[Speculation] Canucks maintaining strong interest in free agent Ethan Bear

[Mando27]

Yea I don't see how bear fits, we need a more permanent D fix not bandaids.

[canuck73_3]

53 minutes ago, Mando27 said:

Yea I don't see how bear fits, we need a more permanent D fix not bandaids.

Above Friedman and Juulsen below everyone else. 

[The Lock]

On 10/22/2023 at 11:41 AM, Gawdzukes said:

I really think our fan base has been accustomed to such poor defensive play they actually think Bear is good. He's not and we should be setting our sights higher for next year if we want to win.

 

I'd actually argue that if we get a better defense overall, I could see him game getting better as well. Skill isn't always just based on individuals. It's a team effort in the end. You see this all the time in the NHL where a player on a bad line plays bad, but then put that same player elsewhere and they thrive. I'm basing things on what I've seen of Bear in the past, not just from on this team, but other teams as well. He was on a stacked Carolina defense before he was here and didn't exactly look out of place there. In fact, he arguably had his career year at that time.

 

You seem ultra-focused on our past performance and seem to want to think the individual players are entirely at fault, which is understandable, but it is a fallacy in the end. I'm not necessarily saying he'd be the best fit here, but as a 5th or 6th defenseman on a better Canucks team, that's pretty good for us at that point.

Edited October 23, 2023 by The Lock

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

 

I'd actually argue that if we get a better defense overall, I could see him game getting better as well. Skill isn't always just based on individuals. It's a team effort in the end. You see this all the time in the NHL where a player on a bad line plays bad, but then put that same player elsewhere and they thrive. I'm basing things on what I've seen of Bear in the past, not just from on this team, but other teams as well. He was on a stacked Carolina defense before he was here and didn't exactly look out of place there. In fact, he arguably had his career year at that time.

 

You seem ultra-focused on our past performance and seem to want to think the individual players are entirely at fault, which is understandable, but it is a fallacy in the end. I'm not necessarily saying he'd be the best fit here, but as a 5th or 6th defenseman on a better Canucks team, that's pretty good for us at that point.

 

I am fairly focused on past performances and you make good points. I am ready to just accept that he'll be signed and then we'll see how he does. I mean if you're not focused on past performance though how else do you measure ... future performance or current, of which there is none?

 

I find his play across the board to be that of a lower type of player in the NHL. Nothing horrific but not something to build a team around either. I think too many people are penciling him in a rock solid option but I feel we should ultimately be setting our sights higher. As long as people understand there is a chance he's not as good as they hope he is. I would hate it if it's all Bear or nothing for this group. Not a bet I'd be comfortable with.

 

I suppose a lot of people are very focused on this year so in that sense Bear makes a lot of sense for them. Due to our cap problems and Myers finally being off the books next year I would prefer our focus be geared towards what we want our team to look like next year and when we're hopefully competing for Cups. I just don't see Bear being a part of that except in a depth role ... so I just hope we don't lose the forest for the trees in that respect.

 

I would also point out in your example of Carolina they healthy scratched him for their entire playoff run in 2022 and 7 games to start the 2022-23 season before trading him to us.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[RWJC]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I am fairly focused on past performances and you make good points. I am ready to just accept that he'll be signed and then we'll see how he does. I mean if you're not focused on past performance though how else do you measure ... future performance or current, of which there is none?

 

I find his play across the board to be that of a lower type of player in the NHL. Nothing horrific but not something to build a team around either. I think too many people are penciling him in a rock solid option but I feel we should ultimately be setting our sights higher. As long as people understand there is a chance he's not as good as they hope he is. I would hate it if it's all Bear or nothing for this group. Not a bet I'd be comfortable with.

 

I suppose a lot of people are very focused on this year so in that sense Bear makes a lot of sense for them. Due to our cap problems and Myers finally being off the books next year I would prefer our focus be geared towards what we want our team to look like next year and when we're hopefully competing for Cups. I just don't see Bear being a part of that except in a depth role ... so I just hope we don't lose the forest for the trees in that respect.

I think (and hope) most just see Bear as a stop gap answer given our cap/asset circumstance. He costs nothing but salary and a contract slot, and he can also be a trade chip if necessary. Free asset that could fill in as part of the committee on D.

We absolutely require better than what he’s provided so far - which can effectively be measured as his ceiling until he exceeds it - but we really are short on NHL caliber Dmen and adding a low cost, disposable contract is probably what’s in store unless we free up cap in trade in the near future. 

[Gawdzukes]

51 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I think (and hope) most just see Bear as a stop gap answer given our cap/asset circumstance. He costs nothing but salary and a contract slot, and he can also be a trade chip if necessary. Free asset that could fill in as part of the committee on D.

We absolutely require better than what he’s provided so far - which can effectively be measured as his ceiling until he exceeds it - but we really are short on NHL caliber Dmen and adding a low cost, disposable contract is probably what’s in store unless we free up cap in trade in the near future. 

 

Yeah I hope so too. I have no problem with this logic at all.

 

My fear is the comments that suggest we sign him for 2 years and then we're stuck with his contract while we should be applying that money to our #2, and #3 RD slots of the future. Why would we hamstring ourselves when we're so close to getting rid of Myers cap? If Bear proves himself a good option moving forward than that's great because it means he earned it, and that's how it should be. I certainly don't think many of the defenceman who played last year sans Hughes should be applauded or significantly rewarded for their efforts. Maybe some folks have trouble accepting that last year was unacceptable in terms of team defensive performance, of which Bear contributed significantly to. Give Bear a one year deal to prove himself and go from there.

 

On top of the pure debate about how talented he is he's also currently injured. I think it would be awful management to just gift a middling player fresh off surgery a two year deal when we're stretched so thin at the margins already. Do people really just suddenly forget how cap strapped we are? It seems like it. I really hope management is on the same page. I guess we'll see.

[Huggy Bear]

18 hours ago, RWJC said:

I think (and hope) most just see Bear as a stop gap answer given our cap/asset circumstance. He costs nothing but salary and a contract slot, and he can also be a trade chip if necessary. Free asset that could fill in as part of the committee on D.

We absolutely require better than what he’s provided so far - which can effectively be measured as his ceiling until he exceeds it - but we really are short on NHL caliber Dmen and adding a low cost, disposable contract is probably what’s in store unless we free up cap in trade in the near future. 

Exactly

 

On 10/23/2023 at 9:43 AM, canuck73_3 said:

Above Friedman and Juulsen below everyone else. 

Yes

 

You guys get it.

[EagleEye]

3 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

Exactly

 

Yes

 

You guys get it.

Yes and a chain is only as strong as the weakest link....

[Huggy Bear]

7 minutes ago, EagleEye said:

Yes and a chain is only as strong as the weakest link....

To some extent, but that can be mitigated with deployment/ice time. See Myers 9 minutes in FLA. 

 

Friedman was very reliable given more minutes, and Bear is better than Friedman. 
 

Bear can help us get into the playoffs this year, and gives us a proven option with Hughes if we want to use Hronek on the second pair. 
 

 

[Huggy Bear]

*What JRPA seem to have planned

 

Step 1: free up $1M cap space and sign Bear
 

Dec - March

 

Hughes - Hronek

Cole - Bear

Soucy - Myers/Friedman

 

Step 2: At the TDL, trade Myers for a late 2nd/3rd

 

March - April

 

Hughes - Hronek

Cole - Bear

Soucy - Friedman/McWard 

 

Step 3: Playoffs/Profit

Edited October 24, 2023 by Huggy Bear
*

[cripplereh]

4 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

 

 

Step 1: free up $1M cap space and sign Bear
 

Dec - March

 

Hughes - Hronek

Cole - Bear

Soucy - Myers/Friedman

 

Step 2: At the TDL, trade Myers for a late 2nd/3rd

 

March - April

 

Hughes - Hronek

Cole - Bear

Soucy - Friedman/McWard 

 

Step 3: Playoffs/Profit

Step one trade Garland for RHD or something to get one.

 

Step two TDL trade

Myers and Beau for what you can get

 

Pick up top 6 forward

 

 

Playoffs equals money

 

 

No Bear!!!!

 

We have been there done that move on be better .

[Huggy Bear]

42 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

Step one trade Garland for RHD or something to get one.

 

Step two TDL trade

Myers and Beau for what you can get

 

Pick up top 6 forward

 

 

Playoffs equals money

 

 

No Bear!!!!

 

We have been there done that move on be better .

If we can do better, then great.  My post was what I think JRPA are planning

 

[GrammaInTheTub]

49 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

Step one trade Garland for RHD or something to get one.

 

Step two TDL trade

Myers and Beau for what you can get

 

Pick up top 6 forward

 

 

Playoffs equals money

 

 

No Bear!!!!

 

We have been there done that move on be better .

These were my exact thoughts. Damn you’re smart and I’ll just assume handsome and funny since I’m riding coattails 

[higgyfan]

 

 

Right now, the Canucks are way too close to the cap and have a full roster, which makes it

impossible to sign another player.  There has to be a trade, or a signed player will have to

be sent to Abby.

 

It's still early days, but if they cannot make a trade, then Bear would be a cheap option

to create more depth on D. I think they should offer Bear a 1yr 'show me' contract. 

If he accepts the term, he would be a useful addition down the stretch and possible

playoffs.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, cripplereh said:

Step one trade Garland for RHD or something to get one.

 

Step two TDL trade

Myers and Beau for what you can get

 

Pick up top 6 forward

 

 

Playoffs equals money

 

 

No Bear!!!!

 

We have been there done that move on be better .

 

Even in this scenario, Bear would still be useful (at the right price) as NHL capable RD depth on the 3rd/spare pair.

[Goal_thecup]

The only thing keeping me from not wanting Bear back is the fact that PA seems to want him and so do several 'respected' (lol) posters around here.

So, I'm back on the Sign Bear train - GO CANUCKS GO!

[NHL97OneTimer]

On 10/20/2023 at 3:36 AM, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

It would be risky for sure but consider the following:

 

1) With the exception of Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko (all three of which whom we should not be trading obviously), Kuzmenko is the only asset on the team that could land us a #2A/#3 calibre defenseman.   

 

2) Is Kuzmenko a good fit for Tocchet's more structured system?  If not, then why not sell high on the guy?

 

3) Given Kuzmenko's age, will he be a good long term core piece for us once his contract expires?  How much money will he command (assuming that he continues to flourish here).  

 

4) To what extent can a franchise center like Pettersson help elevate guys like Boeser, Garland, Mikheyev, Beauvillier, Hoglander, etc. if those guys play with Petey more? (in the absence of Kuzmenko).  Would JT Miller be able to do the same to the aforementioned players (i.e. guys that had been previously playing on the 3rd line now get promoted to play with Miller).   

 

From a farm promotion perspective, what's more likely next year?  Guys like Raty and/or Podkolzin being ready to 'step up' into the line-up, or guys like Willander, and Woo, Juulsen, being able to step into major roles?  

Well that's an out there in left field idea.  Sounds brilliant if Kuz turns into a disaster all of a sudden, but it's a bad shot to the fans and the team at the moment.  Kuz wanted to play in Vancouver.  He chose Vancouver over the other 31 teams.  He shows up grinning ear to ear and entertains the crowd more than most / all other players on the team.  To send a guy like that packing so that you can hopes of having a #2 / #3 D is risky if not simply terrible (sorry).  It also sends a message to NHL players that if they sign in Vancouver as a free agent, they better get a NMC if they want to stay.

 

In 7 months, they will have $6M/yr more in cap space from Myers (and possibly a higher cap ceiling) while having the offensive stars to build around.  Finding a guy like Kuz is not something you take for granted.

[cripplereh]

3 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

If we can do better, then great.  My post was what I think JRPA are planning

 

So is mine to make us a playoff team.

[Elias Pettersson]

At this point Bear is a better option than Myers. I would go after both Peeke and Bear. I’m willing to retain $3 million on Myers. Bring Bear in for $1 million so we’re still up $2 million. 
 

Then trade Garland for Peeke. 
 

Hughes      Hronek

Cole           Peeke

Soucy        Bear 

Brisebois   Friedman 

 

I’m good with that for a playoff run. 

[RWJC]

5 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Well that's an out there in left field idea.  Sounds brilliant if Kuz turns into a disaster all of a sudden, but it's a bad shot to the fans and the team at the moment.  Kuz wanted to play in Vancouver.  He chose Vancouver over the other 31 teams.  He shows up grinning ear to ear and entertains the crowd more than most / all other players on the team.  To send a guy like that packing so that you can hopes of having a #2 / #3 D is risky if not simply terrible (sorry).  It also sends a message to NHL players that if they sign in Vancouver as a free agent, they better get a NMC if they want to stay.

 

In 7 months, they will have $6M/yr more in cap space from Myers (and possibly a higher cap ceiling) while having the offensive stars to build around.  Finding a guy like Kuz is not something you take for granted.

I think EP really enjoys having Kuz as a linemate and his presence rounds out our top 6 quite well. He’s still potentially a bargain at his price point, especially if can produce at a PPG pace. We need explosive offense.

I wouldn’t mess much with the chemistry in the top 6 right now myself, more so shore up D and realign our 3rd and 4th lines with the utmost quality two way and defensive  players we can acquire. Replace Myers, and another NHL level Dman on top of that as depth, and replace or Garland (if need be), upgrade on Beau and Joshua and we are a much improved team. Blueger coming back should help. Hogz making a case to stick on this roster also helps but our 3rd line requires a strong balance of two way play and some size. Size wears down opposition in close quarters and offers a level of intimidation. We may have to look for that in trade but clearing out our “misfits” asap will help us achieve a stronger balance and set us up better for long range goals. The sooner we have a set roster and develop that required chemistry and reliability the better. 

[Hairy Kneel]

As long as they don't sign anyone over 200 lbs I'll be happy. 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

I think EP really enjoys having Kuz as a linemate and his presence rounds out our top 6 quite well. He’s still potentially a bargain at his price point, especially if can produce at a PPG pace. We need explosive offense.

I wouldn’t mess much with the chemistry in the top 6 right now myself, more so shore up D and realign our 3rd and 4th lines with the utmost quality two way and defensive  players we can acquire. Replace Myers, and another NHL level Dman on top of that as depth, and replace or Garland (if need be), upgrade on Beau and Joshua and we are a much improved team. Blueger coming back should help. Hogz making a case to stick on this roster also helps but our 3rd line requires a strong balance of two way play and some size. Size wears down opposition in close quarters and offers a level of intimidation. We may have to look for that in trade but clearing out our “misfits” asap will help us achieve a stronger balance and set us up better for long range goals. The sooner we have a set roster and develop that required chemistry and reliability the better. 

 

Speaking of Blueger, when is that guy coming back to the line up? 

 

[Boudrias]

13 hours ago, higgyfan said:

 

 

Right now, the Canucks are way too close to the cap and have a full roster, which makes it

impossible to sign another player.  There has to be a trade, or a signed player will have to

be sent to Abby.

 

It's still early days, but if they cannot make a trade, then Bear would be a cheap option

to create more depth on D. I think they should offer Bear a 1yr 'show me' contract. 

If he accepts the term, he would be a useful addition down the stretch and possible

playoffs.

I don't mind that idea if there is no d-man in Abby knocking for a opportunity. Right now it appears the Abby side has more to gain by playing there. IMHO Bear is a 3RD so there can be no term over 1 year. Canucks prospect depth suggests serious progress. 

[Rekker]

14 hours ago, higgyfan said:

 

 

Right now, the Canucks are way too close to the cap and have a full roster, which makes it

impossible to sign another player.  There has to be a trade, or a signed player will have to

be sent to Abby.

 

It's still early days, but if they cannot make a trade, then Bear would be a cheap option

to create more depth on D. I think they should offer Bear a 1yr 'show me' contract. 

If he accepts the term, he would be a useful addition down the stretch and possible

playoffs.

I agree with this. Bear is like an insurance policy should they need more right side depth. If they can improve the position without Bear they will probably cut ties with him. I don't mind Bear as a third pairing righty over Myers. Hopefully Myers gone soon or at the deadline. 

[canucks curse]

On 10/23/2023 at 3:46 PM, RWJC said:

I think (and hope) most just see Bear as a stop gap answer given our cap/asset circumstance. He costs nothing but salary and a contract slot, and he can also be a trade chip if necessary. Free asset that could fill in as part of the committee on D.

We absolutely require better than what he’s provided so far - which can effectively be measured as his ceiling until he exceeds it - but we really are short on NHL caliber Dmen and adding a low cost, disposable contract is probably what’s in store unless we free up cap in trade in the near future. 

Agree 

I think PA is hoping a 1 yr contract near prorated minimum to just add another nhl d 4/5 caliber D man on the right side 

Bear took a step forward last year 

he could still grow into a 3/4 imo 

but I have overall higher hopes than relying on him as a 3 D