Ovi watch/prediction thread.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

If it hadnt been for all the lockouts and shortened seasons, Ovie would have beaten the all time goal scoring record 3 seasons ago. Seems like age finally hit him

 

Ovi missed approximately 167 games between the lockout in 2004, the shortened season in 2012 and two COVID years.  So, he would have gotten maybe another 90-100 goals.  So, he would have broken the record around Christmas last year.

 

If Jagr stayed in the NHL he could have also broke the record and scored 900 goals.  Jagr also had a shortened season in 1994, and then went to the KHL for 3 full years before coming back to play in the NHL.

 

Mike Bossy had to retire at age 30.  If not for his back injury he would have easily scored 1000 goals in the NHL.  Bossy was a more prolific scorer than Ovi.  He had 9 straight seasons with 50+ goals and then had to retire after his 10th season.  His GPG was 0.76.  Ovi is at 0.60.  Gretzky was also at 0.60.  Bure was at 0.62.  IMO, Bure got screwed the most.  He had a shortened season in 1994, then tore his ACL in 1995, then tore it again in 1999.  The stupid doctors in Vancouver and Florida both screwed up Bure's knee and so he also had to retire early at age 31.

 

Ovechkin got lucky that he never had a serious injury and played for the same team his whole career.  Jagr bounced around and Bossy had to retire at age 30, Bure at 31.  Even Gretzky had back surgery in 1992 and wasn't really the same afterwards.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

13 hours ago, AatuD2 said:

 

I got no issues with Ovi.  

 

Keyboard warriors want him to denounce Putin and put his family and friends in danger. Keyboard warriors that have nothing on the line. 

 

 

Nope.

 

I don't expect to openly despise him like what Z has done.  But there's a difference between keeping a low profile & Ovi essentially publically fellating him.  But feel free to think what you think.  This isn't Russia.

 

Using a more hockey related example.  Mark Messier.  I loathed that player completely.  But I didn't "boo" him when he wore a Canucks jersey (if he did anything positive on the ice, I wouldn't celebrate it more than a polite clap).  Nor would I ever wear a Canucks jersey with his name & number on it (this is what Ovi, imho, essentially does.  I think he still has Poutines profile pic(s) in his social media accounts.  His cozy relationship with that despot goes back a fairly long time (well before the invasion of Ukraine).

 

Agree to disagree.  Feel free to give me another thinly veiled insult.

Edited December 11, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[AatuD2]

4 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Nope.

 

I don't expect to openly despise him like what Z has done.  But there's a difference between keeping a low profile & Ovi essentially publically fellating him.  But feel free to think what you think.  This isn't Russia.

 

Using a more hockey related example.  Mark Messier.  I loathed that player completely.  But I didn't "boo" him when he wore a Canucks jersey (if he did anything positive on the ice, I wouldn't celebrate it more than a polite clap).  Nor would I ever wear a Canucks jersey with his name & number on it (this is what Ovi, imho, essentially does.  I think he still has Poutines profile pic(s) in his social media accounts.  His cozy relationship with that despot goes back a fairly long time (well before the invasion of Ukraine).

 

Agree to disagree.  Feel free to give me another thinly veiled insult.

 

Nah, you're good. We can agree to disagree. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

Nah, you're good. We can agree to disagree. 

That's cool.   Heh, I've been more often wrong than right on this board.  Canucks are winning & look to be heading in the right direction.  A good time to be a Canucks fan.  Sorry if I threadjacked the thread.

[AnthonyG]

11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Ovi missed approximately 167 games between the lockout in 2004, the shortened season in 2012 and two COVID years.  So, he would have gotten maybe another 90-100 goals.  So, he would have broken the record around Christmas last year.

 

If Jagr stayed in the NHL he could have also broke the record and scored 900 goals.  Jagr also had a shortened season in 1994, and then went to the KHL for 3 full years before coming back to play in the NHL.

 

Mike Bossy had to retire at age 30.  If not for his back injury he would have easily scored 1000 goals in the NHL.  Bossy was a more prolific scorer than Ovi.  He had 9 straight seasons with 50+ goals and then had to retire after his 10th season.  His GPG was 0.76.  Ovi is at 0.60.  Gretzky was also at 0.60.  Bure was at 0.62.  IMO, Bure got screwed the most.  He had a shortened season in 1994, then tore his ACL in 1995, then tore it again in 1999.  The stupid doctors in Vancouver and Florida both screwed up Bure's knee and so he also had to retire early at age 31.

 

Ovechkin got lucky that he never had a serious injury and played for the same team his whole career.  Jagr bounced around and Bossy had to retire at age 30, Bure at 31.  Even Gretzky had back surgery in 1992 and wasn't really the same afterwards.  

sorry yes last year he would have already broken Gretzky’s goal scoring record. Shoulda done my math first.

 

IMO Ovi has been screwed the hardest. Injuries are part of the game. But lock outs? Shortened seasons? Thats called getting screwed. Ovi was healthy, he could have played and produced. 

Bossy may have been prolific during his time, but look at how many other 40-50 goal scorers there were.

 

Ovi is getting 56 in seasons where 40 was the 5th best. Several times he was the only guy cracking 50 goals. 

2009-10 Burrows 35 goals was 10th best and Ovi was one of 3 guys in the 50+club. He is the greatest goalscorer in the history of the game in my opinion. To hit the numbers he has as late as he has into his career is unbelievable.

 

50 is the new 60

 

 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Pretty confident he will break the record, three more seasons under contract including this one needing what ? average of 22 or 23 goals per ?

 

Should be attainable. What some are calling older or slower is actually him just playing a little more well rounded game at the moment. Pair that with a little less fire power to work with and its expected to see his numbers where they are. I fully expect 20 to 30 goals this season at minimum.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Mike Vanderhoek

[AatuD2]

33 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Pretty confident he will break the record, three more seasons under contract including this one needing what ? average of 22 or 23 goals per ?

 

Should be attainable. What some are calling older or slower is actually him just playing a little more well rounded game at the moment. Pair that with a little less fire power to work with and its expected to see his numbers where they are. I fully expect 20 to 30 goals this season at minimum.

 

Don't forget that they're getting Ethan Bear now to bolster their offense haha 

[AatuD2]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

That's cool.   Heh, I've been more often wrong than right on this board.  Canucks are winning & look to be heading in the right direction.  A good time to be a Canucks fan.  Sorry if I threadjacked the thread.

 

Good times indeed! 

 

Washington's situation right now reminds me a lot of ours back in 2013 and later.  

 

We had two legends in the twilight of their career. It was still fun to watch the Sedins but it really felt like time wasted. Washington's only purpose now is to see Ovi succeed on a personal level while they're a middling team. 

 

If I was a Caps fan, I would prefer that they sell everyone except for two linemates for Ovi and then see if they can start tanking early. Having fans tune in for Ovi while the team is losing would be a win win proposition for the owners. 

 

We had Boeser, Bo, and .... Tryamkin to get excited about in the last years of the Sedins. 

[King Heffy]

19 hours ago, AatuD2 said:

 

I got no issues with Ovi.  

 

Keyboard warriors want him to denounce Putin and put his family and friends in danger. Keyboard warriors that have nothing on the line. 

 

 

Most people just want him to stop openly supporting Putin.  No reason to make this orc feel welcome in any civilized country.

[AatuD2]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Most people just want him to stop openly supporting Putin.  No reason to make this orc feel welcome in any civilized country.

 

"Stop openly supporting"? 

 

He has said that he is against the war and that has been the only comment he has made on the subject since the war started. 

 

You are insinuating that he has said something else since 2022 when the invasion started? 

[King Heffy]

51 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

"Stop openly supporting"? 

 

He has said that he is against the war and that has been the only comment he has made on the subject since the war started. 

 

You are insinuating that he has said something else since 2022 when the invasion started? 

He runs PutinTeam and has that subhuman piece of trash as his profile picture on his social media.  This orc aided and abetted Putin throughout his career,  and you think we should give it a pass and pretend he should be treated with any respect?  His open promotion and support of a Nazi regime has consequences.  Let that orc rot in the barbaric hellhole of a country he's from.

Edited December 12, 2023 by King Heffy

[Dumb Nuck]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

He runs PutinTeam and has that subhuman piece of trash as his profile picture on his social media.  This orc aided and abetted Putin throughout his career,  and you think we should give it a pass and pretend he should be treated with any respect?  His open promotion and support of a Nazi regime has consequences.  Let that orc rot in the barbaric hellhole of a country he's from.

Link or it doesn’t exist.

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, Dumb Nuck said:

Link or it doesn’t exist.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alex-ovechkin-putin-1.6726430

[Sophomore Jinx]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alex-ovechkin-putin-1.6726430

I still want him to break the Wayner's record though, coz records are meant to be broken, and I don't think there will be another chance of it after Ovi, for a long time, if ever.

[Dumb Nuck]

24 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alex-ovechkin-putin-1.6726430

I was born in Czechoslovakia and when I was 3 Russia invaded and my parents wishing a better life for me gave up everything, friends, family and a decent fortune to escape to Canada so I can have a better life. I have an extreme loathing for communism and Russian government but quite frankly that article is pure rubbish based on ignorance and hatred.

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Dumb Nuck

[King Heffy]

11 minutes ago, Dumb Nuck said:

I was born in Czechoslovakia and when I was 3 Russia invaded and my parents wishing a better life for me gave up everything, friends, family and a decent fortune to escape to Canada so I can have a better life. I have an extreme loathing for communism and Russian government but quite frankly that article is pure rubbish based on ignorance and hatred.

 

 

 

Which part of it do you think is untrue?  The sooner we stop treating Putin and the vermin who support him the same as actual people, the better.

Edited December 12, 2023 by King Heffy

[Dumb Nuck]

9 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Which part of it do you think is untrue?  The sooner we stop treating Putin and the vermin who support him the same as actual people, the better.

The whole article is just BS IMHO, just trying to create hatred and division as most journalists seem to do nowadays, it’s garbage reporting. There are many many people this world would be better off if they ceased to exist and Putin is definitely near the top of that list but I guarantee you many high up people in US politics are right up there as well, should we ban all American players too? Ovi is the least of our problems.

[4petesake]

On 12/10/2023 at 2:54 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

I'm no mind reader but I think Ovechkin will play as long as they will let him in pursuit of the record.  Chip away like Crash Davis in Bull Durham until he gets there.  You only live once so you might as well be dragged off the ice with a Vaudeville Hook like Paul Coffey.  They would have probably had to do that to me.

 

You reminded of this from r/hockeymemes on Reddit the other day -

 

Hockey fans watching Ovechkin trying to break Gretzky’s goal record 

 

 

[Alflives]

4 hours ago, King Heffy said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alex-ovechkin-putin-1.6726430

OV should be sent packing. Excellent article. 

[IBatch]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:00 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Ovi missed approximately 167 games between the lockout in 2004, the shortened season in 2012 and two COVID years.  So, he would have gotten maybe another 90-100 goals.  So, he would have broken the record around Christmas last year.

 

If Jagr stayed in the NHL he could have also broke the record and scored 900 goals.  Jagr also had a shortened season in 1994, and then went to the KHL for 3 full years before coming back to play in the NHL.

 

Mike Bossy had to retire at age 30.  If not for his back injury he would have easily scored 1000 goals in the NHL.  Bossy was a more prolific scorer than Ovi.  He had 9 straight seasons with 50+ goals and then had to retire after his 10th season.  His GPG was 0.76.  Ovi is at 0.60.  Gretzky was also at 0.60.  Bure was at 0.62.  IMO, Bure got screwed the most.  He had a shortened season in 1994, then tore his ACL in 1995, then tore it again in 1999.  The stupid doctors in Vancouver and Florida both screwed up Bure's knee and so he also had to retire early at age 31.

 

Ovechkin got lucky that he never had a serious injury and played for the same team his whole career.  Jagr bounced around and Bossy had to retire at age 30, Bure at 31.  Even Gretzky had back surgery in 1992 and wasn't really the same afterwards.  

Jagr also missed the entire lockout season.  Then came back, scored 53 goals, barely missing out on the Richard Trophy, and the Art Ross, and the Hart but did win the Pearson.    

 

Jagr is > Ovi in my books anyways.   Missed 1.5 seasons to the lockouts, and 3 seasons post lockout, where things opened up a lot more.    And for sure would have passed Gretzky.   Well maybe not if you include his WHA goals.    But that's 90 for the KHL days, plus 75 for the lockouts.    Somewhere in the mid 900's anyways.   Like Ovi, he has/has the physical tools for the sport, any era.   Including the dead puck era. 

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

sorry yes last year he would have already broken Gretzky’s goal scoring record. Shoulda done my math first.

 

IMO Ovi has been screwed the hardest. Injuries are part of the game. But lock outs? Shortened seasons? Thats called getting screwed. Ovi was healthy, he could have played and produced. 

Bossy may have been prolific during his time, but look at how many other 40-50 goal scorers there were.

 

Ovi is getting 56 in seasons where 40 was the 5th best. Several times he was the only guy cracking 50 goals. 

2009-10 Burrows 35 goals was 10th best and Ovi was one of 3 guys in the 50+club. He is the greatest goalscorer in the history of the game in my opinion. To hit the numbers he has as late as he has into his career is unbelievable.

 

50 is the new 60

 

 

 

There are dozens of players from my generation, who lost 1.5 seasons because of lockouts/walkouts.    A lot of them are in the HHOF, and likely a half dozen at least, that would be if expansion stayed where it was, they didn't litter the league with coaches and players trying desperately to squash pure talent with the trap, and AHL level players  permeating  the league, with the sole purpose of hanging onto guys.   AHL stuff  still exists today, difference is now it's about balancing cap, and don't have to literally fight there way into a lineup.   Europe was scoured and they made it work for awhile anyways.    The average HHOFer had to deal with a lot more in my generation, as far as what used to be a legit hockey play, then Ovi's had to endure.    Steven's would have crushed him, the same way he did Lindros, if he had the chance.  And there were a dozen guys who could crunch guys like him...he's just got the name recognition, so an example.      I don't think he got an unfair shake at all, actually think he's very lucky to play when he did.   No redline, no clutching and grabbing, and didn't have to face the type of D's that existed, aside from the first couple years .. the Darian Hatchers of the league were no longer what teams wanted.   Would have been a much different sort of grind for him.    One that injured players, and shortened careers.    Now he's facing some adversity.    Still should manage it.   

 

Edit:  Also hate to use the age card.  But if you weren't around to watch Gretzky, Bossy, Mario, Hull's, Bure, Jagr pre KHL  etc.   Maybe you should consider that too.   And if Bossy is scoring 70 plus, and then there is a big drop to 50.    Or Gretzky pick a season.   92 - 55 ... ok we don't have to do that.     There are a lot of guys, who would have 50-80 more goals, if they didn't miss those seasons too.   Gretzky maybe 15-20 enough to push him over 900 anyways, and 53 in the WHA would get him to mid 900's as well. 

 

What's the difference?   50-40.  70-50.   There is a difference actually.   Ovi's great.   Agree with  Espo "Wayne's the best, until someone beats his record, he's the best".   Also kind of despise this era adjusted crap.   If you take Orr, Gretzky and Mario out of the equation, the 70's-90's would have lost a lot of production.   Nobody has come close to how many goals Wayne and Mario were in on or scored for their teams.  50% and scoring over 400.  Yikes.   Four times in a row.    Ovi hasn't ever done anything, like that.     Jagr himself, is a great litmus test between era's.   There are others like Iginla, who had it pretty hard too for awhile early on in his 20's against the old guard in his 30's.   Lidstrom is a great example too.   He didn't get better in his 30's, he just got lucky with his peer group aging out.    Not era is the same.    Ovi's era was extremely tame, compared to the 70's mid 2000's.  

Edited December 12, 2023 by IBatch

[AnthonyG]

51 minutes ago, IBatch said:

There are dozens of players from my generation, who lost 1.5 seasons because of lockouts/walkouts.    A lot of them are in the HHOF, and likely a half dozen at least, that would be if expansion stayed where it was, they didn't litter the league with coaches and players trying desperately to squash pure talent with the trap, and AHL level players  permeating  the league, with the sole purpose of hanging onto guys.   AHL stuff  still exists today, difference is now it's about balancing cap, and don't have to literally fight there way into a lineup.   Europe was scoured and they made it work for awhile anyways.    The average HHOFer had to deal with a lot more in my generation, as far as what used to be a legit hockey play, then Ovi's had to endure.    Steven's would have crushed him, the same way he did Lindros, if he had the chance.  And there were a dozen guys who could crunch guys like him...he's just got the name recognition, so an example.      I don't think he got an unfair shake at all, actually think he's very lucky to play when he did.   No redline, no clutching and grabbing, and didn't have to face the type of D's that existed, aside from the first couple years .. the Darian Hatchers of the league were no longer what teams wanted.   Would have been a much different sort of grind for him.    One that injured players, and shortened careers.    Now he's facing some adversity.    Still should manage it.   

Far more pylons back in the day. Nowadays everyone can skate, clutch and grab existed because guys couldnt skate. Difference between Ovi and Lindros is Lindros skated with his head down a ton and banked on his sheer size to overcome anything. Went from being way bigger and stronger than everyone in junior where he developed bad habits and bulldozed his way to the net with his head down, he couldnt cut the bad habits and ended up getting KO’d multiple times.

Ovi is one of the only guys hitting 50 goals in most seasons, sometimes he is the only guy hitting 50. Your era there were many guys hitting 50, some 60 and a few 70. Goalies rebound control was non-existent, goalies equipment was smaller and shittier overall, there were plenty of pylons around the league, no salary cap structure so you could actually stack teams which more talent=more production. To say your era went through more and had no gimme’s is a bit unfair to say Ovi purely benefitted from the changes of the game, his scoring abilities werent dampened by so many other factors is a bit unjust. It goes both ways. Sure guys back in the day had to fight a little harder some times, but other times there were pylons on the ice, stand up goalies etc 

[IBatch]

25 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Far more pylons back in the day. Nowadays everyone can skate, clutch and grab existed because guys couldnt skate. Difference between Ovi and Lindros is Lindros skated with his head down a ton and banked on his sheer size to overcome anything. Went from being way bigger and stronger than everyone in junior where he developed bad habits and bulldozed his way to the net with his head down, he couldnt cut the bad habits and ended up getting KO’d multiple times.

Ovi is one of the only guys hitting 50 goals in most seasons, sometimes he is the only guy hitting 50. Your era there were many guys hitting 50, some 60 and a few 70. Goalies rebound control was non-existent, goalies equipment was smaller and shittier overall, there were plenty of pylons around the league, no salary cap structure so you could actually stack teams which more talent=more production. To say your era went through more and had no gimme’s is a bit unfair to say Ovi purely benefitted from the changes of the game, his scoring abilities werent dampened by so many other factors is a bit unjust. It goes both ways. Sure guys back in the day had to fight a little harder some times, but other times there were pylons on the ice, stand up goalies etc 

That's the narrative I know.  It's a bad narrative.  The year the 17 year vet Gartner set the speed record, anyone who wanted to do that, needed to qualify.   A dozen guys, including Hedican, had a heat at around 13.5.    Yes there were guys like Murzyn, Darian Hatcher and Ludwig.    Removing one play - or a pass, on the way down the other side, changed the game.   But if you think the majority of those players were "slow" your wrong.   I know and worked with a lot of fringe guys, who had serious wheels.   That didn't make the league.  And some of them fought guys like Neely and Clark in the WHL on the way up.    If you weren't there don't buy into that.    Yes there were enforcers and AHL guys who worked their way up through fighting.    Those 4-5 minute guys.   Some were still around until the late 2000's.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Far more pylons back in the day. Nowadays everyone can skate, clutch and grab existed because guys couldnt skate. Difference between Ovi and Lindros is Lindros skated with his head down a ton and banked on his sheer size to overcome anything. Went from being way bigger and stronger than everyone in junior where he developed bad habits and bulldozed his way to the net with his head down, he couldnt cut the bad habits and ended up getting KO’d multiple times.

Ovi is one of the only guys hitting 50 goals in most seasons, sometimes he is the only guy hitting 50. Your era there were many guys hitting 50, some 60 and a few 70. Goalies rebound control was non-existent, goalies equipment was smaller and shittier overall, there were plenty of pylons around the league, no salary cap structure so you could actually stack teams which more talent=more production. To say your era went through more and had no gimme’s is a bit unfair to say Ovi purely benefitted from the changes of the game, his scoring abilities werent dampened by so many other factors is a bit unjust. It goes both ways. Sure guys back in the day had to fight a little harder some times, but other times there were pylons on the ice, stand up goalies etc 

If Gretzky didn’t have to play with a red line he would have easily scored 100 goals and 250 points per season.  Gretzky not having to worry about an offside in the neutral zone?  Those passes to Kurri on the breakaway would have been insane. 
 

Gretzky himself would have controlled the entire play within the neutral zone. It would have been a completely different game for him. Same with Lemieux and Jagr. And Bossy too. 
 

Also, Lindros wasn’t just a bulldozer going head first to the net. He had great hands. Some of his goals were a thing of beauty. Without the concussions he is easily a top 10 player of all time. 

[AnthonyG]

27 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If Gretzky didn’t have to play with a red line he would have easily scored 100 goals and 250 points per season.  Gretzky not having to worry about an offside in the neutral zone?  Those passes to Kurri on the breakaway would have been insane. 
 

Gretzky himself would have controlled the entire play within the neutral zone. It would have been a completely different game for him. Same with Lemieux and Jagr. And Bossy too. 
 

Also, Lindros wasn’t just a bulldozer going head first to the net. He had great hands. Some of his goals were a thing of beauty. Without the concussions he is easily a top 10 player of all time. 

If Gretzky had to play in a salary cap, goalies who are as athletic, acrobatic and fast as they are today with 1000000x better rebound control and actual technique and a fleet of blue liners who can actually skate and play somewhat competently, say goodbye to his numbers. You look purely at the things that would boost his numbers and ignore the very things that helped him achieve such numbers. No doubt Gretkzy would have still been one of the best players ever, but he absolutely would not have had nearly the same numbers.

 

The league is doing everything to create more goal scoring today. I think thats a big enough statement right there as to what Ovi has been achieving in goal starved seasons.

 

1984-85 over half the league scored over 300 goals and well into the 300s. The fewest goals for was 253. Last season that would put the shittiest team in 84-85 ahead of 12 teams in scoring. Dont even try me with the era adjustments, its far too inflated for so many reasons.

 

I fucking hate Sidney Crosby, but I imagine that he is what Gretzky would be today. Still the best, but nowhere near the same numbers. Not even remotely close.

 

lmao diet? Exercise? Conditioning???? The 80’s??? Lmfao non existent.

guys were still smoking and crushing beers and partying 10x harder than todays athletes.

Edited December 12, 2023 by AnthonyG