Pears Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Mariners losing two series to the 2024 Jays already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningback33 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Good win now currently 8 games out of the wildcard spot and 16 games back in the division Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningback33 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Make that 8.5 back as Red Sox beat nyy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) Nice to take the series from the mariners, but I think if we're being honest, there was nothing that happened during the weekend that suggests we've turned the corner....The Jays will continue to win one, then lose one, etc, etc.... I haven't changed my opinion that the Jays should move on from this group. It was fun for a couple of years, but I don't see this roster as a threat, even if they start to play to their capabilities. Last week, I was watching Blair and Barker (who both share my pessimism, BTW) and they had on a guy named David Samson. Samson was President of the Miami Marlins when they won it all in 2003 and most importantly in the context of this discussion, someone who wasn't afraid to make baseball business decisions and let go of stars, when he felt that their returns on the field were not commensurate with what they were being paid....He made several interesting comments regarding the current jays roster and how he would approach it, were he in Mark Shapiro's chair: Firstly, he would not sign Bo or Vladdy to long-term deals. If a deal could be made for younger players, or bolster the farm system, you go ahead and make it. OTOH, he wasn't even against letting them both play out their current deals. The money you don't pay to re-sign them, can always be used to dip into the Free Agent market. (This likely becomes a must over a complete teardown and rebuild, because the team has just spent a ton of money on renos and you need something to keep the fans invested. Signing a Juan Soto, or something similar, would be required) Another interesting point that Samson made, is that you tend to get better value on certain types of players at the TDL and in the off-season. I general, pitchers generate better return at the Trade Deadline, while position players are better moved in the off season. The Jays have several pitchers who would garner interest at the deadline. Pretty much the entire starting rotation would be sought after. I could see Gausman and Kikuchi (based on being a Lefty) being moved for sure. I think the team would want to hang onto at least one of their starters and IMO, Berrios would be the guy to hang on to. Bassitt could stay or go, depending on what kinds of offers are out there. In the pen, the Jays will be hoping for a return to form for Yimi Garcia. He could command an excellent return, if he could show the same form he has all season, leading up to the TDL. Trevor Richards and Chad Green might also have value to contending teams.... In the off season, I think you listen to offers on everyone, except for the Buffalo Boys and maybe Varsho. (KK is pretty much done and elite outfielders are not that easy to find. Especially Lefty outfielders with occasional power) I doubt you'd find a taker for Springer, although his recent push has me hopeful that someone will do something stupid.... Either way, I'm expecting next season's opening day roster to look a lot different.......at least I hope it does..... Edited July 8 by RupertKBD 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 23 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: Nice to take the series from the mariners, but I think if we're being honest, there was nothing that happened during the weekend that suggests we've turned the corner....The Jays will continue to win one, then lose won, etc, etc.... I haven't changed my opinion that the Jays should move on from this group. It was fun for a couple of years, but I don't see this roster as a threat, even if they start to play to their capabilities. Last week, I was watching Blair and Barker (who both share my pessimism, BTW) and they had on a guy named David Samson. Samson was President of the Miami Marlins when they won it all in 2003 and most importantly in the context of this discussion, someone who wasn't afraid to make baseball business decisions and let go of stars, when he felt that their returns on the field were not commensurate with what they were being paid....He made several interesting comments regarding the current jays roster and how he would approach it, were he in Mark Shapiro's chair: Firstly, he would not sign Bo or Vladdy to long-term deals. If a deal could be made for younger players, or bolster the farm system, you go ahead and make it. OTOH, he wasn't even against letting them both play out their current deals. The money you don't pay to re-sign them, can always be used to dip into the Free Agent market. (This likely becomes a must over a complete teardown and rebuild, because the team has just spent a ton of money on renos and you need something to keep the fans invested. Signing a Juan Soto, or something similar, would be required) Another interesting point that Samson made, is that you tend to get better value on certain types of players at the TDL and in the off-season. I general, pitchers generate better return at the Trade Deadline, while position players are better moved in the off season. The Jays have several pitchers who would garner interest at the deadline. Pretty much the entire starting rotation would be sought after. I could see Gausman and Kikuchi (based on being a Lefty) being moved for sure. I think the team would want to hang onto at least one of their starters and IMO, Berrios would be the guy to hang on to. Bassitt could stay or go, depending on what kinds of offers are out there. In the pen, the Jays will be hoping for a return to form for Yimi Garcia. He could command an excellent return, if he could show the same form he has all season, leading up to the TDL. Trevor Richards and Chad Green might also have value to contending teams.... In the off season, I think you listen to offers on everyone, except for the Buffalo Boys and maybe Varsho. (KK is pretty much done and elite outfielders are not that easy to find. Especially Lefty outfielders with occasional power) I doubt you'd find a taker for Springer, although his recent push has me hopeful that someone will do something stupid.... Either way, I'm expecting next season's opening day roster to look a lot different.......at least I hope it does..... Heard that clip too. Found it really interesting and hard to disagree with. This rebuild needs to start this trade deadline. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 19 hours ago, runningback33 said: Good win now currently 8 games out of the wildcard spot and 16 games back in the division 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks164cup Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Jays started their mini rebuild in 2019, 5 years later and now rumors are full rebuild, after $500M renos.... I just don't see a rebuild as an option in Rogers eyes right now, but at the same time I don't understand what Rogers is doing keeping Shapiro and Atkins as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 20 minutes ago, Canucks164cup said: Jays started their mini rebuild in 2019, 5 years later and now rumors are full rebuild, after $500M renos.... I just don't see a rebuild as an option in Rogers eyes right now, but at the same time I don't understand what Rogers is doing keeping Shapiro and Atkins as well. Yeah, Shapiro and Atkins have to go. What did we get? A couple of wild card series where one, the bullpen predictably imploded and another series where the hitting predictably couldn't hit their way out of a wet paper bag. Now, the homegrown stars are struggling, Vladdy and Bo are clearly not good enough to carry a team, and the system is barren. The two things it did have, Tiedeman is another arm injury away from obscurity while who knows what Martinez will be once he gets back from his 80 game exile (has any prospect recovered from that? Honest question). The only good thing this front office has done is buy a starting rotation with gobs and gobs of money. I don't see any way out of it. For a brief period, the front office could recruit free agents as they were young at exciting. Now, those times appear to have passed. All they'll get in free agency is the left overs that they will have to overpay for. I would like to think fans aren't dumb and will support a rebuild. But the rebuild has to start with a new front office. They have failed, and honestly, is a starter injury away from being a basement dweller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks164cup Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 12 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Yeah, Shapiro and Atkins have to go. What did we get? A couple of wild card series where one, the bullpen predictably imploded and another series where the hitting predictably couldn't hit their way out of a wet paper bag. Now, the homegrown stars are struggling, Vladdy and Bo are clearly not good enough to carry a team, and the system is barren. The two things it did have, Tiedeman is another arm injury away from obscurity while who knows what Martinez will be once he gets back from his 80 game exile (has any prospect recovered from that? Honest question). The only good thing this front office has done is buy a starting rotation with gobs and gobs of money. I don't see any way out of it. For a brief period, the front office could recruit free agents as they were young at exciting. Now, those times appear to have passed. All they'll get in free agency is the left overs that they will have to overpay for. I would like to think fans aren't dumb and will support a rebuild. But the rebuild has to start with a new front office. They have failed, and honestly, is a starter injury away from being a basement dweller. If Rogers does agree to do a rebuild it has to be with a new front office, heck any moves going forward need to be done with a new front office, they can't be trusted at all. I still don't understand how Shatkins was able to sell to Rogers we need defense over offense going forward in the AL East.... Did they really think they would be playing 1 and 2 nothing games against teams like the Yankees, Sox, Orioles, when has the AL East ever been a defensive first division over a power house offensive first division. The people at Rogers who went with this direction with Shatkins clearly have no clue what they're approving imo. I'd definitely be ok with trading Bo, but I do like Vladdy, but I'll agree he's not someone who can carry a team, but he's still a decent player, I'd build around him still going forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningback33 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Whenever they show John Schneider and Pete Walker in the dugout, they don’t appear to look too worried about losing their jobs lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 7 minutes ago, runningback33 said: Whenever they show John Schneider and Pete Walker in the dugout, they don’t appear to look too worried about losing their jobs lol IMO they probably shouldn't be, for now, as I'd really like the front office to go first. Let them keep/let go what they want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks164cup Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 38 minutes ago, runningback33 said: Whenever they show John Schneider and Pete Walker in the dugout, they don’t appear to look too worried about losing their jobs lol Well if you go back to June 2nd and what Atkins said about Schneider then no they won't be worried lol. Edited July 8 by Canucks164cup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningback33 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 16 minutes ago, Canucks164cup said: Well if you go back to June 2nd and what Atkins said about Schneider then no they won't be worried lol. I must be living under a rock lately lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) Edited July 9 by Rip The Mesh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounce000 Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 4 minutes ago, Bounce000 said: Yep losing winnable games, considering this team's payroll it's a freaking travesty how inept they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Always next year. Might I add, ffs. Fire the Manager, then go from there. Damn, I like baseball after hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 8 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said: Always next year. Might I add, ffs. Fire the Manager, then go from there. Damn, I like baseball after hockey. If they don't fire the jays front office soon it's going to set this team back for a decade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 hour ago, Bounce000 said: You mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I find it ironic that Shapiro blasted AA, because he sold the farm for a win now team. Looking at the farm now, it’s even more bare than what it was when AA left. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 On 7/9/2024 at 9:14 PM, Bounce000 said: On 7/9/2024 at 9:20 PM, flat land fish said: Yep losing winnable games, considering this team's payroll it's a freaking travesty how inept they are. I've been as critical of the Jays as the next guy, but in this particular case, I have to cut Schneider some slack.... His top two relievers are on the DL. (top three, if you count Eric Swanson) Chad Green, his de facto closer was unavailable, so he was faced with the necessity of asking Trevor Richards to close. Richards is a middle/long reliever and occasional opener. He's doesn't possess closer stuff and it's a bit unfair to expect him to assume that burden... Even at that, he got witin a strike of pulling it off, only getting beaten on a seeing eye single that was made worse by the 2nd baseman deflecting it into the outfield which allowed the runner from 1st to make it all the way to 3rd. The winning run scored when Richards bounced a changeup in front of the plate. Now, that goes down as a Wild Pitch on the score sheet, but it's Richards' "out" pitch. Jansen has to be ready for him to bounce one and he has to block it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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