PGT - Canucks-3: NYRefs-4: Shit happens.

[-dlc-]

3 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

Maybe relax with a tall can of Miller?

 

Deb - as a mod, is it okay on CFF to reply to someone with the stereo to the face STFU gif?

 

asking for a friend…

We don't call penalties around here.

[Smashian Kassian]

I love the offense Soucy is bringing, I know he hit double digits once in Seattle but I wasnt expecting him to be as good & confident a shooter as he is.

 

Even if hes playing #5 mins I think hes providing good value given his role on the PK

[Dr. Crossbar]

Just now, Smashian Kassian said:

I love the offense Soucy is bringing, I know he hit double digits once in Seattle but I wasnt expecting him to be as good & confident a shooter as he is.

 

Even if hes playing #5 mins I think hes providing good value given his role on the PK

 

He put us back in the game last night despite the refs.

[Goal_thecup]

8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Fuck the Rangers. 

Now that is classic literature.

[Huggy Bear]

1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I love the offense Soucy is bringing, I know he hit double digits once in Seattle but I wasnt expecting him to be as good & confident a shooter as he is.

 

Even if hes playing #5 mins I think hes providing good value given his role on the PK

Would love to see stats on how many shots he gets on net. Seems very high.

[Canuckle]

Just now, -dlc- said:

It does matter. I'm talking specifically about a tripping call that was missed and you're muddying the waters with a bunch of unrelated stuff.

 

I understand and support not everything being called...but tripping usually is. 

 

I'm talking about tripping... and every other infraction that may occur in a given game.  Doesn't so matter the particular infraction, but rather the situation that matters most

 

Certain prohibited acts in certain games simply aren't going to get called, and nor should they in certain cases in certain ways... especially when it comes to 3 on 3 OT when the expectation is the refs put their whistles away.  This stuff just so subjective that it's hard to give any concrete answer you're looking for... because nobody can.  And anyone who thinks they can is wrong. There's just more to NHL hockey than "you did a bad thing, you get penalty." But we have to discuss all the shit that  @Gawdzukes and I are talking about to get that part.

 

But apparently it's all just a "bunch of unrelated stuff" and "muddying the waters."  ?   Not sure we're gonna get anywhere here if we can't flip the rock over and look at what's underneath.

[Huggy Bear]

2 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

We don't call penalties around here.

Well played. That’s like when a good comic comes back to the original bit. 
 

That was quick.

[Canuckleheads Fan]

5 hours ago, stawns said:

Because games are already faaaar too long.

I'm not suggesting extra challenges, just open the one each team gets to missed penalty calls leading to goals. How often would it be used? Almost never, but it cold have fixed that brutal no-call last night. And I disagree, games seem to be clipping along at a better pace than in past years with even more rules punishing teams for icing the puck.

[Goal_thecup]

And that's it I guess.

And so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes,

But where its goin' no-one knows, and so it goes - Nick Lowe (maybe with Dave Edmonds together in Rockpile, a fun album).

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 minute ago, Goal_thecup said:

And that's it I guess.

And so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes,

But where its goin' no-one knows, and so it goes - Nick Lowe (maybe with Dave Edmonds together in Rockpile, a fun album).

 

 

You are ... cruel to be kind.

[Huggy Bear]

Wow. MacKinnnon just gave it to the refs and they threw the book at him. 3-0 Sabres

Edited October 30, 2023 by Huggy Bear

[Goal_thecup]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

You are ... cruel to be kind.

Its a very good sign.

[coolboarder]

3 hours ago, Canuckle said:

The action of a trip is a trip but when I say that I mean not all trips are  infractions.  Context; subjectivity; a game played in the grey.

Stop giving excuses to empower those that lacked accountable and say, oh that is gray area, No penalty be called according to time and the score of the game.  That is slippery slope and opens the door for corruptions.

[Huggy Bear]

1 minute ago, coolboarder said:

Stop giving excuses to empower those that lacked accountable and say, oh that is gray area, No penalty be called according to time and the score of the game.  That is slippery slope and opens the door for corruptions.

[Gawdzukes]

53 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

If you break a rule in a rule book it should be called.

 

Or you may as well throw the rule book out.

 

And, quite honestly, I'm ok when they do that. I'd prefer they don't make calls...the flow of the game is better. But if you're calling 5 on 3's and calling some too many men but not others, and then decide not to make a call in OT, it's inconsistent. Either do or don't. 

 

To allow refs to pick and choose really isn't the answer. 

 

End of story.

 

They've tried calling everything several times before and even mandated it with special seminars for the referees. It's never stuck though. It turns the game to crap and eventually they go back to being subjective again. I think allowing the refs to pick and choose is a better option than some AI/video crew calling every possible infringement. The entire game would be one 60 minute power play. I also prefer when the ref's throw away the rule book ... it makes for great hockey.

 

43 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

I already provided the example of a puck battle with a group in the corner where illegal acts knowingly happen and go uncalled. Trips and everything else. I think that explains the larger context being discussed here?

 

Hmm... I feel like you're looking for this cut and dry, black and white answer and you really aren't going to get it. So so many things are context dependant on a given play in a given situation, and while some prohibited act may be listed in the good book, it doesn't neccessarily mean it's going to get called, whether intentionally or unintentionally. And frankly nor should it.

 

It happens all the time. A little hook on the winger on the first dump in behind the play. No call necessary but a verbal warning may be given. A little mutual holding here and there as the teams feel each out in the early goings, that's acceptable to a certain degree as well as dependent on the ref... the ref will give most players a little leeway at the start of a game and warn players if they are pushing the limits in any one area too far. For the most part the refs will try not to call any penalties and decide games unless they are flagrant, or affect a goal scoring opportunity. Of course any obvious trips, hooks, slashes, or constant infringement need to be called but the referees will let them play, and this includes ignoring the odd trip, hook, or hold that really don't warrant a penalty within the context.

 

Lots of times a player will accidently foul a player behind the play as well. Say he gets his stick caught in his skates by accident, or he unintentionally interferes with a player backchecking. In these situations it's technically a penalty but sometimes it's better to play on with a warning that future infractions will incur a penalty.

 

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

Stop giving excuses to empower those that lacked accountable and say, oh that is gray area, No penalty be called according to time and the score of the game.  That is slippery slope and opens the door for corruptions.

I'd bet only about 10% of the infractions that happen during a game are actually called.......and I'd bet that's a high estimate

[Goal_thecup]

2 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

Stop giving excuses to empower those that lacked accountable and say, oh that is gray area, No penalty be called according to time and the score of the game.  That is slippery slope and opens the door for corruptions.

What do you think about this?

If the players are clever enough to fool the officials, and get away with infractions without being called, the goals should stand.

Elan and chicanery are classic reasons for some athletes' successes.

 

[Canuckle]

18 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

Stop giving excuses to empower those that lacked accountable and say, oh that is gray area, No penalty be called according to time and the score of the game.  That is slippery slope and opens the door for corruptions.

Bullshit.

 

NHL Hockey is 100% played in the grey.  If it wasn't you'd be watching fucking Novice hockey where there are no hits, no battles or anything else where everything gets called. That's not how the game works.

 

Infractions aren't always penalty worthy and the context of the play  matters, ESPECIALLY in 3 on 3 OT where the expectation is the refs put their whistles away. But go ahead and ignore reality if you have to.

 

This goes to you too @Huggy Bear

 

 

Secondly, do you think more reviews will solve this "corruption" issue on the ice? Christ, giving the war room in Toronto more power to overturn goals on missed penalties is blasting that door for potential corruption wide open given how subjective penalties are in the first place.  No thanks.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Canuckle

[Canuckle]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

I'd bet only about 10% of the infractions that happen during a game are actually called.......and I'd bet that's a high estimate

Exactly.  Imagine a game 100% called by the rulebook. Lol

 

The game would be a fucking joke.

[Canuckle]

20 minutes ago, Huggy Bear said:

[Huggy Bear]

[Canuckle]

1 minute ago, Huggy Bear said:

[Dr. Crossbar]

[Goal_thecup]

4 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Bullshit.

 

NHL Hockey is 100% played in the grey.  If it wasn't you'd be watching fucking Novice hockey where there are no hits, no battles or anything else where everything gets called. That's not how the game works.

 

Infractions aren't always penalty worthy and the context of the play  matters, ESPECIALLY in 3 on 3 OT where the expectation is the refs put their whistles away. But go ahead and ignore reality if you have to.

 

This goes to you too @Huggy Bear

 

 

Secondly, do you think more reviews will solve this "corruption" issue on the ice? Christ, giving the war room in Toronto more power to overturn goals on missed penalties is blasting that door for potential corruption wide open given how subjective penalties are in the first place.  No thanks.

 

 

You're getting a bit more traction @Canuckle.

Context always matters and hockey is chaotic.

My dad, a good athlete himself, did not like to watch hockey on TV.

"Too disorganized for me."  Hockey is a game of mistakes.

And refs make them too, corrupt or not, it is better than some strict algorithm. 

More stringent and constant, post-game reviews of referees' performances on the ice, and monitoring career promotions and remunerations, etc should help clamp down on corruption. Audit the bastards!

[coolboarder]

1 hour ago, Canuckle said:

 

I'm talking about tripping... and every other infraction that may occur in a given game.  Doesn't so matter the particular infraction, but rather the situation that matters most

 

Certain prohibited acts in certain games simply aren't going to get called, and nor should they in certain cases in certain ways... especially when it comes to 3 on 3 OT when the expectation is the refs put their whistles away.  This stuff just so subjective that it's hard to give any concrete answer you're looking for... because nobody can.  And anyone who thinks they can is wrong. There's just more to NHL hockey than "you did a bad thing, you get penalty." But we have to discuss all the shit that  @Gawdzukes and I are talking about to get that part.

 

But apparently it's all just a "bunch of unrelated stuff" and "muddying the waters."  ?   Not sure we're gonna get anywhere here if we can't flip the rock over and look at what's underneath.

Have you ever notice, any type of tripping is considered cheating, trying to gain advantage positionally and a loss of potential scoring chance due to positioning?  If the league initiate a crackdown on tripping, I will bet you that players will be making conscious effort not to trip and I would bet you tripping infraction, even if they missed it will be vastly reduced.  Every time the league initiate a crackdown of any kind, they tend to focus on wrong priority, obstruction or high sticking or even slashing.   Battles around the board and guys will try to trip each other and if the ref calls this even if it is not a scoring chance, it is a 50/50 battles and tripping will happen and guys will try to gain advantage using accident on purpose along the board, I would bet you that sticks and legs locked along the board will not be crossed anymore.  I hate the leg locks with the puck being stuck trying to free the puck, I think it needs to be made illegal and call it tripping attempts. After the 50/50 battles, I have seen that puck that is long gone and players still trip/hold them on purpose so that they do not join the rush, gaining position ahead and ref typically don't even call that and is considered non-call gray area and I hate that type of tactics often used by defensive team.  

 

Any type of tripping is considered a preventing scoring chance from elsewhere and losing his position to defend even away from the puck.  I suppose that is called interference penalty is also a part of tripping but they do not even call that tripping and let them get away with it.  Most often, the tripping calls tend to be players losing their possession with the puck but not tripping calls away from the play in term of tactical advantage.  When they call it interference penalty, it is kind of confusing because there are many different type of interference, it can be holding or taking him down using tripping but called it interference on a key area, whether it be getting in position in a hole that is taken down. 

 

Now, try that in basketball where they crack down any fouls away from the play, it resulted in an improved offense flow.  Basketball has made a right call by cracking this down with fouls away from the ball to gain advantage.  Hockey needs to be made notice with this crackdown away in form of tripping after 50/50 battles from the play.  The player who initiate a leg lock along the board needs to be called as a tripping call even if they are both still standing.

 

Other area of infraction  is more noticeable where defending get away with it in front of the goalie, resulting a loss of scoring chance due to cheating by defenseman that is not in position to make a defensive play via the tripping accidently on purpose using his legs to get in between shooter's legs an pretend that they are trying to block a shot..  It is time for the league to focus in this area, crack down any plays that has to do with tripping because slashing/obstruction habits from 90's has been taken out of the game and the game is a lot better because of it. Tripping will be a thing of past if they choose to crack down on this one.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Exactly.  Imagine a game 100% called by the rulebook. Lol

 

The game would be a fucking joke.

 

I would be happy to watch those type of games than a muggy rugby-like slow of pace.   

 

I'd rather 100 powerplays and players cleaning up their act fast and the game will flow to a much better flow in less than a week after this crackdown.

 

21 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Bullshit.

 

NHL Hockey is 100% played in the grey.  If it wasn't you'd be watching fucking Novice hockey where there are no hits, no battles or anything else where everything gets called. That's not how the game works.

 

Infractions aren't always penalty worthy and the context of the play  matters, ESPECIALLY in 3 on 3 OT where the expectation is the refs put their whistles away. But go ahead and ignore reality if you have to.

 

This goes to you too @Huggy Bear

 

 

Secondly, do you think more reviews will solve this "corruption" issue on the ice? Christ, giving the war room in Toronto more power to overturn goals on missed penalties is blasting that door for potential corruption wide open given how subjective penalties are in the first place.  No thanks.

 

 

 

Ever heard of a clean hit, open-ice or timely hits?   That's how you play which is legal but what is not legal, trying to slow guys down because he is out of position, after a 50/50 battles, he then hold his man down due to locked legs and the odd man rush potential is neutralized.