Messier/Iron Mike??

[Jeremy Hronek]

3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

Renney was fired 19 games into the 97-98 season then Messier hired the new coach Mike Keenan.

 

And Pat Quinn, the GM, got canned before Renney did right?   Strange times indeed.  

[nuckin_futz]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

And Pat Quinn, the GM, got canned before Renney did right?   Strange times indeed.  

 

Yes Quin was canned first which despite the 'vote of confidence' left Renney a dead man walking/coaching. The behind the scenes machinations were in full force.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Tom Renney coached the Canucks during the 96-97 season and also at the start of the 97-98 season did he not?

 

Also, with regards to Sundin, that was a different story.  Sundin, 38, had missed half a season waiting for the Rangers to clear cap space so that he could play for them. When that didn't happen, he signed with Vancouver and was understandably a bit rusty.  As we got closer to the playoffs however, we saw glimpses of the old Sundin.  Sundin was PPG during the playoffs and took Kesler under his wing.  Kesler even gives Sundin massive credit towards molding him (i.e. Kesler was trending to be an elite 3rd line Center before Sundin gave him some tips into becoming a stronger offensive threat).  

Quinn fired Rick Ley and replaced him as coach for a short time at the end of the 1995-96 season. He then hired Tom Renney. 
 

In regards to Sundin, I don’t recall him ever playing at a high level. He played okay during the playoffs. But certainly him walking away from that $10 million contract was a good thing. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Dr. Crossbar]

I still can't believe anyone thought bringing Messier and Keenan to Vancouver was the right idea. It's still mind-boggling to this day.

 

Just think about it ...

 

Only 3-4 years earlier, the Messier and Keenan led Rangers put a knife through our hearts when they won the 94 cup. We came so heartbreakingly close to upsetting the Rangers but lost to the arrogant, smug, entitled Messier and Keenan who acted as if the Cup was their destiny. The narrative around Messier was that he went to the NYC to win the Rangers a cup. 

 

The 94 Canucks, however, weren't predicted to get past the first round. No one thought we'd do anything. But then we kept winning game after game, round after round, despite the odds and naysayers. It really was magical. We actually had a real chance to beat the Rangers and do the unthinkable. 

 

It was a truly special time in the city and the most heartbreaking time I ever felt as a fan. It demoralized and deflated fans for a few years afterward. Especially knowing we likely couldn't and wouldn't be able to return to the Cup. It was a Cinderella run.

 

But then ... as fans were still grieving that loss 3-4 years later, the Canucks organization actually brought in Messier and Keenan in the hope that they could repeat a Cup win for us after beating us. 

 

The more I write about it here, the more crazy that decision seems ... it was like pouring salt in an open wound and then rubbing our noses in the fact that Messier and Keenan were the ones to beat us to win their Cup.

 

As a result, we watched Linden leave after Messier became captain, which was like pouring even more salt in the wound. And then Messier just seemed to be here for the paycheck, didn't care about the team, which only made matters worse. 

 

It was a brutal time to be a Canucks fan. Again, I still can't believe the organization did that and anyone involved thought it would be a good idea. 

 

The 1994 loss was absolutely devastating. Bringing in Messier and Keenan only amplified our pain and grief as fans and prevented us from healing. In fact, it made everything much worse.

 

I will say this though ... I've always thought the fact that Keenan was so instrumental in making the Luongo trade happen, a steal for us, was somewhat of an attempt to make things right from his time here. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Dr. Crossbar

[King Heffy]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I will say this though ... I've always thought the fact that Keenan was so instrumental in making the Luongo trade happen, a steal for us, was somewhat of an attempt to make things right from his time here.

Mike Keenan has never wanted to the right thing in his life.

[Steamer4GM]

18 hours ago, TheBearded1 said:

Too young and uninterested at that time of my life but many here see it as a dark time.

 

WHY?

 

Wasn't it a good idea to bring in winning pedigree?  Who wouldn't want one of hockey's greatest leaders in their room?  Who wouldn't want a cup winning coach behind their bench?   To me, it only spells success.

 

Why the negativity and why the early exits from both personalities?

 

 

Guaran-fucking-tee you the two of them get together at least once/year to gloat over beers about how much money they fleeced us for, how much damage they did to the franchise and how ironically stupid it was for management to even consider bringing in "EX"-arch rivals thinking they'd actually give a shit and try and help the team they had only recently beat in a 7th game of the cup final. They were loyal to themselves and the Rangers only and were only in Vancouver as a way to pour salt in our wounds and fill their bank accounts on the backs of our hockey souls

[The Arrogant Worms]

[RawkDrummer]

They sucked!

[viking mama]

No one seems to discuss the juxtaposition of Linden & Messier as bonafide Captain material.
 

Linden was perhaps pressured to offer Messier his “C” & likely did so, only to facilitate some healing in the dressing room.  Yet, Messier was just too damned narcissistic & arrogant to acknowledge that he should turn it down, in kind, to earn any sweater letter properly

(as all players should do), through his own personal sacrificing & commitments on & off the ice for the team, over time. That would have been the better way to endear oneself to new teammates, gain friends, win over the fans or influence people in VanCity. But, he didn’t. So, in lieu of that…the Canucks’ dressing room, full of ‘94 Cup Final participants, only knew the horrible character of an O-6 enabled head-hunter & cheat, who’s never been held to proper account by the NHLOA’s apparent “best”. 

 

Linden was VanCity’s valiant warrior on the ice & high-profile community servant off the ice…where as Messier, was missing in action, all around. I’m confident in saying, Messier spent far more time out of our fair city than in it, while he was the Canuck’s Captain. That’s disgusting.
 

If Messier wanted to replace our beloved Canuck’s Captain - you’d think he’d at the very least attempt to care one iota about the fans & this city. He did not!
 

Keenan ripping Linden publicly in humiliating fashion, to Messier’s delight, did nothing to  acknowledge what a supremely generous & self-sacrificing jesture he had made in surrendering his “C” for what he perceived to be a  unifying thing. He was only endeavouring to show his ‘mates that by-gones can be by-gones.
 

^That was NOT the rational thinking of unchampion-like former-Rangers, Keenan & Messier, tho’. They weren’t even attempting to turn the page on those lingering feelings of rival aggression. They couldn’t!  Both were incapable of being humble. It was a good vs evil thing. Messier & Keenan were evil & they were going to embrace it, some more!!
 

Linden’s teammates  witnessing/hearing Keenan’s verbal crucifixion of their hero, a guy who had lead them to war against the villainous/NYR trying to usurp him…..must have been heart-breaking, to say the least. Keenan was accurate in reporting one thing - most of the ‘94 Cup-run hold-overs, would NEVER be respecting or following him or Messier, anywhere, after that.
 

Messier & Keenan’s only course of action was to core-bust & that they did & we hated them for it. 
 

Keenan, NOT appreciating Linden’s deep humility in offering up his “C” in the first place & feeling a need to further denigrate the former Captain,…was an extra-ordinarily ugly revelation into the quality of Keenan’s character - that can never be forgotten or undone. 

 

Character matters, especially in this very progressive town & I’m proud that the Canucks’ fans I associate with, generally understand that the honourable quality of leadership demonstrated by Trevor Linden & both of the Sedin twins, far exceeded all the hype & accolades heaped upon one over-lauded & league-enabled super-villain like Mark Messier. 
 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by viking mama

[Flipper]

My hatred of he who won’t be named is well documented.
 

I guess for those of you trying to rationalize the whole thing by saying that over time it led to Naslund, etc, will you equate it to the last few years of Canuck turmoil we’ve had to live through (with multiple coaches, Benning, etc) if a new era of success is the result? Will it be worth the past few years of hell? 20 years from now will everyone give Benning credit for drafting the current core and forget the upheaval because it led to better times? 

 

To me it’s kind of the same except worse because our hero’s from ‘94 got treated like shit and run out of town in the process. The Sedins didn’t get run out of town for us to get to the point we’re at today. Benning had his faults and we’ve lived through some dark times but it didn’t involve the crap that those two former Rangers brought down on us. 
 

But if you’re trying to rationalize the whole Keenan situation by saying it has a great outcome, will you say the same thing about the past few years if the next 10 years turn out great? 

[Breadnbutta]

On 10/20/2023 at 6:22 PM, TheBearded1 said:

Too young and uninterested at that time of my life but many here see it as a dark time.

 

WHY?

 

Wasn't it a good idea to bring in winning pedigree?  Who wouldn't want one of hockey's greatest leaders in their room?  Who wouldn't want a cup winning coach behind their bench?   To me, it only spells success.

 

Why the negativity and why the early exits from both personalities?

 

 

 

Mark Messier played for both teams and pinch hit every once in a while if you know what I mean. He also liked to party... 

 

He Gary Coleman'd Pavel Bure at his downtown penthouse and next thing you know Bure wanted out of town.

 

He also stole number 11 which was unofficially retired for a players death and stole the captaincy from Trevor.

 

He got his payday and played lazy and lackadaisical.

 

Fuck Mark Messier

[Seabass21]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:37 PM, Dankmemes187 said:

Back in those days, most Canucks fans, including myself, were up in arms about Mark Messier joining our team even before he set foot on the ice. The wounds of Lindens broken ribs was still fresh, and to make matters worse, Messier was given the number 11 jersey, a number that had always been unofficially retired out of respect for Wayne Maki. It felt like a slap in the face to our beloved Canucks history and our Captain

 

The Messier Signing is one that, let's put it kindly, didn't turn out the way anyone hoped. In fact, it's widely regarded as one of the worst decisions in Canucks history. Messier's performance left much to be desired,He mailed it in.  Tt was clear that Messier and Iron Mike wasn't winning any popularity contests among fans, myself included. I was only 15 at the time, and while I couldn't catch every game due to limited broadcasts, I devoured every bit of Canucks news I could find in the Province and the Sun, and all the latenight sports highlights, especially the spicy stuff.

 

The media, much like the fans, weren't holding back either. Even nearly two decades after Messier's departure, they were still airing their grievances. I vividly remember how much the Messier era irked me and many others. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/mark-messier-canucks-contract-1997

 

What's intriguing is that despite the mess Messier left behind, the Linden trade did lead to some unexpected silver linings. We acquired players like Todd Bertuzzi, Ruttu, And McCabe which led to drafting the Sedins, who would later become the backbone of our team's success for a solid decade. There was also the Petr Nedved trade, which brought Markus Naslund into the mix.

 

F Messier

I believe it was Alex Stojanov(sp) 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

On 10/21/2023 at 11:33 AM, King Heffy said:

Mike Keenan has never wanted to the right thing in his life.

Don't be a hater Heffy.  Here's an example of the sacrifice Mike is willing to make in a fire:

 

 

[igorwasgreat]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:35 PM, King Heffy said:

The only time I want to see Messier's name is in an obituary.

.

[Goal_thecup]

I see the fishing was good here today.

[Jeremy Hronek]

On 10/21/2023 at 12:03 PM, Jeremy Hronek said:

The Vancouver media's obsession with Boston between 2011 and 2017 was really sad and pathetic.  Ditto for the city.

 

The day/week after Boston won the cup, Sportschek at Metrotown were selling Bruins jerseys in the front row.  What kind of city and store openly honors its rivals like that and acts like a cuck bitch?  If the Canucks had won the cup, do you think they'd be selling Canucks jerseys in Boston?  Fucks sake.

 

And then, you had the media.  

 

-"Tryamkin can be our Chara."

-"Kassian can be our Lucic."

-"Brendan Leipsic can be our Brad Marchand."

-"Lets trade for Adam McQuaid and/or Johnny Boychuk."

-"Lets sign Lucic!"

-"The Boston Model."

 

Was a complete joke and the media here (and many fans) should be embarrassed.

 

Between 2011 and 2017, you had 26 teams trying to figure out the "Chicago, LA, and Pittsburgh models," while Vancouver's media had their noses up Boston's sphincter.  

 

 

 

@Goal_thecup - Why the long (Kuzmenko) face?  

[Combover]