[ARTICLE] Have the Vancouver Canucks finally found their long-term partner for Quinn Hughes?

[Crabcakes]

23 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

I think they have plans for Willander to be Hughes's long term partner.  

The Canucks in 2 years have embarrassed Benning so hard with the defensive prospects Alvin has been able to accumulate.  He's made a Joke of Benning 

Remember when JR said that the biggest part of his job was "managing up"?  In other words, managing the owner.  It's pretty clear that Benning couldn't manage the owner and made a lot of stupid moves as a result.  Allvin has spent the bulk of his time and energy to date trying to un-do Bennings mistakes.  

[Dr. Crossbar]

25 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Allvin has spent the bulk of his time and energy to date trying to un-do Bennings mistakes.  

 

And doing a remarkable job, imo. Even more so given the fact he barely made any changes the first year. The decision making has been so much more precise. 

[Crabcakes]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

And doing a remarkable job, imo. Even more so given the fact he barely made any changes the first year. The decision making has been so much more precise. 

Ya, it has been said that Allvin is very thorough.  His work certainly backs that up.

[Alflives]

48 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Remember when JR said that the biggest part of his job was "managing up"?  In other words, managing the owner.  It's pretty clear that Benning couldn't manage the owner and made a lot of stupid moves as a result.  Allvin has spent the bulk of his time and energy to date trying to un-do Bennings mistakes.  

Have to give JR credit for keeping our owner away from hockey ops. He even got our owner to buyout OEL, which old drunken Alf thought had no chance of happening. JR manages the own and that allows Allvin to manage our club. And it’s working good. 

[The Duke]

On 10/25/2023 at 11:27 AM, Coconuts said:

I'd rather let Willander stew. If he's ready that's one thing, but he was an 11OA and is a D, who often need to stew longer than forwards. I'd expect him to probably need to stew. 

 

I reckon he'll be a good player for us down the road, but I'd rather management's wish to compete/contend now not result in them rushing him. 

For sure.  If the plan right now is to pop a guy who has a handful of college games under his belt into the top 4 in the NHL next year - it’s a bad plan.

 

Hughes doesn’t need a big physical babysitter. Let him and Hronek dominate, look at bringing back Cole and finding a solid 2nd pair RD to replace Myers. 
 

I like Bear on the 3rd pair with Soucy.

 

If one of the prospects lights it up, maybe they move into the bottom pair with Soucy, who can play both sides.  
 

Still need to be actively hunting for (or bringing back) a bottom 4 RD and LD.  But that’s a whole lot easier to find than a top pairing piece.

Edited October 27, 2023 by The Duke

[spook007]

8 hours ago, Gurn said:

Sadly, so far, it looks like Hronek needs to be carried by Quinn.

All that money and trade assets, gone.

 

maybe in a few more games they will trust him enough to be the lead guy on a pairing.

I sure hope so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gurn]

6 hours ago, spook007 said:

Not really.

If all Hronek is going to do is play with Quinn:

Schenn is currently $1.65  mill cheaper, for a longer term, and likely would have taken less; in order to not have to move during his wife's pregnancy.

We lose his 2 time Stanley Cup winning, gold medal junior, and silver at the World Hockey championship, experience.

Lose his physical edge, and the certainty that he 'fits' with his teammates.

 

In return we end up with a more offensive, but less physical guy, that gets minimal power play time, as the 2nd unit continues to get hosed for ice time.

Oh- and it cost a first round pick as well.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

Not really.

If all Hronek is going to do is play with Quinn:

Schenn is currently $1.65  mill cheaper, for a longer term, and likely would have taken less; in order to not have to move during his wife's pregnancy.

We lose his 2 time Stanley Cup winning, gold medal junior, and silver at the World Hockey championship, experience.

Lose his physical edge, and the certainty that he 'fits' with his teammates.

 

In return we end up with a more offensive, but less physical guy, that gets minimal power play time, as the 2nd unit continues to get hosed for ice time.

Oh- and it cost a first round pick as well.

That's the devils advocate take.   
 

Come on man, Schenn's career is almost over, where as Hronek's should be closing in on the middle part, the best part. .    What sort of asset management would it be to just use NYI pick?   Fine if it meant blowing it all up and trade EP, Demko and QHs. 

 

They could still do that regardless.   Same way they could either re-sign Hronek or trade him.  

 

Of all our "first round picks" ... how many worked out right away?   All-time actually.   Or if you prefer a shorter window that's ok too.   Butcher was considered our best first round pick until Linden came around  ... without checking think he was a 10th overall.    Stajanov miss.   Ohlund hit in 1994.   JV was close to average for his draft slot, most would consider him a bust.    McAan well not the norm, and those guys usually take time like he did.   With any sort of context added, it wasn't a bad move.   Finally we have a top pairing RHD (and well that's how Button sees it - go ahead and tell us otherwise).   Schenn was replaced by Cole.   Who in your opinion, is the better player.. Hronek is 25/26.   Almost a decade younger, I mean who is the better player Cole or Schenn?  To me it's a wash.   Cole is faster and a better passer, Schenn is tougher and better infront of the net.   As far as hitting goes, there is a massive difference between finishing a check and destroying a guy.    Schenn doesn't and neither does Miller - destroy guys.   Soucy can and will.   It's not a tracked stat that means much to me anyways other then does the player finish his check or not, very subjective into what is a hit and what isn't - and for me anyways still in its infancy.    Scott Steven's wasn't the only guy in his era that could lay a big hit.   Blake was better at standing up the blue line.    Doesn't get talked about much anymore.   But it was back then.   Two legendary hits ... there were a lot of other great hitters at the time too.  

 

One thing I will say is after all the freaking complaining about poor JB asset management, if your one of those guys (not keeping track) and now complaining about actually swapping Horvat for a RFA cost controlled, top pairing RHD... then that's not even ironic.  It's funny.   
 

On Schenn.   Personally always said we should re-sign him.   But if we did, we wouldn't have Cole, and as for Cole and Schenn and as a fanbase, we won't get those guys year to year.   They aren't quite unicorns, but also not common.   Very lucky to have had both capwise.    We got lucky so far.    A lot of teams need them to balance their cap hits.   JB wont get any credit for signing Schenn x 2 years either.   At just about league min.   As for QHs, why should he get used and abused, give the guy someone highly skilled to play with. 

 

Edit:  In short we got a good top four RHD about to enter his prime years.   For Horvat who we couldn't win with.   And asked for way too much.   Even with cap going up which is a common thing these days.  Saying the caps going up.   Then Allvin replaced Schenn, not with Schmidt but a for less then Schenn just got (and deservedly so) in Cole to ride out into the sunset.     We won't get a Schenn back either for a 3rd rounder.    Don't have a crystal ball,  but do think we have a pretty good shot at a somewhat cost controlled first pairing that is at or near tops in the league.  

Edited October 27, 2023 by IBatch

[Gurn]

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, IBatch said:

What sort of asset management would it be to just use NYI pick?

Good asset management- is what it would be.

I'm reasonably sure the Canucks will still be playing hockey in a few years, when that first matures to being an NHL player.

 

Right now it is costing more money, and a first round pick for a guy to play tag along with Quinn.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

 

 

 

Good asset management- is what it would be.

I'm reasonably sure the Canucks will still be playing hockey in a few years, when that first matures to being an NHL player.

 

Right now it is costing more money, and a first round pick for a guy to play tag along with Quinn.

Not when you add context.    Are you expecting QHs to do it all?   Free agency maybe plugs one hole.  Myers hole is almost open.   Our D still needs help, and that's with Hronek and Cole, and Soucy.   But QHs is ok to wait until free agency (his deal ) ... not going to happen.   At this point i'm not even sure I'd bet on EP staying, but the odds went way up with the Horvat to Hronek trade.  I'm with Button.  Canucks needs to tear it down or pick a lane.  They are still in Limbo and that's with the Hronek trade.   At least they can trade him again right? 

 

Edit:  Actually with Hronek put on ice instead of playing (last season traded while injured)  ... it got us another RHD, no idea why JB kept drafting LHDs.   And ignored that spot aside from Woo lol, not exactly something to get excited about and always a long shot.    Where did NYI pick land?   And how old will QHs be, how many years left on his deal by the time NYI pick is ready to play? ... and why wouldn't we end up trading him and start all over (QHs) ,  EP for sure already traded - and Demko too.   They identified these things.   It's what others in the industry also have been saying too. 

  We've got to consider even now that's a very real possibility, that if things don't work out need to blow it all up.   We haven't blown up a team since the Linden era.  And none post cap. 

 

  Can't keep paying guys more and more if they can't even make the playoffs right?   They've got this year and next year, if it doesn't work (and that's with getting better), there won't be any QHs or EP to play with.   In this case then yes might as well have kept the pick but will have to be judged on what we get from Hronek later this season if the wheels fall off, or next off season.   

 

Allvin has at most 16-18 months left before he will have to pick a lane.   I can see his logic.    Don't be shocked if things are going well, to see a first rounder traded every year until it's no longer going well. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by IBatch

[spook007]

59 minutes ago, Gurn said:

 

 

 

Good asset management- is what it would be.

I'm reasonably sure the Canucks will still be playing hockey in a few years, when that first matures to being an NHL player.

 

Right now it is costing more money, and a first round pick for a guy to play tag along with Quinn.

How long are we going to wait Gurn? How long?

How long is EP prepared to be losing with no end in sight? 

 

If this is the plan, then we may as well trade Petey and start all over, and then be ready MAYBE, in 5-8 years...

 

I've had enough of waiting. We have the corner stones, to a good/great team... yes we need luck as well, but who doesn't?

Let's not start the debate about the winner have top 3 picks on them. Far more losing teams have top 3 picks on them and are still losing..

 

To me personally its a master stroke to get Hronek, and who knows, just now he plays with Quinn Hughes, but later may very well be anchoring a strong 2nd pairing.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Not when you add context.    Are you expecting QHs to do it all?   Free agency maybe plugs one hole.  Myers hole is almost open.   Our D still needs help, and that's with Hronek and Cole, and Soucy.   But QHs is ok to wait until free agency (his deal ) ... not going to happen.   At this point i'm not even sure I'd bet on EP staying, but the odds went way up with the Horvat to Hronek trade.  I'm with Button.  Canucks needs to tear it down or pick a lane.  They are still in Limbo and that's with the Hronek trade.   At least they can trade him again right? 

 

Edit:  Actually with Hronek put on ice instead of playing (last season traded while injured)  ... it got us another RHD, no idea why JB kept drafting LHDs.   And ignored that spot aside from Woo lol, not exactly something to get excited about and always a long shot.    Where did NYI pick land?   And how old will QHs be, how many years left on his deal by the time NYI pick is ready to play? ... and why wouldn't we end up trading him and start all over (QHs) ,  EP for sure already traded - and Demko too.   They identified these things.   It's what others in the industry also have been saying too. 

  We've got to consider even now that's a very real possibility, that if things don't work out need to blow it all up.   We haven't blown up a team since the Linden era.  And none post cap. 

 

  Can't keep paying guys more and more if they can't even make the playoffs right?   They've got this year and next year, if it doesn't work (and that's with getting better), there won't be any QHs or EP to play with.   In this case then yes might as well have kept the pick but will have to be judged on what we get from Hronek later this season if the wheels fall off, or next off season.   

 

Allvin has at most 16-18 months left before he will have to pick a lane.   I can see his logic.    Don't be shocked if things are going well, to see a first rounder traded every year until it's no longer going well. 

Been saying this the last year...

There's a reason the got rid of OEL despite its going to hurt for a longer period. Something has to give. None of us knows, what are being said during negotiations, but Petey may very well have stated, that he won't extend regardless of money, if this team doesn't't improve... We all know he has sad in public, that he wants to win.

 

They need to figure out now, if the players we have are good enough to build a contender around. They have this year and next... if they still lay in the mushy middle, expect it all to be blown wide open. 

[cripplereh]

3 hours ago, Gurn said:

Not really.

If all Hronek is going to do is play with Quinn:

Schenn is currently $1.65  mill cheaper, for a longer term, and likely would have taken less; in order to not have to move during his wife's pregnancy.

We lose his 2 time Stanley Cup winning, gold medal junior, and silver at the World Hockey championship, experience.

Lose his physical edge, and the certainty that he 'fits' with his teammates.

 

In return we end up with a more offensive, but less physical guy, that gets minimal power play time, as the 2nd unit continues to get hosed for ice time.

Oh- and it cost a first round pick as well.

Well we held the first until we got our man.Wasn't our first and we got a player that looks great and doing more then that first was worth.That was a great move.

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

How long are we going to wait Gurn? How long?

How long is EP prepared to be losing with no end in sight? 

 

If this is the plan, then we may as well trade Petey and start all over, and then be ready MAYBE, in 5-8 years...

 

I've had enough of waiting. We have the corner stones, to a good/great team... yes we need luck as well, but who doesn't?

Let's not start the debate about the winner have top 3 picks on them. Far more losing teams have top 3 picks on them and are still losing..

 

To me personally its a master stroke to get Hronek, and who knows, just now he plays with Quinn Hughes, but later may very well be anchoring a strong 2nd pairing.

 

Great post and points. I've mentioned this around here before. We just completely suffered through eight years of "patience" from Benning, nearly a decade ... also previously suffering through the decline after 2011.

 

At this point, it's absolutely ridiculous to ask and expect fans to wait another 5-8 years for a "shot" at becoming a contender. That would be two decades. TWO freaking decades. 

 

Fans deserve a winning team now. The players want to win now. 

 

Thankfully we now have competent management that's committed to doing just that.

 

With Hughes and Hronek, we have our legit #1 pair. Now it's time for more surgery on D to take the next step. 

 

Hronek was a master stroke. People need to accept that and get with the program. It'll be much more enjoyable. 

 

 

[spook007]

4 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Great post and points. I've mentioned this around here before. We just completely suffered through eight years of "patience" from Benning, nearly a decade ... also previously suffering through the decline after 2011.

 

At this point, it's absolutely ridiculous to ask and expect fans to wait another 5-8 years for a "shot" at becoming a contender. That would be two decades. TWO freaking decades. 

 

Fans deserve a winning team now. The players want to win now. 

 

Thankfully we now have competent management that's committed to doing just that.

 

With Hughes and Hronek, we have our legit #1 pair. Now it's time for more surgery on D to take the next step. 

 

Hronek was a master stroke. People need to accept that and get with the program. It'll be much more enjoyable. 

 

 

Exactly...

Now its time to push forward...

Who knows, what tomorrow will bring, but wasting what we got, in the hope of maybe get something better, makes little to no sense to me.,,, and by the look of it to management as well.

 

What's the point of offering Petey a $11-12M contract, if he can't lead us forward? And that's provided he even wants to sign a contract with a team that doesn't show any ambition. We've complained since 2011 that we don't have a no.1 D man... Now we actually have just a no.1 D man but potentially a real top pairing D...

So let's bloody see if it is worth building on for the future.... And lets win some damn hockey games... 

[Alflives]

Hronek has 10 points and is third in NHL scoring for D. And he plays limited PP minted. The guy is a heck of a player. 

[kettlevalley]

Personally loving Hronek.  But still don't think this is Hughes long term partner.  Hronek will anchor his own pair when the D gets a little better.  

[Sativika]

4 minutes ago, kettlevalley said:

Personally loving Hronek.  But still don't think this is Hughes long term partner.  Hronek will anchor his own pair when the D gets a little better.  

This. I'm guessing this is the reason for PA working' the phones. In so much that our D pairings are getting accolades from NHL experts (Yes. Even Chaos Giraffe!), I still feel a need is required to get that Pronger type partner for Huggy. 

 

The good possibility of reacquiring Bear changes things somewhat.  He would add to our D depth for sure and allow more pairing possibilities. I realize Bear's not the answer, but he's a familiar player with us; we know what we're getting and can use him accordingly.