Blue Jays / MLB Talk

[Olli Juolevi]

29 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

It was pretty obvious that CB's skillset had become redundant with the likes of IKF, Schneider and now Horowitz all needing somewhere to play. I had already resigned myself to seeing him placed on waivers, so I see it as a positive that they were able to get a player in return....even if he turns out to be a bust.

I think the new baseballs affected his power numbers too. He's an OK fielder at a few non-premium positions, and he draws walks at a good rate but doesn't do much else offensively. Not a waste of a roster spot by any means, but nothing to get too upset about. IKF has been a way better player, Schneider has been better and has more potential upside, and Horowitz probably has more potential upside. 

 

I guess Vogelbach provides more of a LH power bat off the bench

[runningback33]

Blue Jays' Joey Votto 'pretty close' to returning from injury
 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-joey-votto-pretty-close-to-returning-from-injury/

 

In a season that's been short on positive news, the Toronto Blue Jays are close to getting something to celebrate.

On Wednesday, Blue Jays manager John Schneider revealed to reporters that potential future Hall-of-Famer Joey Votto has made "the most progress in quite some time."

 

"He's actually getting pretty close to playing in (minor-league) games," Schneider added.

The Toronto-native signed with the Blue Jays in March to a minor-league deal after spending 17 seasons with the Cincinnati Reds. The 40-year-old joined the Canadian team for spring training in Dunedin, Fla. 

In Votto's first preseason at-bat for the Blue Jays, he homered the very first pitch he saw from Philadelphia Phillies star Zack Wheeler. However, the excitement was short-lived as he stepped on a bat and rolled his right ankle shortly thereafter.

In May, Schneider said that Votto prefers to take things slow to ensure he's putting himself in the best position to succeed. 

"He was pretty adamant about being 100 per cent physically before he really stepped on the gas," Schneider recalled. "So, I think, out of fairness to him, (he expressed) that even when he came in, before he got hurt. It was just like, 'I want to make sure that I'm really ready before I go.'"

 

 

[runningback33]

Saw an interesting stat…when Blue Jays score 3 or more runs they are 32-10…

 

under 3 runs? 1-24..

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[flat land fish]

9 hours ago, runningback33 said:

Saw an interesting stat…when Blue Jays score 3 or more runs they are 32-10…

 

under 3 runs? 1-24..

Unfortunately not a very threatening lineup.  Very little power and just low stress for opposing pitchers.  Bichette will get hot when the games don't matter.

[runningback33]

15 games back of the division leading Yankees who lately are putting up a lot of runs…

[RupertKBD]

2 hours ago, runningback33 said:

15 games back of the division leading Yankees who lately are putting up a lot of runs…

 

Not that I'm defending management or this pop-gun offense, but the division is a lost cause. Even if the Yankees fell apart, the O's are way ahead as well.

 

The Wild Card is what we need to look at and the Jays are actually not that far off.....basically, this shows the massive gap between the good teams and the mediocre teams in MLB this season....

[Northern_Nuck]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:55 AM, runningback33 said:

Saw an interesting stat…when Blue Jays score 3 or more runs they are 32-10…

 

under 3 runs? 1-24..

The problem is that most nights they’re doing stuff like going 2 for 11 with RISP. The pitching has come around and the bullpen has improved as the year goes on. The problem remains the same though, they can’t seem to get clutch hits on a regular basis. 
  The pitching shouldn’t have to get 2 runs against or less to win every night. Vlady and Bichette are not living up to expectations, extremely underwhelming.  I don’t know if it’s mental or an approach thing. Springer has regressed huge too it seems offensively. 
   This lineup to me has huge potential but has failed miserably in living up to it. Yesterday was a prime example, blue jays had a rally in the 9th and were coming on, then Vlady hits a pop fly to Center with the tying run on 3rd to end the game. It’s frustrating to watch because I feel they are much better than how they’re playing. 

[runningback33]

.

Edited June 13 by runningback33

[Rip The Mesh]

Many moons ago;

 

[runningback33]

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/toronto-blue-jays-recall-utilityman-addison-barger-dfa-dan-vogelbach-1.2134563
 

Addison Barger recalled, Daniel Vogelbach DFA’d

[Northern_Nuck]

1 hour ago, runningback33 said:

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/toronto-blue-jays-recall-utilityman-addison-barger-dfa-dan-vogelbach-1.2134563
 

Addison Barger recalled, Daniel Vogelbach DFA’d

Thank God. He was batting .186  and ob of .278…. Not nearly good enough. 

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, runningback33 said:

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/toronto-blue-jays-recall-utilityman-addison-barger-dfa-dan-vogelbach-1.2134563
 

Addison Barger recalled, Daniel Vogelbach DFA’d

 

27 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

Thank God. He was batting .186  and ob of .278…. Not nearly good enough. 

I'd have turfed Vogelbach, before Biggio.

Cavan is 2 years younger, can play in multiple positions and run the bases.

 

[runningback33]

6 minutes ago, Gurn said:

 

I'd have turfed Vogelbach, before Biggio.

Cavan is 2 years younger, can play in multiple positions and run the bases.

 

Yes could have just kept Biggio. I just hope Barger bats better this time up..

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[runningback33]

3-1 loss…super quiet hitters tonight

[Rip The Mesh]

TORONTO — Viewed from afar, the decision seems pretty simple. You have a pure designated hitter — someone who's rarely trusted to run and never trusted to field. Midway through June he has a .578 OPS with just one home run. 

Cutting Daniel Vogelbach, as the Toronto Blue Jays did Friday, seems obvious. Yet internally, it wasn’t quite so simple since Vogelbach can still barrel up a fastball and he was a well-regarded teammate, talking hitting constantly with the likes of Bo Bichette.

“Kind of a crowd favourite in here,” manager John Schneider said from within the Blue Jays clubhouse Friday afternoon. “Professional, understood his skillset and just was really well-liked.”

He wasn’t producing, though, and the Blue Jays wanted more flexibility with their bench, so Vogelbach became the second somewhat prominent position player to be removed from the roster in the last week, joining Cavan Biggio, who was traded to the Dodgers Wednesday.

 

These latest moves are interesting in and of themselves, of course. But they also offer insight into how patient team decision-makers are willing to be with struggling players — an important question in a season where even the best-case scenario likely involves a close finish where a single win or loss makes all the difference.

And unfortunately for the Blue Jays, they’ll face versions of this dilemma again, as Biggio and Vogelbach weren’t the only ones performing well below career norms. As long as George Springer, Justin Turner and Kevin Kiermaier continue struggling at the plate, the question persists: stay the course expecting better results, or respond to what’s happening on the field with further changes?

It’s taken a long time to get here — arguably too long — but we’re now seeing hints that the Blue Jays are willing to dial back playing time on some established names at least a little. How they navigate that question from here will go a long way toward determining their fate.

What’s clearest of all is this: Spencer Horwitz and Addison Barger, the two left-handed hitting rookies called up to replace Biggio and Vogelbach, are joining a team in desperate need of offence. There’s opportunity, too, with Horwitz appearing in each of the last six games and Barger expected to play against lots of right-handed pitching, too.

TORONTO — Viewed from afar, the decision seems pretty simple. You have a pure designated hitter — someone who's rarely trusted to run and never trusted to field. Midway through June he has a .578 OPS with just one home run. 

Cutting Daniel Vogelbach, as the Toronto Blue Jays did Friday, seems obvious. Yet internally, it wasn’t quite so simple since Vogelbach can still barrel up a fastball and he was a well-regarded teammate, talking hitting constantly with the likes of Bo Bichette.

“Kind of a crowd favourite in here,” manager John Schneider said from within the Blue Jays clubhouse Friday afternoon. “Professional, understood his skillset and just was really well-liked.”

He wasn’t producing, though, and the Blue Jays wanted more flexibility with their bench, so Vogelbach became the second somewhat prominent position player to be removed from the roster in the last week, joining Cavan Biggio, who was traded to the Dodgers Wednesday.

At the Letters
Ben Nicholson-Smith is Sportsnet’s baseball editor. Arden Zwelling is a senior writer. Together, they bring you the most in-depth Blue Jays podcast in the league, covering off all the latest news with opinion and analysis, as well as interviews with other insiders and team members.
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These latest moves are interesting in and of themselves, of course. But they also offer insight into how patient team decision-makers are willing to be with struggling players — an important question in a season where even the best-case scenario likely involves a close finish where a single win or loss makes all the difference.

And unfortunately for the Blue Jays, they’ll face versions of this dilemma again, as Biggio and Vogelbach weren’t the only ones performing well below career norms. As long as George Springer, Justin Turner and Kevin Kiermaier continue struggling at the plate, the question persists: stay the course expecting better results, or respond to what’s happening on the field with further changes?

It’s taken a long time to get here — arguably too long — but we’re now seeing hints that the Blue Jays are willing to dial back playing time on some established names at least a little. How they navigate that question from here will go a long way toward determining their fate.

What’s clearest of all is this: Spencer Horwitz and Addison Barger, the two left-handed hitting rookies called up to replace Biggio and Vogelbach, are joining a team in desperate need of offence. There’s opportunity, too, with Horwitz appearing in each of the last six games and Barger expected to play against lots of right-handed pitching, too.   How can Barger bounce back after tough first stint with Blue Jays?

 

“You’re not looking for one guy or two guys to totally change the trajectory of your season,” Schneider said. “If that happens, great, but we need everyone to be who they hopefully are and have everybody do their part.”

Here’s where it gets interesting for the Blue Jays. On days both Horwitz and Barger are in there against righties, the lineup will also include Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette, Daulton Varsho and a catcher. That means three of Springer, Turner, Kiermaier, Davis Schneider and Isiah Kiner-Falefa would start the day on the bench.

“If it means an extra day off for Schneid, for Izzy, for K.K., George, whoever it may be, you do that, as long as everyone else is performing,” Schneider said. “But it's a fine line. You're not trying to force guys in.”

Granted, that’s just one scenario and there’s no guarantee that Horwitz and Barger hit enough to justify regular playing time. It’s a long season with many adjustments made along the way. And ideally, Springer, Turner and Kiermaier would approach their career norms, pushing Horwitz and Barger back down the depth chart.

But already, the Blue Jays have cut into Kiermaier’s playing time, using him late in games as a defensive replacement to take advantage of his still-elite defence, while asking him to bat less frequently. In June, he appeared in ten games while batting a total of 17 times — more of a fourth outfielder role.

The Blue Jays likely wouldn’t do anything quite as drastic with Turner or Springer, who are still considered important parts of the offence. To be fair, Turner has rebounded from an awful May with better results in June. Yet the 39-year-old, who struck out twice Friday and grounded out twice more, isn’t guaranteed full-time DH at-bats either.

Asked before the game about pinch-hitting for the two-time all-star late in games, Schneider acknowledged it’s a possibility. 

Simply put, the Blue Jays are becoming more of a line-change team that swaps players in and out during games depending on matchups and game state the way the Twins and Rays do. It’s a viable strategy, especially with a more flexible roster in place, but no team wants to adopt it for the reason the Blue Jays are: because their established hitters aren’t producing.

 

Most concerning of all is the underperformance by Springer, who entered play Friday ranked sixth-last among all MLB hitters with a 73 wRC+. There are long-term questions here, as this is only year four of a six-year, $150 million deal that’s now trending badly. But even if the focus is on 2024, Springer’s numbers are troubling.

 

Not only are his traditional numbers poor — he's batting .197 with five homers and 14 RBI — his barrel rate, launch angle and max exit velocity are all career lows. This is not the profile of a hitter who seems poised for an offensive breakout. 

For now, Springer will continue playing while the Blue Jays hold onto hope that better results are ahead for the 34-year-old. His off days may gradually become a little more frequent, but he’ll keep starting most days. As the Blue Jays showed earlier in the year when they stuck with him too long as their leadoff hitter, Springer will get plenty of patience.

 

"There's definitely some bad luck involved with George's season,” Schneider said after Friday’s game. “He's missing his pitches. It's not for lack of effort, intent or prep. No one puts more pressure on themselves than George and a few other guys in our lineup … George is a huge part of what we're doing here."

And granted, at this point, it’s not as though the Blue Jays have nine other hitters producing. That means some struggling bats will be in there, hoping to turn it around. The challenge from here will be coaxing what they can out of their veterans and determining how much patience they deserve if more intriguing options do start to emerge.

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/mlb/bichette-out-of-blue-jays-lineup-horwitz-in-leadoff-spot-vs-guardians/ar-BB1ohOwv?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e76d5a3b3db94b95b7e7a65343fddb78&ei=81

"

The Toronto Blue Jays offence will be looking for a better outing against the Cleveland Guardians Saturday, but they’ll have to do it without Bo Bichette and Davis Schneider.

The Blue Jays shortstop will not be in the lineup with Isiah Kiner-Falefa moving taking his spot in the infield. Manager John Schneider told reporters that Bichette is dealing with right calf soreness, and the team will monitor how he feels throughout the day.

Spencer Horwitz will get a chance in the leadoff spot while playing second base, with Schneider getting the day off.

Addison Barger will play in his first game since being recalled from triple-A Buffalo, batting seventh in the lineup and starting at third base.

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game time 12:07 pacific

[Rip The Mesh]

BIG move.

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[Rip The Mesh]

good start!

 

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[Gurn]

^ There they go again, celebrating like they won something more, than 1 game, in a row.

[Rip The Mesh]