Then you will have a good excuse for such posts. 
 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

This core has been through three coaches the last few years. I am sure the core is the problem. They still struggle to work consistently. They have an attitude that there is plenty of time. Laid back. I hate that entitlement that they tend to exhibit. 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

And what sort of "lesson" is this?   Tochett is getting an idea of how they do under those conditions.   Not everyone has a the luxury of a good nights sleep.   It certainly isn't a reason to call in sick (neither is a hangover), you show up and do your best.   Soldiers certainly don't ask for a nap or two, they train and work constantly with less sleep, especially the elite.  

 

Bag skate, who cares.  Keith, Chelios, Roberts, Sedins, Gilmour, Messier, St. Louis and probably hundreds  of other players, could bag skate every day and still show up.   The fitness level isn't there yet IMO, yesterday is proof of that.   Chelios, check out what he used to do after 40 to keep up with guys half his age.    Keith and Gilmour could play overtime until the cows came home.  Why?  Because they put the effort into their body's.  Same with Rod Brindamour.   Gary Roberts, he's made an industry of showing younger athletes/NHL players what it takes.    It's just a bag skate.   Not like they were asked to run a marathon.   Which of course, the above named folks could do and then go play the next day.   Keith,  Roberts and Chelios anyways for sure, the Sedins figured that out too but it took them time. 

 

 Maybe Tochett did this as a litmus test?   There is always another level until you get there.   Which the above guys did.    Can tell you, as someone who's done pretty ridiculous things physically, the body can do this.   Boxers would consider a "bag skate" as a warm up. 

 

Well said. There are a million factors that go into coaching. The notion that a hard skate is going to completely obliterate a hockey team because they are too tired from riding the airplane is utterly ridiculous.

 

For one or several of a myriad of reasons the team didn't have it yesterday. It's on them to figure it out together. If they were tired from the bag skate they had better get fitter. They're not going to get to take any games off in the playoffs.

 

Did any of the players say they couldn't play well because the practices are too hard? If so might as well pack er in now. 

 

One thing fans need to learn is there are many reasons teams come out flat sometimes. It can be over confidence (this case), they can be beat up, they can have family stuff going on, the coaching can miss the mark, they could be tired, they could be counting too much on team mates, they could simply be unlucky, or even unmotivated sometimes. Unlike NFL football with 17 games a season they play 82. It's easy to take a game off as a player and still have a decent chance to win. Too many do that and you have a stinker.

 

Look how bad the Oilers started. I'm sure they weren't too tired for the first game of the season just like we weren't too tired for the third game of the year after a 2 day break. Like give me a break. This is a serious misunderstanding of fitness levels at the pro NHL level, or really any half ass level for that matter.

[Blue]

30 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

. 
The team wasn’t tired yesterday they just didn’t show up and weren’t willing to put in the effort. On top of that Myers and Juulsen combined for just a horrid game. 

 

Just because you say it means that's true ? 

 

Quote

Even Pettey was bad last game and that almost never happens. 

And that must mean because the whip simply  wasn't cracked hard enough. He's not a dedicated or proven professional or anything. 

[Blue]

The Torteralla memes all over again. The new sheriff in town ! No more country club bruh. 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Blue

[Gawdzukes]

57 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   We can whine sure.   But let's take the macro view.   A team that's flatter than an open beer sitting in the sun for a week,  3 games in.   Well it need to be poured out lol.   Let's see how things are by game 10.   And personally have zero issue with Tochett making practices more like actual game experiences.  

 

Aren't these guys supposed to be NHL athletes!   Good grief.   How many hours in the gym, do folks think is reasonable for these guys?   Used to work 60 hours of labour a week, go to the gym and run.   Turned myself into a machine.   And will say, serious boxers could easily do 3 bag skates a day  and spend 6-8 hours training for a 30 minute possible match, pretty much daily.   Regular folks who go to the gym 3 times a week, and wonder why they don't look like that guy who seems to be there every time you go, and is there before and after you ... and don't or barely break a sweat, well your not actually working out, and not talking about warming up either, like sweating a little while doing bike.  the gym these days, compared to the 90's, it's not the same at all.   People walking around with their bottled water and note books.   Barely doing anything.   

 

How can Tochett expect these guys to go on a long run to a cup, if they get bag skated and then the 10-22 minutes or whatever, is too "hard" for them? 

 

Teams (good ones too) have flat games.   Too bad nobody pulled them into the fight.   Demko aside of course. 

 

Lol, love it Ibatch. The beer analagy was gold and the gym insights are priceless. I was working out yesterday and noticed one guy watching a show on his phone. He was sitting at one machine for almost an hour and literally said he forgot where he was. 

 

Indeed this team is cooked if that's too much for them to handle. 

 

Flat game. Figure out what went wrong. Improve and make sure it doesn't happen again like that. 

[Blue]

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Blue

[Blue]

9 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

 

 

Flat game. Figure out what went wrong. Improve and make sure it doesn't happen again like that. 

 

You aren't interested in what really caused it Trump. Your solution is to double down on what actually caused it. And the Torterella era proved this. The whole whip em meme got old rather quickly and the wheels fell off and Torts was fired. And a bunch of yahoos quickly changed their avatars 

[DrJockitch]

21 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

Just because you say it means that's true ? 

 

And that must mean because the whip simply  wasn't cracked hard enough. He's not a dedicated or proven professional or anything. 

Or he had a bad game. He is human though just barely. 
Frustrating trend from this team but not new.  This is more playing to what they have been for years. 
Again everyone assumed the coaching bump would last. 
This thread is pure over-reaction from an abused fan base. 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Yeah damn that coach for using words like accountability and pushing his team to work harder. 
What this team really needs after mailing in an effort like last night is some kid gloves and coddling. 

 

"Bag skate" is part of fan mythos. Like "Forsling" has become.

 

We need to find out who on this team is really willing to put the effort in. 

[Ds4quality]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Ha ha. 

 

Next time you go buy your food, thank a GEN x or boomer, the average age of a US/CAN farmer is now 58.    Know younger people don't want to get their hands a little dirty, and are very sensitive,  are relying on older trades people to fix their homes and cars etc, because their is a huge need for that right now.     Nope it's the easy lane, use mommies and daddies hard earned cash, go to school, find a comfy office to spend their 35 hour flex day, sick day cushy life, and then whine and complain and housing costs and how they won't ever own a home.    Like it was somehow easier for the boomers and Gen x.   Cry cry cry, suck mommies boob's dry even if she's 50-75, and expect the world.   Am I doing this right?    It wasn't even a bag skate.   Grow up.   Do something painful.   Climb a mountain.   Try going analog for a month.     

Probably because they had shitty boomer parents 

[Bounce000]

[Mando27]

Lmao at blaming coaching already, it's a good thing they are having hard practices early on. Canucks struggle with conditioning, nice to see the coaching staff trying to remedy that.

[-dlc-]

14 hours ago, Blue said:

When literally every skater underperforms, this indicates that the coaching staff and trainers did something wrong. 

 

6 hours of flying, time change, late night and early start. And the flu lingering. And 12 hours before this, you bag skate the team ? Tocchet is ripping the team, but its all on him and the trainers.  There's no way that literally every skater was short on gas for no reason. 

 

Now flame away with your effort cliches. And bag skate them even harder next time. That'll teach 'em.

I like Tocchet but, for me, this tough practice is more a thing of his own ego and proving himself (more than what the team needs).

 

Still do think that they needed some tough love, but there's a time/place. A road trip after the flu in between games at the start of the season isn't ideal and while people scream "excuses", you do have to be realistic and consider "why".

 

I think some have a script that they go to when we lose/struggle. We suck, that's the answer. Despite what the team has done...it's all back to square one. There's a happy medium in there someplace....they don't suck but they still have a lot of work to do. It's tough gig and you can get behind quickly. 

 

I try not to get too high or low (I celebrate the wins hard but know that the season is long). I accept the losses as just part of the deal but they looked depleted last night. If conditioning is an issue, you don't get on track in one practice. Rest is as important as anything so bodies can recover.

 

I question the tough practice...bag skates, blocking shots. But I'm not an NHL coach so who am I to say?

[Strawbone]

As my memory serves (it doesn't always serve that well but it's all I got), the Canucks often struggle mightily on the first game of an eastern road trip, and especially when it's an earlier than usual start. I'll wait to see how they perform in the next couple of games before jumping to any conclusions about hard practices being the problem.

 

Having said that, hopefully the historically slow starts on road trips is something that can be fixed long-term by doing something different with their schedule or preparation. Maybe it affects all teams, but I only watch the Canucks so they are the only reference point I have.