Messier/Iron Mike??

[Jeremy Hronek]

2 hours ago, KristoffWixenschon said:

Messier and Keenans tenures were documented disasters and some other posters have laid out the main points really well.

 

But I think you're wondering why fans were upset about the decision to bring them in, before all the bad stuff happened?

 

It would be similar to the 2015 Canucks signing Milan Lucic and Claude Julien, then letting Lucic take the captaincy from Henrik. It felt bad, like you sold out the identity of the team. 

Even if it would have been a good hockey move, it felt wrong. It's almost like karmic justice just how poorly that experiment went.

The Vancouver media's obsession with Boston between 2011 and 2017 was really sad and pathetic.  Ditto for the city.

 

The day/week after Boston won the cup, Sportschek at Metrotown were selling Bruins jerseys in the front row.  What kind of city and store openly honors its rivals like that and acts like a cuck bitch?  If the Canucks had won the cup, do you think they'd be selling Canucks jerseys in Boston?  Fucks sake.

 

And then, you had the media.  

 

-"Tryamkin can be our Chara."

-"Kassian can be our Lucic."

-"Brendan Leipsic can be our Brad Marchand."

-"Lets trade for Adam McQuaid and/or Johnny Boychuk."

-"Lets sign Lucic!"

-"The Boston Model."

 

Was a complete joke and the media here (and many fans) should be embarrassed.

 

Between 2011 and 2017, you had 26 teams trying to figure out the "Chicago, LA, and Pittsburgh models," while Vancouver's media had their noses up Boston's sphincter.  

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[gwarrior]

I was 10 when he signed here. When Linden, was traded, I was pissed. When McLean, my hero, was traded, I started to turn on that Prick Messier. I was excited when he signed. But that quickly went sideways. And I was still 10.

[KristoffWixenschon]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

The Vancouver media's obsession with Boston between 2011 and 2016 was really sad and pathetic.  Ditto for the city.

 

The day/week after Boston won the cup, Sportschek at Metrotown were selling Bruins jerseys in the front row.  What kind of city and store openly honors its rivals like that and acts like a cuck bitch?  If the Canucks had won the cup, do you think they'd be selling Canucks jerseys in Boston?  Fucks sake.

 

And then, you had the media.  

 

-"Tryamkin can be our Chara."

-"Kassian can be our Lucic."

-"Brendan Leipsic can be our Brad Marchand."

-"Lets trade for Adam McQuaid and/or Johnny Boychuk."

-"Lets sign Lucic!"

-"The Boston Model."

 

Was a complete joke and the media here (and many fans) should be embarrassed.

 

Between 2011 and 2017, you had 26 teams trying to figure out the "Chicago, LA, and Pittsburgh models," while Vancouver's media had their noses up Boston's sphincter.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah! I think we were all in shock!

It felt impossible for us to lose that year. That 2011 Canucks team seemed to have the ability to score at will. 

 

I think most fans had already concluded we were taking home the cup. Playing Boston was just a formality. 

 

We got a little obsessed afterwards. They took away a trophy that we "knew" was ours that year.

I don't know if there were any truths to Vancouver having interest in signing Lucic, but... can you imagine?!

 

I'm glad that we've left that era behind. We can focus on building a new identity.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

In theory it was a good idea.  In practice Messier was a locker room cancer and was the laziest piece of trash to ever wear a Canucks jersey.  He then insisted on having Keenan hired who further destroyed the team by trading any player who actually cared.  Both were complete disgraces to the sport on and off the ice, both here and everywhere else they went.

He really treated Gelinas like garbage.  To this day I can never understand how Gelinas would ever sign a contract knowing that Keenan was "in charge" (when Gelinas signed in Florida).  Chews out Trevor Linden in front of the team for no reason.  Then there was how he treated Grant Ledyard.  Tons more stories like that involving Keenan.  A dark chapter in Canucks history indeed.

[Jeremy Hronek]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Do you think his conduct here was acceptable?  Yes or no?  There is literally no reason for anyone to respect that scumbag as a player or as a man.

 

No, there were lots of things that Messier did that was not acceptable here.  

 

For example, even though Tom Renney was a bush league coach, Messier should have still had enough respect for him to the point where Messier should not have just jumped on the ice when it was not his shift.  Messier should have conducted himself better while he was here.

 

Now having said all that, I don't think Messier should have been brought here in the first place.  Too much baggage with core players from the 1994 finals + the Canucks were nowhere near being "a Messier away" from being elite.  The team needed to be gutted.  McCaw gave Messier powers and enticements that no player should ever be offered.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Jeremy Hronek]

48 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

He really treated Gelinas like garbage.  To this day I can never understand how Gelinas would ever sign a contract knowing that Keenan was "in charge" (when Gelinas signed in Florida).  Chews out Trevor Linden in front of the team for no reason.  Then there was how he treated Grant Ledyard.  Tons more stories like that involving Keenan.  A dark chapter in Canucks history indeed.

 

Gelinas was injured for almost the entire time Keenan was here.  How do you know he treated Gelinas like garbage?  Does the fact that Gelinas signed in Florida, with Keenan being there, negate your story?   

 

Linden deserved to be chewed out because he was playing like crap (compared to his early-mid 90's form), but Keenan did go way too far here........and Keenan should have also called out Messier since Messier was not playing like his peak self (although in this case, Keenan had to be careful with how he treated Messier due to the power that Messier had........given the agreement that Messier had with our ownership at the time.  Keenan's double standard treatment was in many respects, John McCaw's fault).   

 

Yes, the treatment of Grant Ledyard and Peter Zezel by Mike Keenan was downright disgusting.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

16 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Gelinas was injured for almost the entire time Keenan was here.

He played 24 games for the Canucks when Keenan was in control.  He dealt him to Carolina during that season (he ended up playing 40 games for Carolina).  So Gelinas' injuries amounted to around 18 or so games missed that season.   24/42 > 55% which I am the opinion isn't 'almost the entire time'.  I already stated I don't know why he signed in Florida.  I'm just going by my recollections on how he treated Gelinas (remember, this was over 20 years ago).  Never said my memory is infallible.

Edited October 21, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Cerridwen]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

The only time I want to see Messier's name is in an obituary.

 

I'm afraid, for all the good Karma points and everything good I've racked up and how gently I tend to live my life in society, the ONE thing that is guaranteed to make me instantly rage is even the mention of Messier and Keenan. What those two did to this team was unconscionable...disgusting... and as someone else mentioned, we fans had to sit and watch the very heart get ripped out of this team. Every time we thought it couldn't possibly get any worse, it did. Messier could barely rouse his lazy ass to play...Keenan was a little dictator who was far too cozy with Messier.... and for those who say we did kind of get a bonus out of trading Linden after Messier stole the Captaincy from him..... I really don't give a shit.... you had to be there during those times for it to truly hit home as hard as it did for us diehard fans at the time. I still cannot, to this day, see or listen to Messier wherever he may pop up and thank god, Keenan is somewhere I don't have to accidentally see or hear him.

Yep... I'm with you, King Heffy the only time I want to see or hear Messier's name again is in regard to his obituary. You younger fans who weren't here for those dark times in the history of our team and think some of us are overreacting with hyperbole, really have NO idea what it was like for those of us who bled Canucks blue and green, black and orange...etc. during those years.

[Elias Pettersson]

The Canucks were after Gretzky first, and when that deal fell through, they went to plan b and went after Messier the following year.  The idea was sound, bring in a 6 time Stanley Cup champion who could take the 1994 core and bring them back to the finals again.

 

Problem is Linden was already past his prime, Mogilny was floating around and not putting in the effort, and Bure basically wanted out by that time.  McLean was also past his prime.  So the timing was off.  Quinn was desperate for the team to turn around so he went back to coaching, but it didn't work out.  The 1994 team was past it's peak and needed to be changed up.

 

I watched it all unfold in real time.  I don't believe the story that Messier ripped the C from Linden.  I think Linden was a bit pressured to give it to him, but I think he did it willingly.  It was the media that spun the story around.  As for the #11, not sure if Messier knew about the Wayne Maki story, but the number wasn't technically retired and the team approved it, so Messier took the number.  If it was really a big deal, then Quinn should have spoken out, but he didn't.  Quinn apparently called the family after the fact and they were upset.  But honestly, if the Canucks wanted that number out of circulation, they should have either retired it or just taken the number out of their jersey cycle.  It's not like Wayne Maki was some hero or anything.  He literally almost killed another player on the ice.  And he barely played with the Canucks.

 

Messier came in and basically floated around for 3 years.  He was definitely past his prime.  So the experiment failed.  Just like when we brought in Mats Sundin.  For all of the turmoil of the Messier/Keenan era, the bright spot was that Keenan ripped the team apart and actually made some good trades.  Of course, the best one was trading Linden for Bertuzzi and McCabe.  That turned the team around once Messier left and once Naslund became a star.  I think Messier actually had a positive effect on Naslund.  He came into his own afterwards and became a superstar.  

 

At the end of the day, it was a dark time in our history.  However, our team was already going downhill prior to Messier arriving.  Bure wanted out and Linden was already past his prime at 26 years old.  His body was worn out trying to be an iron man and from that playoff run.  I think Messier and Keenan made things worse.  But in the end with some smart trades we ended up being a great team again with the Westcoast Express.  If we had Luongo or McLean during that time we would have won the cup...

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Canucks were after Gretzky first, and when that deal fell through, they went to plan b and went after Messier the following year.  The idea was sound, bring in a 6 time Stanley Cup champion who could take the 1994 core and bring them back to the finals again.

 

Problem is Linden was already past his prime, Mogilny was floating around and not putting in the effort, and Bure basically wanted out by that time.  McLean was also past his prime.  So the timing was off.  Quinn was desperate for the team to turn around so he went back to coaching, but it didn't work out.  The 1994 team was past it's peak and needed to be changed up.

 

I watched it all unfold in real time.  I don't believe the story that Messier ripped the C from Linden.  I think Linden was a bit pressured to give it to him, but I think he did it willingly.  It was the media that spun the story around.  As for the #11, not sure if Messier knew about the Wayne Maki story, but the number wasn't technically retired and the team approved it, so Messier took the number.  If it was really a big deal, then Quinn should have spoken out, but he didn't.  Quinn apparently called the family after the fact and they were upset.  But honestly, if the Canucks wanted that number out of circulation, they should have either retired it or just taken the number out of their jersey cycle.  It's not like Wayne Maki was some hero or anything.  He literally almost killed another player on the ice.  And he barely played with the Canucks.

 

Messier came in and basically floated around for 3 years.  He was definitely past his prime.  So the experiment failed.  Just like when we brought in Mats Sundin.  For all of the turmoil of the Messier/Keenan era, the bright spot was that Keenan ripped the team apart and actually made some good trades.  Of course, the best one was trading Linden for Bertuzzi and McCabe.  That turned the team around once Messier left and once Naslund became a star.  I think Messier actually had a positive effect on Naslund.  He came into his own afterwards and became a superstar.  

 

At the end of the day, it was a dark time in our history.  However, our team was already going downhill prior to Messier arriving.  Bure wanted out and Linden was already past his prime at 26 years old.  His body was worn out trying to be an iron man and from that playoff run.  I think Messier and Keenan made things worse.  But in the end with some smart trades we ended up being a great team again with the Westcoast Express.  If we had Luongo or McLean during that time we would have won the cup...

Looked to me he was finally in shape that second round in the playoffs (8 points in 8 games that entire post-season).  Granted we got lucky Sundin didn't exercise that 2nd year option (at least I think it was his option?  too lazy to look it up).

Edited October 21, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Looked to me he was finally in shape that second round in the playoffs (8 points in 8 games).  Granted we got lucky Sundin didn't exercise that 2nd year option (at least I think it was his option?  too lazy to look it up).

 

I forget, but i think it was an option for $10 million and Sundin was the one that walked away...

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I forget, but i think it was an option for $10 million and Sundin was the one that walked away...

Thanks.  That's what I thought.

 

And Sundin did at least give us this great moment:

 

 

Granted, that wasn't exactly worth 10 million (but it's Frank's money )

 

Hard watching Demitra....hard to believe its been over a decade when he died in that plane crash along with everyone else on that plane .

Edited October 21, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[-AJ-]

He and Keenan were co-tyrants in the locker room. Keenan treated players like garbage and instead of defending his teammates, our "captain" just backed an abusive coach. On top of that, he had the gall to accept the C from Linden (Linden offered it, but a true leader would be humble enough to understand not to overstep his bounds and lay claim to leadership). He also took Wayne Maki's #11 without even talking to the Maki family--of note, no one wore the number after Maki passed away.

 

And that was before he even hit the ice. Once he hit the ice, he was a good player, but in no way was the guy from New York or Edmonton the years prior. He coasted way too much and seemed satisfied to get 50-60 points while giving a C+ effort. The physicality was gone.

 

To top it all off, this comes from a guy who just three or four years earlier was a dirtbag who thought it was okay to injure our heart and soul captain, Trevor Linden away from the play in the 1994 playoffs at the end of a game that was already effectively over. 

 

Many fan favourites of the Canucks, including Quinn, left shortly after these two tyrants joined.

 

It's criminal that this egomaniac has a leadership award named after him.

[Miss Korea]

5 hours ago, BestCanuck said:

As millennial, everything happens for reason. At the moment I don’t think they expected that back lash. 94’ still stung though. 
 

WCE era wouldn’t have happened.

Probably wouldn’t have drafted Sedins.
No Bertuzzi for Luongo. 
 

 

Dark times but kinda made up for it. Linden came home in the end. 

 

4 hours ago, Dankmemes187 said:

Back in those days, most Canucks fans, including myself, were up in arms about Mark Messier joining our team even before he set foot on the ice. The wounds of Lindens broken ribs was still fresh, and to make matters worse, Messier was given the number 11 jersey, a number that had always been unofficially retired out of respect for Wayne Maki. It felt like a slap in the face to our beloved Canucks history and our Captain

 

The Messier Signing is one that, let's put it kindly, didn't turn out the way anyone hoped. In fact, it's widely regarded as one of the worst decisions in Canucks history. Messier's performance left much to be desired,He mailed it in.  Tt was clear that Messier and Iron Mike wasn't winning any popularity contests among fans, myself included. I was only 15 at the time, and while I couldn't catch every game due to limited broadcasts, I devoured every bit of Canucks news I could find in the Province and the Sun, and all the latenight sports highlights, especially the spicy stuff.

 

The media, much like the fans, weren't holding back either. Even nearly two decades after Messier's departure, they were still airing their grievances. I vividly remember how much the Messier era irked me and many others. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/mark-messier-canucks-contract-1997

 

What's intriguing is that despite the mess Messier left behind, the Linden trade did lead to some unexpected silver linings. We acquired players like Todd Bertuzzi, Ruttu, And McCabe which led to drafting the Sedins, who would later become the backbone of our team's success for a solid decade. There was also the Petr Nedved trade, which brought Markus Naslund into the mix.

 

F Messier

 

That Linden trade was one of the most lopsided trades of all time in favour for Vancouver, and a trade tree that lasted almost three decades.  For someone who did not live through the public animosity brewing between the new coach and the ex-captain, this trade was an absolute win for us.

[Curmudgeon]

Coles Notes Version of Keenan/Messier regime.

 

Keenan was a megalomaniac drunk with power and armed with a very sadistic attitude with streaks of routine cruelty. He traded guys just because he could and often did. Overall, just a hateful human being. A practitioner of the concept "if it isn't broken, break it". 

 

Messier was maybe the most arrogant player in Canucks history. Everything was about him and he worked fist in glove with Keenan. His best days were far behind him when he signed for $18M over three years. He had to sue to collect about $6M of it. 

 

I have mentioned this before, but those three years of Messier and some with Keenan made me not really care what happened to the Canucks. I don't even remember who else was playing for the team at the time. I only remember that when Brian Burke took over, it was like the clouds had parted and the sun came out. Then he brought Trevor Linden home and drafted both Sedins and I was back full force.

 

Trivial Fun Fact: It was Mike Keenan, who was Florida's GM at the time, who traded Roberto Luongo to Vancouver in one of his final acts before losing a power struggle to coach Jacques Martin and subsequently resigning. 

[Crabcakes]

5 hours ago, BestCanuck said:

As millennial, everything happens for reason. At the moment I don’t think they expected that back lash. 94’ still stung though. 
 

WCE era wouldn’t have happened.

Probably wouldn’t have drafted Sedins.
No Bertuzzi for Luongo. 
 

 

Dark times but kinda made up for it. Linden came home in the end. 

Linden wasn't the same when he came back.   But that was the least of it

[Crabcakes]

41 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Coles Notes Version of Keenan/Messier regime.

 

Keenan was a megalomaniac drunk with power and armed with a very sadistic attitude with streaks of routine cruelty. He traded guys just because he could and often did. Overall, just a hateful human being. A practitioner of the concept "if it isn't broken, break it". 

 

Messier was maybe the most arrogant player in Canucks history. Everything was about him and he worked fist in glove with Keenan. His best days were far behind him when he signed for $18M over three years. He had to sue to collect about $6M of it. 

 

I have mentioned this before, but those three years of Messier and some with Keenan made me not really care what happened to the Canucks. I don't even remember who else was playing for the team at the time. I only remember that when Brian Burke took over, it was like the clouds had parted and the sun came out. Then he brought Trevor Linden home and drafted both Sedins and I was back full force.

 

Trivial Fun Fact: It was Mike Keenan, who was Florida's GM at the time, who traded Roberto Luongo to Vancouver in one of his final acts before losing a power struggle to coach Jacques Martin and subsequently resigning. 

I think there was more to it than that but you are right about Burkie.  

[Maninthebox]

At the time, I didn't like the Messier signing because he was old, bald, and ugly but my sister thought he was hot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What? I didn't need a valid reason, I was a stupid teenager back then.

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

3 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

 I'm just going by my recollections on how he treated Gelinas (remember, this was over 20 years ago).  Never said my memory is infallible.

 

My apologies, I never tried to insinuate otherwise.  

 

I just don't recall Keenan treating Gelinas horribly.  

 

If anything, I saw it as a sign that perhaps Keenan was trying to sell high on Gelinas (Gelinas' best season came the year before and was a bit of an 'outlier' as far as production went).  Given that the 94' core had become stale, I also think Keenan was trying to gut that stale core.  Hence, McLean and Gelinas were moved for Sanderson, Ciccone, and Sean Burke (if I recall correctly).  Ironically enough, all three of those players were moved before the season ended!   

 

And if there was in fact a lockerrom rift between the old 1994 core and some of the new guard, then Keenan obviously was going to have to make some moves.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Jeremy Hronek]

4 hours ago, KristoffWixenschon said:

 

Yeah! I think we were all in shock!

 

 

Never before in my life had I ever seen a city be so mindfucked over a sporting loss.  

 

Made me actually lose a bit of respect for my former hometown of Vancouver to be quite honest.  

[Snausages]

Not gonna lie, the entire sh*tshow of Mess & Kennan's reign of terror became morbidly entertaining to me. Checking the paper every single day to see who was the latest victim to be traded was an exciting ritual of pain and wonder.  Watching every new greasy longhaired arrival having to fight during their first shift was hilariously barbaric. New forward? You're fighting tonight. New goalie? You're fighting tonight. New vice president of hockey operations? You're fighting tonight.  Such a dark and cruel era. I'm 90% sure that for like a week or two we had a line of Odjick-Scatchard-Brashear. Total insanity. Should've just handed each of them a gladius and then pushed a starving polar bear through the zamboni doors.

[nuckin_futz]

Mike Keenan explains how Mark Messier essentially hired him as Canucks coach

The 1997-98 season was probably the most tumultuous one in Vancouver Canucks history.

 

It began with a lot of promise, as the team signed prized free agent Mark Messier in the summer. Dubbed the “greatest leader in sports” at the time, the Hall of Famer was supposed to help a talented Canucks team compete for a Stanley Cup, with the likes of Pavel Bure, Alex Mogilny, and Trevor Linden.

 

Needless to say, things didn’t go as planned.

 

It began with Linden handing over the captain’s C to Messier in October. Longtime GM Pat Quinn was fired in November.

 

And then the real fun started.

 

Before hiring a new general manager, ownership fired head coach Tom Renney and hired Mike Keenan to replace him. And it was Messier, who teamed up with Keenan to beat the Canucks in the Stanley Cup Final three years earlier, who was most responsible for the hiring.

 

Speaking on the Iron Mike Keenan Podcast with Scott Morrison, Keenan went down memory lane, telling some old stories from his Vancouver days.

Of particular interest was Keenan recalling how he was hired.

 

“I got to Vancouver via Mark Messier,” Keenan said. “Mark Messier went to the owner [John McCaw]… Mark went to John and said, ‘I’d like Mike Keenan to coach this team.'”

 

Keenan then flew to Seattle to meet with the Canucks owner, who essentially handed him a blank cheque.

 

“He said, ‘This is the worst negotiation I’ve ever been in before. You are the coach, how much money would you like and what’s the term?'”

 

Keenan signed a three-year deal, which matched the minimum term on Messier’s contract.

 

“That’s the first time — and thank you, Mark — where I’m in a negotiation and the owner says, ‘Tell me what you want. I have to pay you because I’ve already told Mark you’re gonna coach.'”

 

Because the team still hadn’t replaced Quinn when Keenan arrived, the Canucks essentially made Iron Mike acting general manager.

And boy did he take advantage of that.

 

Before the season was over, Keenan traded many of the players leftover from the 1994 Stanley Cup finalist team, including Linden, Kirk McLean, Martin Gelinas, Dave Babych, and Gino Odjick.

 

“Pat Quinn was very loyal to his players, and I thought to a point where he overextended their lifetime as Vancouver Canucks,” Keenan said. “You can’t hang on to players forever.”

The Trevor Linden trade

 

Keenan’s most controversial deal was when he traded Linden to the New York Islanders.

 

“There was a conflict in the room, a divide in the room, between the leadership and that leadership was Trevor Linden and Mark Messier. It was time for a change in the locker room.”

 

Linden, who had been picked to play for Team Canada at the 1998 Olympics, was still highly thought of around the league, and was the most popular player in Canucks franchise history.

 

“Steve Tambellini [the assistant general manager] was supposed to be a part of it, but he stepped away from this decision because he didn’t think it was going to be very popular, and he was correct.”

 

Of course, there were also reports at the time that Keenan had shouting matches with Linden in the dressing room.

 

“There was an expectation that I had of him,” Keenan said. “I don’t know how comfortable the room was at that point. With the presence of Mark in the room, it changed the franchise.”

 

The room was divided, and Keenan was squarely in Messier’s corner.

 

“There had to be a selection and of course Mark was the fella that brought me in — I had a lot of experience with Mark, Canada Cups and the New York Rangers — so I was going to go with the man that won with me.”

 

Ironically, Keenan’s most unpopular trade turned out to be his best one, as the Canucks acquired Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, and a third-round pick that turned into Jarkko Ruutu.

 

But Keenan didn’t stop at dumping most of the 1994 leftovers. He also shipped out Mike Sillinger, Grant Ledyard, and Lonny Bohonos. Keenan acquired Sean Burke, Geoff Sanderson, and Enrico Ciccone in a trade with the Carolina Hurricanes in January, but by March all three players had been traded away in separate deals.

 

The Canucks finished the season with the third-worst record in the NHL, and Brian Burke was brought in the summer of 1998 to take over as general manager. By January of 1999, Keenan had been fired as coach and replaced by Marc Crawford.

 

Of all the players that hated playing for Keenan, one notable guy seemed to like him.

 

Bure pulled a Messier while he was with the Florida Panthers in 2001, paving the way for Keenan become his team’s new head coach, and eventually general manager too. Keenan said even lived in Bure’s Miami Beach penthouse for a short period of time before he got settled.

 

In a roundabout way, Keenan was a key figure to set the Canucks up for success for the next decade. McCabe was a key part of the deal made by Burke to bring both Sedins to Vancouver, while Bertuzzi became the league’s premier power forward for a period of time.

 

And then as GM of the Panthers in 2006, Keenan did the Canucks a solid by getting fleeced in the Roberto Luongo trade.

 

*******************

 

Keenan's mistreatment of Trevor Linden was very hard to stomach.

 

"Linden injured his groin just one week into Keenan's reign and returned to the lineup that fateful night in St. Louis. It was also Keenan's first time back in St. Louis after being fired by the Blues the previous season. With the Canucks down 4-1 heading into the third period, Keenan decided to unload on Linden. According to former Sun columnist Gary Mason, Iron Mike was incensed that Linden was commending some of his teammates for their effort to that point. "Shut the f*** up, just shut the f*** up!" Keenan screamed. "Who the f*** are you?" "What the f*** have you ever won". Keenan questioned Linden's pride in a tirade that continued for three or four minutes. Mason wrote that Keenan later apologized, but the damage was done."

 

**************

 

As I recall Jyrki Lumme said of the incident something to the effect of 'It was really bad, one of us should have said something'.

 

****************

 

That's why both of them are despised. They took a much beloved team and ripped it to shreds simply because they could. Disrespecting everyone in their path along the way. Messier has long wanted to get into management but everyone around the league saw his first foray into management as a Canucks player and wants no part of him destroying their teams. Keenan would work for a few more teams but never found success in the league again. Eventually he found himself coaching in Russia until no one there wanted him anymore.

 

In summation F*** Messier and F*** Keenan.

Edited October 21, 2023 by nuckin_futz

[Grandmaster]

10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Canucks were after Gretzky first, and when that deal fell through, they went to plan b and went after Messier the following year.  The idea was sound, bring in a 6 time Stanley Cup champion who could take the 1994 core and bring them back to the finals again.

 

Problem is Linden was already past his prime, Mogilny was floating around and not putting in the effort, and Bure basically wanted out by that time.  McLean was also past his prime.  So the timing was off.  Quinn was desperate for the team to turn around so he went back to coaching, but it didn't work out.  The 1994 team was past it's peak and needed to be changed up.

 

I watched it all unfold in real time.  I don't believe the story that Messier ripped the C from Linden.  I think Linden was a bit pressured to give it to him, but I think he did it willingly.  It was the media that spun the story around.  As for the #11, not sure if Messier knew about the Wayne Maki story, but the number wasn't technically retired and the team approved it, so Messier took the number.  If it was really a big deal, then Quinn should have spoken out, but he didn't.  Quinn apparently called the family after the fact and they were upset.  But honestly, if the Canucks wanted that number out of circulation, they should have either retired it or just taken the number out of their jersey cycle.  It's not like Wayne Maki was some hero or anything.  He literally almost killed another player on the ice.  And he barely played with the Canucks.

 

Messier came in and basically floated around for 3 years.  He was definitely past his prime.  So the experiment failed.  Just like when we brought in Mats Sundin.  For all of the turmoil of the Messier/Keenan era, the bright spot was that Keenan ripped the team apart and actually made some good trades.  Of course, the best one was trading Linden for Bertuzzi and McCabe.  That turned the team around once Messier left and once Naslund became a star.  I think Messier actually had a positive effect on Naslund.  He came into his own afterwards and became a superstar.  

 

At the end of the day, it was a dark time in our history.  However, our team was already going downhill prior to Messier arriving.  Bure wanted out and Linden was already past his prime at 26 years old.  His body was worn out trying to be an iron man and from that playoff run.  I think Messier and Keenan made things worse.  But in the end with some smart trades we ended up being a great team again with the Westcoast Express.  If we had Luongo or McLean during that time we would have won the cup...

 

Well stated.

 

Continuing on with this factual account, the rewards of the following were trades were felt for decades. 

 

(Passed prime) Linden -> Bertuzzi (best power forward in Canuck history) & McCabe

 

McCabe -> draft for a Sedin (one of the best forwards in Canuck history)

 

Bertuzzi -> Luongo (best goalie in Canuck history)

 

Luongo -> Markstrom 

 

This time range for all of this was from 1998 to the 2020. Pretty incredible. 

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Quinn was desperate for the team to turn around so he went back to coaching, but it didn't work out.  The 1994 team was past it's peak and needed to be changed up.

 

 

 

Tom Renney coached the Canucks during the 96-97 season and also at the start of the 97-98 season did he not?

 

Also, with regards to Sundin, that was a different story.  Sundin, 38, had missed half a season waiting for the Rangers to clear cap space so that he could play for them. When that didn't happen, he signed with Vancouver and was understandably a bit rusty.  As we got closer to the playoffs however, we saw glimpses of the old Sundin.  Sundin was PPG during the playoffs and took Kesler under his wing.  Kesler even gives Sundin massive credit towards molding him (i.e. Kesler was trending to be an elite 3rd line Center before Sundin gave him some tips into becoming a stronger offensive threat).  

Edited October 21, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[nuckin_futz]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Tom Renney coached the Canucks during the 96-97 season and also at the start of the 97-98 season did he not?

 

Renney was fired 19 games into the 97-98 season then Messier hired the new coach Mike Keenan.