The Calgary Flames are a mess

[Canucks_fo_life]

Flames lose on back to back days, to Philly last night and lost in Chicago today to a severely depleted Blackhawks roster, Calgary is no good

[Alflives]

Just now, Canucks_fo_life said:

Flames lose on back to back days, to Philly last night and lost in Chicago today to a severely depleted Blackhawks roster, Calgary is no good

watching the Flames lose, and knowing their fans are suffering, makes old Alf tip back a scotch in celebration. 

[AatuD2]

8 hours ago, Alflives said:

watching the Flames lose, and knowing their fans are suffering, makes old Alf tip back a scotch in celebration. 

 

I want them to finish 16th from the bottom and toil away in mediocrity 

[Canucks_fo_life]

BUMP

[Alflives]

7 hours ago, Canucks_fo_life said:

BUMP

Well done. Smelly Cowpies 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Looks like Kuzmenko is being used less in Calgary than he was in Vancouver. I am aware he's day to day right now.

 

Anyone have any intel on what the Flames think if his game and the fans thoughts on him?

 

 

[CanuckMan]

For how much the flames have been a “mess” they are still only 3 points out of a wild card spot. Never know what can happen in today’s NHL.

[Miss Korea]

4 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Looks like Kuzmenko is being used less in Calgary than he was in Vancouver. I am aware he's day to day right now.

 

Anyone have any intel on what the Flames think if his game and the fans thoughts on him?

 

"He has defensive issues, especially in his own end"

 

"He's been shuffled onto every line and benched during crunch time"

 

Their words, not ours.  And yet it comes as no surprise to either fanbase.  It was no secret why a 39-goal scorer was getting scratched.  He came as advertised.

 

1 hour ago, CanuckMan said:

For how much the flames have been a “mess” they are still only 3 points out of a wild card spot. Never know what can happen in today’s NHL.

 

Hanifin will be gone.  Tanev will be gone.  Markström... maybe will be gone...?

[DownUndaCanuck]

They have to surely just fire-sell everyone, this is a perfect time to rebuild. They've already done well rinsing us back and forth, now sell their big guns. Hanifin will get a Chychrun-like haul, you're looking at a 1st or two there + other bits. Markstrom could easily snag a 1st + A-grade prospect. Tanev will probably get a 1st or 2nd in the end. They might not all be for next year but if they amass five firsts this year they'll go far. They've got so many other guys they could trade too like Andersson and Mangiapagne but they need some sort of team moving forward to protect the kids.

 

I doubt they flip Marky though, they probably want him to protect Wolf.

[Miss Korea]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

They have to surely just fire-sell everyone, this is a perfect time to rebuild. They've already done well rinsing us back and forth, now sell their big guns. Hanifin will get a Chychrun-like haul, you're looking at a 1st or two there + other bits. Markstrom could easily snag a 1st + A-grade prospect. Tanev will probably get a 1st or 2nd in the end. They might not all be for next year but if they amass five firsts this year they'll go far. They've got so many other guys they could trade too like Andersson and Mangiapagne but they need some sort of team moving forward to protect the kids.

 

I doubt they flip Marky though, they probably want him to protect Wolf.

 

@Coconuts and I discussed this in the other thread and we agreed that this team could absolutely try and re-tool for a push next year.  Craig Conroy has to like what he's seen so far from his core.  They looked like shit to start the season, but Huska has helped foster good team chemistry along with your standard Marky playing lights out.

 

How can you trigger a full-on rebuild with Huberdeau and Kadri locked long-term?  The good news is that both of them are playing quite well.  Hanifin and Tanev are as good as gone.  That is for certain.  But if they can get some solid pieces in return and then make some short-term signings in free agency (like we did last summer), they might just shed that reputation of mediocrity next year.

 

You're wanting a fire sale but they're actually only a few points out of playoff spot.  Flames fans have little interest in qualifying this year, but they're not bad enough to have them liquidate everyone.

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

@Coconuts and I discussed this in the other thread and we agreed that this team could absolutely try and re-tool for a push next year.  Craig Conroy has to like what he's seen so far from his core.  They looked like shit to start the season, but Huska has helped foster good team chemistry along with your standard Marky playing lights out.

 

How can you trigger a full-on rebuild with Huberdeau and Kadri locked long-term?  The good news is that both of them are playing quite well.  Hanifin and Tanev are as good as gone.  That is for certain.  But if they can get some solid pieces in return and then make some short-term signings in free agency (like we did last summer), they might just shed that reputation of mediocrity next year.

 

You're wanting a fire sale but they're actually only a few points out of playoff spot.  Flames fans have little interest in qualifying this year, but they're not bad enough to have them liquidate everyone.

 

This is a pretty easy year to be contending for that 2nd wildcard tho. Not sure I'd be putting much weight on that.

 

They have a quarter of their cap locked up in a very meh Kuzy, hubie and Kadri. 

 

They've already lost their best centre and soon half their top 4 d.

 

What quality free agent is going there on any kind of bargain?

[D-Money]

4 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

@Coconuts and I discussed this in the other thread and we agreed that this team could absolutely try and re-tool for a push next year.  Craig Conroy has to like what he's seen so far from his core.  They looked like shit to start the season, but Huska has helped foster good team chemistry along with your standard Marky playing lights out.

 

How can you trigger a full-on rebuild with Huberdeau and Kadri locked long-term?  The good news is that both of them are playing quite well.  Hanifin and Tanev are as good as gone.  That is for certain.  But if they can get some solid pieces in return and then make some short-term signings in free agency (like we did last summer), they might just shed that reputation of mediocrity next year.

 

You're wanting a fire sale but they're actually only a few points out of playoff spot.  Flames fans have little interest in qualifying this year, but they're not bad enough to have them liquidate everyone.

I live in Calgary. A lot of the fans realize this season is lost, and want them to lose to get a better pick. Although they’re not far out of the playoffs at the moment, it’s obvious that the team isn’t going to improve after trading Hanifin & Tanev.

 

But next year? I think they’ll keep their options open with short term contracts. So if it goes sideways again, they can be a seller all over again. 

[Miss Korea]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

This is a pretty easy year to be contending for that 2nd wildcard tho. Not sure I'd be putting much weight on that.

 

They have a quarter of their cap locked up in a very meh Kuzy, hubie and Kadri. 

 

They've already lost their best centre and soon half their top 4 d.

 

What quality free agent is going there on any kind of bargain?

 

Oh yeah, zero chance they qualify after they clear out the two D-men.  It would be comical if they keep winning after the deadline.

 

They could just try and go for a momeyball tactic in July and acquire some solid depth pieces who can punch above their weight.  I'm not talking about Gaudreau/Tavares level UFAs.  Would you call Suter, Cole, and Blueger "quality" free agents?  They have a decent core of puck-moving D-men: Weegar, Rasmussen, and Kylington.  A bit of depth and you might have an okay-looking blueline.

[Bob Long]

20 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Oh yeah, zero chance they qualify after they clear out the two D-men.  It would be comical if they keep winning after the deadline.

 

They could just try and go for a momeyball tactic in July and acquire some solid depth pieces who can punch above their weight.  I'm not talking about Gaudreau/Tavares level UFAs.  Would you call Suter, Cole, and Blueger "quality" free agents?  They have a decent core of puck-moving D-men: Weegar, Rasmussen, and Kylington.  A bit of depth and you might have an okay-looking blueline.

 

I don't think they will attract guys on a bargain, but I could be wrong 

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, D-Money said:

I live in Calgary. A lot of the fans realize this season is lost, and want them to lose to get a better pick. Although they’re not far out of the playoffs at the moment, it’s obvious that the team isn’t going to improve after trading Hanifin & Tanev.

 

But next year? I think they’ll keep their options open with short term contracts. So if it goes sideways again, they can be a seller all over again. 

Didn’t the Flames give their 2024 first to the Habs to move out Monahan? 

[Miss Korea]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Didn’t the Flames give their 2024 first to the Habs to move out Monahan? 

 

No it is their 2025 1st

 

So they have another reason not to completely rebuild next year

[Miss Korea]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't think they will attract guys on a bargain, but I could be wrong 

 

Do you think Suter, Cole, and Blueger were bought at bargains because they thought Vancouver would be a contender?  They don't need the best players on the market - they just need the right guys that fit into Huska's system and they'll do just fine.

[Coconuts]

As @Miss Korea said, a complete teardown doesn't make sense. Nor is it really feasible given how much cap is tied up in Kadri and Huberdeau. 

 

Tanev and Hanifin will be shipped out, but there's a solid chance Markstrom doesn't unless a team blows Calgary's socks off. Why? Because he's insulating Wolf the same way he insulated Demko. Ship out Markstrom and you're thrusting a young tender into a sink or swim scenario which may not be beneficial for the guy they have pegged as their goalie of the future. 

 

Calgary doesn't need to attract top tier, sexy UFA's, they just need to bring in guys who can fit into the system Calgary has in place. It may be that they have to be a lower scoring, more defensive oriented club for a while. If you look at the club, albeit one that won't feature Hanifin or Tanev sooner than later, their team stats are solid. 

 

16th in goals for, 12th in shots on goal, their shooting percentage is on the lower end given it's tied for 18th, they're a decent faceoff team given they're ranked 14th. Middle of the road stuff. Their goals allowed ranks 16th, their shots on goal allowed ranks 18th, their PK is 5th which is a strength, and they rank 16th in terms on penalty minutes. All in all, middle of the road stuff for the most part.

 

Their powerplay is one of the worst in the league though, ranking 30th. The good news for Calgary is it shouldn't be tough to improve upon 30th. If their powerplay rises next season and their PK dips a bit they're probably still a relatively average team if they can maintain what they've done this season. 

 

The good news is they should get hauls for both Hanifin and Tanev. 

 

But yeah, with Kuzmenko and Mangiapane come off the books after next season they'll have some decisions to make. They'll have decisions to make on defense as well, I've argued that they probably don't move Andersson if he can be retain, him, Weegar, and Pachel are the only D they have signed beyond next season. 

 

There's no arguing that Calgary is a team in flux, and they'll work to gather prospects and youth, but I don't see why they can't be competitive going forward if their management group makes savvy moves. 

[AnthonyG]

I’d argue that the time is NOW to rebuild for Calgary. They will never win with Huberdeau and Kadri. They could strip it all down and leave a few vets such as the immovables as leaders to help mentor the youth the could begin to acquire/develop. If you wont win with Huberdeau and Kadri and you wont rebuild, you’re just senselessly waisting year after year of each player coming through your system and eventually chewing up and spitting out players prime years. Those contracts are going nowhere and the years of going through RFAs by the time their big RFAs are up for their big deals, CUNTri and Huberdone are coming to an end.

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

I’d argue that the time is NOW to rebuild for Calgary. They will never win with Huberdeau and Kadri. They could strip it all down and leave a few vets such as the immovables as leaders to help mentor the youth the could begin to acquire/develop. If you wont win with Huberdeau and Kadri and you wont rebuild, you’re just senselessly waisting year after year of each player coming through your system and eventually chewing up and spitting out players prime years. Those contracts are going nowhere and the years of going through RFAs by the time their big RFAs are up for their big deals, CUNTri and Huberdone are coming to an end.

 

What is there to strip down? They already shipped out Zadorov and Lindholm, Tanev and Hanifin will be next. Maybe Markstrom, but there's a good chance not. 

 

Flames have bandied around the word retool, I've also read the word rebuild. More than likely they'll try to compete, they'll stick to short and medium term deals so as to retain roster flexibility. They'll see guys on shorter deals if they flame out. 

 

Weegar, Andersson, you need solid vets around so your young guys aren't getting shelled every night. You need good players on rebuilding/retooling teams for stability, to show younger guys the ropes, to be glue guys. 

Realistically the list of guys not available on Calgary is probably pretty small, Kuzmenko and Mangiapane are pending UFA's next season. 

 

More than likely the guys they keep are Weegar, Andersson, Kadri, and Huberdeau. They'll have Backlund til he retires, maybe Coleman waives his NTC for them at some point. There's really not that much left to sell once Tanev and Hanifin go, unless they ship out Kuzmenko/Mangiapane/Coleman/Sharangovich. And that's only if they conclude they won't be able to retain Sharangovich imo. 

 

Flames are in for some pain whether they try to rebuild or retool, that doesn't mean they should at least try to be competitive. 

 

[Kragar]

Love to see Kadri with 5 more years on his contract.

 

That GM should be fired, oh wait

 

Wow, is Miller ever a steal compared to this!

[AnthonyG]

44 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

What is there to strip down? They already shipped out Zadorov and Lindholm, Tanev and Hanifin will be next. Maybe Markstrom, but there's a good chance not. 

 

Flames have bandied around the word retool, I've also read the word rebuild. More than likely they'll try to compete, they'll stick to short and medium term deals so as to retain roster flexibility. They'll see guys on shorter deals if they flame out. 

 

Weegar, Andersson, you need solid vets around so your young guys aren't getting shelled every night. You need good players on rebuilding/retooling teams for stability, to show younger guys the ropes, to be glue guys. 

Realistically the list of guys not available on Calgary is probably pretty small, Kuzmenko and Mangiapane are pending UFA's next season. 

 

More than likely the guys they keep are Weegar, Andersson, Kadri, and Huberdeau. They'll have Backlund til he retires, maybe Coleman waives his NTC for them at some point. There's really not that much left to sell once Tanev and Hanifin go, unless they ship out Kuzmenko/Mangiapane/Coleman/Sharangovich. And that's only if they conclude they won't be able to retain Sharangovich imo. 

 

Flames are in for some pain whether they try to rebuild or retool, that doesn't mean they should at least try to be competitive. 

 

Move out Weegar, Mangiapanne,  Markstrom, Andersson, Tanev, Hanifin, Kuzmenko retain on Backlund if you have to in his final year and send him to a contender. SIGN interim vet players on short deals to allow cap flexibility throughout the rebuilding years. They’re fucked with Kadri and Huberdeau so it makes no sense to hold onto guys who could dramatically increase the speed of a rebuild. Take oh someones deadweight to send guys on long term deals out and acquire as many picks and prospects as possible.

Just look at how far behind Calgary is from their draft results the last 10 years. They will take a millennium to rebuild if they half ass it. Shit or get off the pot. They have guys with value that could help turn things around long term. Every player i listed is 27+ there may be 2-3 great seasons left and then its all downhill and declining value. They should be jumping all over it while the value is high and talent in their system is low.
 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Do you think Suter, Cole, and Blueger were bought at bargains because they thought Vancouver would be a contender?  They don't need the best players on the market - they just need the right guys that fit into Huska's system and they'll do just fine.

 

I think part of it is this is a much more desirable city to live in. 

[AnthonyG]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think part of it is this is a much more desirable city to live in. 

 I cant remember the players, but when they talked about NTCs and Canadian markets on spittinchiclets Vancouver was the only team that players would leave off their list because of how nice of a place it is to live. 

[Miss Korea]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think part of it is this is a much more desirable city to live in. 

 

I don't understand what you're trying to suggest here.  Are you trying to tell me NOBODY will sign with Calgary just because the city is cold?  Even though they have a lot of roster space and cap space?  So after they trade Hanifin and Tanev, they're just gonna fail to sign anyone in the summer?