Makar becomes fastest defenseman to 250 points

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

I was waiting for someone to mention Hughes tbh. But it's a good question, it probably would be pretty close but I reckon he'd be a bit behind. Makar is as good as Hughes in all the areas Hughes excels in imo, but Hughes doesn't have Makar's shot and that's key. Makar has a superior toolbox. 

 

Hughes is an assist machine, so is Makar, but Makar's offense directly results in more goals than Hughes by virtue of his scoring more goals. Hughes has scored 26 goals in 286 games, Makar has scored 67 in 241 games. Put Hughes on the Avs and I'm not convinced he puts up more assists than Makar, but he likely scores fewer goals.

 

Hughes puts up more assists than Makar but Makar's roughly on par or better imo when you factor in games played. For example Hughes put up 69 assists in 78 games last season, Makar put up 49 in 60 games, give Makar another 18 games and he probably outpaces Hughes imo. Go back to the 21-22 season and Hughes puts up 60 assists in 76 games, Makar put up 58 in 77. Go back to 20-21 and Hughes put up 38 assists in in 56 games, Makar put up 36 in 44 games. 

 

Ultimately I think Hughes would fall short because he scores fewer goals, he doesn't have Makar's shot. Put Makar on the Canucks and we'd likely have been a better team because Makar would have given us a serious threat from the point, which is something we've needed from a D for years imo. 

 

Yes probably, but unlikely Makar would react these numbers so fast had he played on a struggling team.

 

[I.Am.Ironman]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

 

Which is quite remarkable considering, he has been playing on a struggling team... One have to wonder if Maker would have reached the same numbers so fast playing for Canucks...

 

This was my point. Makar walked into prime Mackinnon and Rantanen. That said, I still think Makar is the better player but it makes for an interesting discussion.

[DrJockitch]

Absolutely amazing player with the same problems that Orr had. Playing D at that pace is hard on the body and injuries build up. 

[Rubik]

1 hour ago, Bounce000 said:

Hah Flyers…

 

it's crazy how colorado dropped 3 places from 1st to get him. Imagine if they had won the lottery, they probably would have gone with Patrick or Hischier instead... ofc we also dropped 3 places and got Pettersson. That's why I always say, don't get too worked up about the lottery. Dropping some spots can be a blessing in disguise sometimes.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Rubik

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, spook007 said:

 

Yes probably, but unlikely Makar would react these numbers so fast had he played on a struggling team.

 

 

I'm not so sure, Makar has a better offensive toolbox and has proven to be a better defensive player than Hughes, if he'd stepped into the Canucks as a rookie instead of Hughes I think there's an argument that we could very well have been a better team. 

 

One can point to who Makar has played with, but it's also not a coincidence that Colorado seemed to level up once Makar stepped in. He gave them an engine from the back end that they simply did not have. If you look at 19-20 onward it's quite a jump. 

 

It's a bit of a chicken/egg thing. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Colorado_Avalanche_seasons

 

 

[boziffous]

Makar has also benefited from having Devon Toews as his d partner. It'll be interesting to see the kinds of numbers Quinn can put up this season if he continues to be paired with Hronek at even strength. 

 

Makar is fastest to 250 pts by games played but it would be interesting to see by age the youngest d-man to reach 250 pts. Quinn is almost a full year younger than Makar.

[spook007]

41 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'm not so sure, Makar has a better offensive toolbox and has proven to be a better defensive player than Hughes, if he'd stepped into the Canucks as a rookie instead of Hughes I think there's an argument that we could very well have been a better team. 

 

One can point to who Makar has played with, but it's also not a coincidence that Colorado seemed to level up once Makar stepped in. He gave them an engine from the back end that they simply did not have. If you look at 19-20 onward it's quite a jump. 

 

It's a bit of a chicken/egg thing. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Colorado_Avalanche_seasons

 

 

 

I think the fact that he had McKinnon and Ava core players in their prime to play with has been a massive help.

 

But yes its guess work, who knows

 

 

[Barn Burner]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

 

To be fair, a lot of people had Patrick pegged as the 1st overall and it was the Devils who went slightly off the board to pick Hischier. Probably almost every GM would've picked Patrick at #2.

True, and it happens to the best of us. Way too many examples. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'm not so sure, Makar has a better offensive toolbox and has proven to be a better defensive player than Hughes, if he'd stepped into the Canucks as a rookie instead of Hughes I think there's an argument that we could very well have been a better team. 

 

One can point to who Makar has played with, but it's also not a coincidence that Colorado seemed to level up once Makar stepped in. He gave them an engine from the back end that they simply did not have. If you look at 19-20 onward it's quite a jump. 

 

It's a bit of a chicken/egg thing. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Colorado_Avalanche_seasons

 

 

Actually Hughes outplayed Makar as rookies on the playoffs. Makar only improved when he got Toews for his partner. Quinn lost Tanev (who was his Toews) and suffered with AHL guys until now having Hronek. Hughes will have a better year than Makar and will be better from now going forward. Hughes is just a much smarter pkayer. He is a puck mover. Makar is a puck carrier. 

[Crimson JH]

2 hours ago, Rubik said:

 

it's crazy how colorado dropped 3 places from 1st to get him. Imagine if they had won the lottery, they probably would have gone with Patrick or Hischier instead... ofc we also dropped 3 places and got Pettersson. That's why I always say, don't get too worked up about the lottery. Dropping some spots can be a blessing in disguise sometimes.

Exactly especially the terrible luck we get from Jake Virtanen and Olli Juulevi… 

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Actually Hughes outplayed Makar as rookies on the playoffs. Makar only improved when he got Toews for his partner. Quinn lost Tanev (who was his Toews) and suffered with AHL guys until now having Hronek. Hughes will have a better year than Makar and will be better from now going forward. Hughes is just a much smarter pkayer. He is a puck mover. Makar is a puck carrier. 

 

[Ballisticsports]

10 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Pretty nuts considering who he's ahead of, dude is something else.

 

 

 

But what of the argument people use for  recent forwards not reaching the heights of forwards past?

Regardless, a modern player beat out great players of the past

 

I prefer the comparisons between different decades as to how they dominated against their peers in the same decades

Looks like Makar wins  in this too?

A very good achievement

I can recall years ago hoping the Canucks would trade ? for Makar ( so long ago, i can't recall who it was even)

[Hairy Kneel]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:43 PM, Coconuts said:

 

Orr was a freak of nature, what he did will probably never be rivaled, but while he took longer to get going one has to credit Makar for hitting the ground running. I've never seen a D step in and dominate so consistently in the offensive zone, which isn't to speak negatively of Hughes who is a phenom in his own right. 

Sadly I missed a lot of Bobby growing up in the states. Watching NFL, MLB a little bit of the Kings

[The Duke]

Makar was rumoured to be our guy going into that draft but we obviously landed on our feet with Petey instead. 
 

Would we be better off with Makar?  
 

I’d recon we keep Horvat in that reality… and having Makar and Hughes on the top 2 pairings would be seemingly unstoppable.  Ah well.

[Iron Man]

On 10/18/2023 at 2:14 PM, -AJ- said:

 

To be fair, a lot of people had Patrick pegged as the 1st overall and it was the Devils who went slightly off the board to pick Hischier. Probably almost every GM would've picked Patrick at #2.

 

I read that Flyers scouts wanted Makar but Hextall refused to draft him. Bobby Clarke ripped into him on a podcast about a year or two ago.

[Jess]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:42 PM, Coconuts said:

 

 

That was later, in 2022. He was a rookie in 2020.

[Diamonds]

8 hours ago, -AJ- said:

 

That was later, in 2022. He was a rookie in 2020.

In the 2020 bubble playoffs Makar was a point per game. He had 15 points in 15 games. Hughes had 16 points in 17, so one point better, but I'd call that a wash offensively. Both had incredibly impressive performances. More importantly, I think that dispels the notion that Makar needed Toews. Toews certainly compliments Makar and likely elevated him to another level, but Toews wasn't needed to make Makar an elite player.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

In the 2020 bubble playoffs Makar was a point per game. He had 15 points in 15 games. Hughes had 16 points in 17, so one point better, but I'd call that a wash offensively. Both had incredibly impressive performances. More importantly, I think that dispels the notion that Makar needed Toews. Toews certainly compliments Makar and likely elevated him to another level, but Toews wasn't needed to make Makar an elite player.

Hughes, like Makar, will more productive (5 on 5) with a high end partner. If Benning  doesn’t lose Tanev Hughes puts up bigger numbers. There’s only been one #4.