Fighting In NHL - POLL

[Goal_thecup]

4 hours ago, tas said:

I voted for "remove at all cost" but that doesn't really describe my view. 

 

it's something that had a purpose historically, but shouldn't have. there never should have been a need for it. adults teach their children to settle their differences with words rather than resorting to violence. adults teach their children that sportsmanship is important. adults are hypocrites. 

 

the league and referees have a role to play, because the culture around the sport has always included the concept of 'just letting them play', players policing themselves as much as possible within reason, answering to The Code. referees need to call an honest game and the league needs to harshly punish predatory plays, provide a disciplinary deterrent that hurts worse than a fist in the face.

 

from the '90s until early 2010s, I liked a hockey fight as much as the next guy. gino, tim hunter, shawn antoski, scottie walker, brash, mayday, bert, jovo, juice, ryp, I loved them all.

 

by the time we got to darcy hordichuk, I no longer appreciated the goon, the enforcer, staged fights, but i still appreciated an honest, organic fight between guys who could play. but with everything we've learned, throughout the 2010s in particular, it just made it harder and harder to watch as time has gone on. at some point along the way, I was forced to evaluate why I found two men punching each other in the face entertaining and recognized it as a character defect within myself and decided to fix it. 

 

luckily the players seem to recognize it too. fights have been trending up a little bit the last couple years after steady decline for a long time, and that's an interesting thing to pay attention to and analyze, but on the whole it seems like fewer and fewer of these athletes are inclined to want to hurt one another. it's not only less fighting we've seen over time, but fewer dirty plays. things are taking care of themselves. by the time the league bans fighting (I wouldn't be shocked if it's within the next decade), it will have more or less weeded itself out already. 

 

it may take away from the physicality and excitement of watching the game, but these guys are human beings first, athletes second, and entertainers last, and exercising some empathy, humanity and compassion will serve to improve everyone. 

You lost me at "shouldn't have"; pro hockey is not some kind of playground recess activity.

The rest of it seems psycho-babble to me or some kind of pc mush.

moosh-moosh:  

[-dlc-]

Thing is, if you watch "The Enforcers" the players themselves tell you why fighting is a necessary part of hockey. Without it, you get the dbags running around cheap shotting everyone and potentially injuring players. You need a deterrent, especially in a league where the refs can often miss (aka overlook) things that should be called but aren't.

 

I do consider the impact of concussions and it's a fine line for me....either way is ok. But there is a price to pay if there isn't fighting. Guys getting slammed to the ice is also a risk so players doing that need to know they may have to answer the bell.

 

As for the "violence" in a game....it's there in different shapes and forms. You get spears, slashes, violent hits into the boards....fighting's just an extension of that. A more transparent form of it.

 

I hate violence, period...so fighting makes me cringe as I do hold my breath and hope no one's seriously injured. But it isn't as easy as "just stop". It's a physical sport that calls for hitting...which can lead to...fighting. 

[R3aL]

Thing about hockey fights that bug me now are that helmets stay on, unless they come off naturally.

 

I understand why to protect heads when they fall.

 

But I couldn't imagine punching someone in the helmet or hitting the visor.

 

It makes me think if helmets are staying on gloves should stay on id rather risk little cuts around the cheek and chin then destroying my hand.

 

I haven't heard a players perspective on this one who actually fights a lot but it seems crazy to me to be punching the helmets/visors

[tas]

49 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

You lost me at "shouldn't have"; pro hockey is not some kind of playground recess activity.

The rest of it seems psycho-babble to me or some kind of pc mush.

moosh-moosh:  

thank you for highlighting my point. 

[Maninthebox]

I opted for choice 3, although 'staged fights' would require a more distinct definition.

 

If both players agree to fight then the opinions of the drooling masses are irrelevant; particularly in Canada where this is legal. A case could be argued against it in the USA where it is only legal in two states.

[Steamer4GM]

2 hours ago, Goal_thecup said:

Seriously, I do not understand what is going on here; how do you define staged fights?

I'm no expert on the term but have  always understood it to mean the fights that happen before the puck has even been dropped or when the coaches both put out a guy that wouldn't normally be on a given line or matchup just so that they can have a fight that's more about the hype around the players, asserting dominance or revenge for something that happened in a previous game. Essentially any fight that isn't a result of the flow of the play in the current game I guess

[chris12345]

So soft...what's next mandatory half shields?

 

Oh wait they did that.

 

It's fair to say I want old school line brawls.

Edited October 28, 2023 by chris12345

[Sharpshooter]

5 hours ago, The Social Hermit said:

I don’t believe you respect women’s hockey. You, perhaps, respect the Olympics and world championships, but you do not respect women’s hockey. 

Let’s not assume we know about others based on a post or two. 
 

Attack the idea, not the Member. 
 

Thanks. 
 

[tas]

2 hours ago, chris12345 said:

So soft...what's next mandatory half shields?

 

Oh wait they did that.

 

It's fair to say I want old school line brawls.

I bet you're that guy who's too cool for seatbelts, too. 

[chris12345]

57 minutes ago, tas said:

I bet you're that guy who's too cool for seatbelts, too. 

So much fun!

 

I bet you get rowdy at the library on Saturday and whisper.

 

I mean look I get it. Nag nag nag saves lives, injuries, careers, all great stuff. 

 

I don't have to like it.

[Wiggums]

3 hours ago, tas said:

I bet you're that guy who's too cool for seatbelts, too. 

 

I bet you're the guy who never played a sport in his life

[tas]

Just now, Wiggums said:

 

I bet you're the guy who never played a sport in his life

3 organized, countless pickup. 

[AatuD2]

You guys realize that a clean player like Petey or even a pest like Hoglander can choose to go their whole career without HAVING to fight? 

 

Players want to fight.  

 

Hockey is going to lose tons of interest as more fighting and physicality disappears. 

 

You talk to any Detroit and Colorado fans, and they'll tell you about their rivalries with each other as the high points. Detroit vs Pittsburgh will be an afterthought. 

 

The game has done a great job of cleaning up dirty hits, but we have a danger of it swinging too far the other way. 

 

Let the players play. 

[AatuD2]

23 hours ago, The Social Hermit said:

Hockey is the only major sport that allows fighting. It’s also the only major sport that has a significant number of young players accused of rape. 

 

 

What a bunch of nonsense. 

 

Seems like Hollywood has a rape issue too, were the execs beating each other up in the casting studios? 

 

Correlation does not mean causation. 

[Squirter]

I want bench clearing brawls back. That’s where I stand regarding fighting. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

The problem for me comes from the fact that when you let players police themselves, they overdo it often. I'm for fighting, but when a clean hit is laid out and 3 guys jump the player for making a clean play, then you know there's a problem with giving players the power to police the game themselves.

 

- My .02$ 

[Gawdzukes]

7 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

The problem for me comes from the fact that when you let players police themselves, they overdo it often. I'm for fighting, but when a clean hit is laid out and 3 guys jump the player for making a clean play, then you know there's a problem with giving players the power to police the game themselves.

 

- My .02$ 

 

Man do I ever hate that. It's such bad sportsmanship to fight someone because they laid a player out out with a nice clean hard hit.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

8 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Man do I ever hate that. It's such bad sportsmanship to fight someone because they laid a player out out with a nice clean hard hit.

 

Waters down the actual meaning of a fight in my opinion. At that point it just feels like insecurity on the part of the team jumping the player, for doing his job. It's why I find the Oilers in particular, to be such a laughable franchise. 

[Goal_thecup]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

 

Waters down the actual meaning of a fight in my opinion. At that point it just feels like insecurity on the part of the team jumping the player, for doing his job. It's why I find the Oilers in particular, to be such a laughable franchise. 

Certainly got a good laugh or ten(!) when the Oilers jumped Gyro Gear-Loose Himself (Myers) after he laid that nice clean hit on Duncan's Donut.

[IBatch]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:37 AM, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

You'll never see fighting like this anymore. The enforcers in today's game is gone

Is that Joey Kocur? 

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Man do I ever hate that. It's such bad sportsmanship to fight someone because they laid a player out out with a nice clean hard hit.

Say that now.   But if EP or QHs gets taken out on a stretcher, or injured, doubt you will be in the majority. 

[OldFaithfulcap]

I like that it's part of hockey. It's more real now as others have said without each team having a goon. Players choose to enter into it so i'm alright with it, beats the cheap shots that other sports have.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Say that now.   But if EP or QHs gets taken out on a stretcher, or injured, doubt you will be in the majority. 

I don't know if you were following the exchange, but we were talking about how every clean hit is getting challenged now, even those where the player bounces right back up. Of course targeting stars is a no-go, but hitting is part of the game. Jumping someone every time they do so, is not. 

[IBatch]

31 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I don't know if you were following the exchange, but we were talking about how every clean hit is getting challenged now, even those where the player bounces right back up. Of course targeting stars is a no-go, but hitting is part of the game. Jumping someone every time they do so, is not. 

Oh - nope thanks.    Know Soucy's clean hits often result in having to drop them.   And yes stars should be off-limits unless a team is targeting your's in which case open season.   And yes I get the conversation now.  Noticed this as well the past couple seasons.   It's kind of silly - thank you for clarifying.   Total agreement.  

[IBatch]

20 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Man do I ever hate that. It's such bad sportsmanship to fight someone because they laid a player out out with a nice clean hard hit.

Sorry Gawdzukes - my bad.   Don't think it's bad sportsmanship myself, as in the past.   Recent future yes, clean hits almost have to be an art form now.   They have been recording "hits" for a long time now, that used to be called "finishing your check".   Don't mind that head hunting has been removed from the game.