Blue Jays / MLB Talk

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/mlb/an-already-difficult-off-season-has-become-much-tougher-for-blue-jays/ar-AA1hVVMB?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=da02b12abb9f4ec4ac2d48530c98f703&ei=11

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The 2023 Toronto Blue Jays don’t like to make things easy on themselves, do they? Whether it’s the regular season, playoffs or general manager Ross Atkins’ end-of-season press conference, this team has repeatedly gotten in its own way over the last six-plus months.

And that’s not about to help them proceed through a rather complicated and critical off-season.

First and foremost, one of the most pressing items on the agenda will be Toronto’s upcoming free agents – a group headlined by Matt Chapman, Jordan Hicks, Brandon Belt, Kevin Kiermaier and Hyun Jin Ryu. Plus, management must decide on Whit Merrifield ($18 million mutual option) and Chad Green (three-year club option).

A coaching vacancy must also be addressed this winter, with third-base coach Luis Rivera retiring following 14 seasons with the Blue Jays organization – 13 of which were spent with the big-league staff. Rivera’s departure may not be the only alteration to manager John Schneider’s personnel for 2024, as a wide-sweeping reflection is required after yet another disappointing playoff exit.

Since one of the primary reasons for that was the club’s underperforming offence, which also plagued them throughout the regular season, much of that focus will likely centre around the hitting department, led by Guillermo Martinez. But others like assistant hitting coach Hunter Mense, hitting strategist Dave Hudgens and those in the analytics room should probably be under the microscope, too.

There has to be accountability – an attribute this franchise has preached since Schneider took over as interim manager for Charlie Montoyo in July 2022 – for a supposed potent lineup that endured underwhelming performances from several key contributors, including George Springer, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Alejandro Kirk, Daulton Varsho and Chapman, who was baseball’s top hitter in the opening month before falling dormant the rest of the way.

Along with maximizing that group’s potential more effectively, another off-season priority will include adding more thump to an offence that ranked 13th in SLG (.417), 16th in home runs (188) and 18th in ISO (.161) in the majors this past season.

But that likely won’t be easy to accomplish amidst a weak free-agent class for position players beyond two-way superstar Shohei Ohtani and 2019 NL MVP Cody Bellinger. And it’s not like Toronto’s front office has a surplus of catchers to dangle in trade discussions like they did last winter.

No matter how you slice it, the Blue Jays will have their work cut out for them this off-season. These hurdles, however, seem like a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the floodgates Atkins opened with his deflecting comments over the Canadian Thanksgiving long weekend, which failed to piece together the organization’s fractured culture.

If anything, they made things 100 times worse.

 

Schneider’s decision to pull José Berríos in the fourth inning of Game 2 of the wild-card series against the Minnesota Twins backfired horribly. It wasn’t the sole reason Toronto was swept out of the post-season for the third time in four seasons, but it certainly didn’t help. Nor did it when Atkins came to his own defence, rather than his manager’s, essentially putting his hands up and saying, “I didn’t do it.”

Atkins could’ve attempted to extinguish the fire that has engulfed the club’s coaching staff over the controversial pitching change. But he didn’t. Instead, his transparent responses kept the spotlight firmly on Schneider while dismissing any possibility of management influencing the final decision.

“There was not an influence from the [front] office that factored into that, other than maybe that it was an organizational strategy that had been communicated to players. When I say organizational, I’m including players, many players, over the course of the days prior to that strategy,” Atkins said of whether Berríos’ early hook was impacted by the front office.

The Blue Jays GM reiterated multiple times he wasn’t involved in the pre-game strategy meetings ahead of Game 2. He failed to mention, however, that a front-office member is typically in attendance for those conversations, as Sportsnet Shi Davidi noted. That, of course, could’ve played into the call to bring in Yusei Kikuchi from the ‘pen for the lefty-lefty matchup.

Nevertheless, Atkins shifting the blame away from himself was far more damaging, as he could’ve easily stuck up for his skipper, whom he extended to a three-year contract extension that includes a club option for 2026 almost a year ago.

It wasn’t the explanation this fan base wanted. Nor was it one they deserved. All anyone was hoping for was accountability. Accountability for the costly mistake in an elimination game. Accountability for wasting a talent-riched roster for a third straight season.

Instead, they heard from a frustrated general manager, who passed the buck down the line to his subordinates after a year full of squandered opportunities. All eyes will be squarely focused on Toronto’s next chance to defuse this ugly situation, which will come when team president and CEO Mark Shapiro speaks to the media on Thursday.

But if it ends up being anything like Atkins’ latest debacle, a talented list of impending free agents and a flawed offence will likely be the least of the organization’s concerns this off-season.

[Rubik]

Braves are in trouble lol

[Bounce000]

Crazy ending to the Braces game, and the D backs bats make the Blue Jays look like T ball players.

[Pears]

I'm really hoping Rogers is seeing Moreno and Gurriel helping Arizona be on the brink of the NLCS after we barely squeaked one run in over two wild card games. 

[Bounce000]

Os out, the AL east ended up not evening winning one game lol

 

As sad as the Blue Jays were, they’re not even top 3 as far as disappointing playoff teams, especially if the Dodgers get eliminated tonight 

[RupertKBD]

1 hour ago, Bounce000 said:

Os out, the AL east ended up not evening winning one game lol

 

As sad as the Blue Jays were, they’re not even top 3 as far as disappointing playoff teams, especially if the Dodgers get eliminated tonight 

 

Yeah, I was thinking that as well....as disappointing as the Jays' exit was, they have to really be hurting in Baltimore right now....

 

Although I generally don't cheer for teams that try and buy a championship, I could get behind the Rangers. They've never won and Marcus Semien was a good soldier for the Jays....

 

I don't want to see the Astros win again (for obvious reasons) and I've always disliked the Dodgers and Braves (those clowns still do that stupid Tomahawk Chop) so my ideal scenario would be a Rangers - D-Backs World Series.....

 

Lourdes against Marcus....

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Yeah, I was thinking that as well....as disappointing as the Jays' exit was, they have to really be hurting in Baltimore right now....

 

Although I generally don't cheer for teams that try and buy a championship, I could get behind the Rangers. They've never won and Marcus Semien was a good soldier for the Jays....

 

I don't want to see the Astros win again (for obvious reasons) and I've always disliked the Dodgers and Braves (those clowns still do that stupid Tomahawk Chop) so my ideal scenario would be a Rangers - D-Backs World Series.....

 

Lourdes against Marcus....

I'd like to see Kevin Pillar get a ring.  AA has done a hell of a job after being fired and replaced with the clowns currently running the Jays.

[Rubik]

homerun celebrations are sooo elaborate in MLB, I wonder how much time players spend practicing those lol...

[Bounce000]

3 hours ago, Rubik said:

homerun celebrations are sooo elaborate in MLB, I wonder how much time players spend practicing those lol...

Can’t be longer than when NFL players score touch downs.

[wai_lai416]

nice to see all these ex jays doing well in the playoff and all off to the alcs nlcs moreno gurriel semien and we got nothing but duds for them 

Edited October 12, 2023 by wai_lai416

[Gurn]

Blue Jays- management is a mess

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/mlb/toronto-blue-jays-president-mark-shapiro-tries-to-clarify-decision-to-pull-jose-berrios-but-only-offers-further-window-into-organizational-dysfunction/ar-AA1i7oak?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6e16ba4e91564fbbad29002bd93f1eb7&ei=45

"

Alittle over a week after the Toronto Blue Jays got unceremoniously bounced from the 2023 playoffs at the hands of a two-game sweep by the Minnesota Twins, fans of the team continue to be left with more questions than answers.

And while general manager Ross Atkins tried to clarify what happened last week in his own press conference — especially regarding the confounding decision to pull Jose Berrios from Game Two — he didn’t help.

Atkins effectively threw manager John Schneider under the bus, backed it over him, and sped off by saying it was the skipper and his staff’s call. It’s left nothing short of a sour taste in the mouth of Jays fans, doubly so considering comments from multiple players like Whit Merrifield, who “hated” the call, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., who was “surprised” by the decision, and most importantly, Berrios, who was left scratching his head about it.

The hope among many was when club president Mark Shapiro stepped to the podium Thursday for his post-mortem on the season, he would clarify exactly what happened. Some of that actualized.

“Accountability lies at the top. It lies with me,” Shapiro said, trying to cover up some of Atkins’ comments while saying what the GM should have done a week ago. “We’re not looking to say that John Schneider made a mistake, Ross made a mistake or who made a mistake. We made a mistake. It didn’t work. We need to learn and get better from it, but we need to be OK making mistakes.”

As quickly as he said that, other comments from Shapiro insinuated he was well aware of the plan to remove Berrios in favour of the matchup-driven move to bring in the lefthanded Yusei Kikuchi.

“I knew the game plan, I knew the purpose behind it, I was aware of it,” Shapiro said. “I knew the goal of it was to bring Kikuchi in to turn over the lineup and get some of their left-handed hitters out of the lineup for better matchups later in the game, which actually worked.

“I didn’t know when it would happen, so I found out at the same moment in time when John walked to the mound.”

While he didn’t know exactly when it would happen, Shapiro was evident in that he knew it would happen. That’s different than Atkins saying, “when that decision occurred, I found out about it when you did when Yusei was getting warm in the first inning, it was obviously very clear we had a strategy to potentially deploy,” and that “there was no plan to concretely deploy that.”

Talk about not being able to get your story straight.

The Jays’ plan as a whole is to run this thing back. Ripples through the clubhouse or not, Schneider will be back, Atkins will be back, and Shapiro will be back. Nobody, so it seems, will have to answer in any serious way for a second straight Wild Card exit at the hands of an embarrassing sweep.

After being the best division in baseball this year, the AL East collapsed in the playoffs. The Twins swept the Jays, as the Tampa Bay Rays and Baltimore Orioles were both swept at the hands of the Texas Rangers, who outscored the clubs a staggering 31-12 across five total games.

It’s a silver lining of sorts for the Jays, who don’t have to sit and think about a division rival having any sniff of the AL Championship Series. Yet, it still shows Toronto had an opportunity to separate themselves from the pack, make some noise, and put six rather disappointing years of ball behind them.

 

Alas, here we are. Sitting, waiting, wishing. Maybe next year will be their year.

[King Heffy]

11 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Blue Jays- management is a mess

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/mlb/toronto-blue-jays-president-mark-shapiro-tries-to-clarify-decision-to-pull-jose-berrios-but-only-offers-further-window-into-organizational-dysfunction/ar-AA1i7oak?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6e16ba4e91564fbbad29002bd93f1eb7&ei=45

"

Alittle over a week after the Toronto Blue Jays got unceremoniously bounced from the 2023 playoffs at the hands of a two-game sweep by the Minnesota Twins, fans of the team continue to be left with more questions than answers.

And while general manager Ross Atkins tried to clarify what happened last week in his own press conference — especially regarding the confounding decision to pull Jose Berrios from Game Two — he didn’t help.

Atkins effectively threw manager John Schneider under the bus, backed it over him, and sped off by saying it was the skipper and his staff’s call. It’s left nothing short of a sour taste in the mouth of Jays fans, doubly so considering comments from multiple players like Whit Merrifield, who “hated” the call, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., who was “surprised” by the decision, and most importantly, Berrios, who was left scratching his head about it.

The hope among many was when club president Mark Shapiro stepped to the podium Thursday for his post-mortem on the season, he would clarify exactly what happened. Some of that actualized.

“Accountability lies at the top. It lies with me,” Shapiro said, trying to cover up some of Atkins’ comments while saying what the GM should have done a week ago. “We’re not looking to say that John Schneider made a mistake, Ross made a mistake or who made a mistake. We made a mistake. It didn’t work. We need to learn and get better from it, but we need to be OK making mistakes.”

As quickly as he said that, other comments from Shapiro insinuated he was well aware of the plan to remove Berrios in favour of the matchup-driven move to bring in the lefthanded Yusei Kikuchi.

“I knew the game plan, I knew the purpose behind it, I was aware of it,” Shapiro said. “I knew the goal of it was to bring Kikuchi in to turn over the lineup and get some of their left-handed hitters out of the lineup for better matchups later in the game, which actually worked.

“I didn’t know when it would happen, so I found out at the same moment in time when John walked to the mound.”

While he didn’t know exactly when it would happen, Shapiro was evident in that he knew it would happen. That’s different than Atkins saying, “when that decision occurred, I found out about it when you did when Yusei was getting warm in the first inning, it was obviously very clear we had a strategy to potentially deploy,” and that “there was no plan to concretely deploy that.”

Talk about not being able to get your story straight.

The Jays’ plan as a whole is to run this thing back. Ripples through the clubhouse or not, Schneider will be back, Atkins will be back, and Shapiro will be back. Nobody, so it seems, will have to answer in any serious way for a second straight Wild Card exit at the hands of an embarrassing sweep.

After being the best division in baseball this year, the AL East collapsed in the playoffs. The Twins swept the Jays, as the Tampa Bay Rays and Baltimore Orioles were both swept at the hands of the Texas Rangers, who outscored the clubs a staggering 31-12 across five total games.

It’s a silver lining of sorts for the Jays, who don’t have to sit and think about a division rival having any sniff of the AL Championship Series. Yet, it still shows Toronto had an opportunity to separate themselves from the pack, make some noise, and put six rather disappointing years of ball behind them.

 

Alas, here we are. Sitting, waiting, wishing. Maybe next year will be their year.

I really, really miss the days of Gillick and Beeston.  AA was cut from a similar cloth and got replaced by these incompetent baboons.

[Bounce000]

Hey Os

 

 

[runningback33]

Alex Rodriguez looks like he spent too much time in a tanning booth

[RupertKBD]

3 hours ago, runningback33 said:

Alex Rodriguez looks like he spent too much time in a tanning booth

 

That's probably where the 'roids are kept....

[runningback33]

4-0 Texas over Astros in the Top 1st so far

[runningback33]

Texas takes a 2-0 Series Lead over the Astros after a 5-4 Win

[Bounce000]

Texas now 7-0 in the playoffs, and that’s just with 1 home game.

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/baseball/five-toronto-blue-jays-named-finalists-for-gold-glove-awards/ar-AA1isLhs?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=90a43b63dbae4686aac4ef570efdc7ab&ei=61

NEW YORK — Five members of the Toronto Blue Jays have been named finalists for American League Gold Glove Awards.

Pitcher Jose Berrios, catcher Alejandro Kirk, third baseman Matt Chapman, left-fielder Daulton Varsho and centre-fielder Kevin Kiermaier were among the three finalists at each of their respective positions.

Major League Baseball announced the finalists Wednesday afternoon. Winners will be named on Nov. 5.

Managers and coaches from each team voted from a pool of players in their league, excluding players from their club. The SABR defensive index, which aggregates defensive metrics, is also used to determine the winners.

Berrios was up against Minnesota pitchers Sonny Gray and Pablo Lopez for the honour. The Twins swept the Blue Jays in the AL wild-card series earlier this month.

Kirk, Jonah Heim of the Texas Rangers and Baltimore's Adley Rutschman were finalists at catcher.

Chapman, a three-time Gold Glove Award winner, was up against Houston's Alex Bregman and Cleveland's Jose Ramirez.

Varsho was up against Cleveland's Steven Kwan and Baltimore's Austin Hays. The final three in centre field included Kiermaier, Chicago's Luis Robert Jr., and Seattle's Julio Rodriguez.

Finalists were named for the nine standard positions and the utility position.

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[BestCanuck]

Astros take 3-2 series lead. 
 

 

Phillies up 4-2. 5 walks? 2 runs, 2 outs. Top of 6th. 
 

2 on bases. 

[RupertKBD]

I'm cheering for the D-Backs, but it stings a bit seeing both Gurriel and Moreno with big hits to fuel the comeback....

[Pears]

Seeing what Moreno's doing for Arizona right now should have Atkins fired immediately. 

[nuckin_futz]

9 hours ago, Pears said:

Seeing what Moreno's doing for Arizona right now should have Atkins fired immediately. 

 

 

[Pears]

1 hour ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

 

Swanson is the only good piece to come out of that shitshow. Yeah Varsho's defense is elite but his bat is far too hit and miss. 

[Olli Juolevi]

17 minutes ago, Pears said:

Swanson is the only good piece to come out of that shitshow. Yeah Varsho's defense is elite but his bat is far too hit and miss. 

I don't mind Varsho too much. His defence and baserunning are so good he really only needs to be about an average or slightly below average bat to be a really solid contributor. Putting up 3.9 WAR while having an OPS+ of 80 or whatever he had is pretty impressive. If he can get his OPS+ to the 95-105 range he'd be awesome.

 

What bothers me more is seeing Kirk in the lineup while Moreno's in Arizona. IIRC, the three young outfielders from AZ being discussed were Varsho, Carroll, and McCarthy. It seems pretty clear that we got the worst of their three outfielders and kept the worst of our three catchers in the process. Kirk's great at blocking and receiving but he can't really throw for shit and his greatest asset as a hitter is his ability to put the bat on his shoulder and take walks. Once he draws that walk he plugs up the basepaths though. I'm not sure he's still a Major League player if we were to get robo umps.