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Sharpshooter

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Goal_thecup All-Star

Goal_thecup

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

Have you ever notice, any type of tripping is considered cheating, trying to gain advantage positionally and a loss of potential scoring chance due to positioning?  If the league initiate a crackdown on tripping, I will bet you that players will be making conscious effort not to trip and I would bet you tripping infraction, even if they missed it will be vastly reduced.  Every time the league initiate a crackdown of any kind, they tend to focus on wrong priority, obstruction or high sticking or even slashing.   Battles around the board and guys will try to trip each other and if the ref calls this even if it is not a scoring chance, it is a 50/50 battles and tripping will happen and guys will try to gain advantage using accident on purpose along the board, I would bet you that sticks and legs locked along the board will not be crossed anymore.  I hate the leg locks with the puck being stuck trying to free the puck, I think it needs to be made illegal and call it tripping attempts. After the 50/50 battles, I have seen that puck that is long gone and players still trip/hold them on purpose so that they do not join the rush, gaining position ahead and ref typically don't even call that and is considered non-call gray area and I hate that type of tactics often used by defensive team.  

 

Any type of tripping is considered a preventing scoring chance from elsewhere and losing his position to defend even away from the puck.  I suppose that is called interference penalty is also a part of tripping but they do not even call that tripping and let them get away with it.  Most often, the tripping calls tend to be players losing their possession with the puck but not tripping calls away from the play in term of tactical advantage.  When they call it interference penalty, it is kind of confusing because there are many different type of interference, it can be holding or taking him down using tripping but called it interference on a key area, whether it be getting in position in a hole that is taken down. 

 

Now, try that in basketball where they crack down any fouls away from the play, it resulted in an improved offense flow.  Basketball has made a right call by cracking this down with fouls away from the ball to gain advantage.  Hockey needs to be made notice with this crackdown away in form of tripping after 50/50 battles from the play.  The player who initiate a leg lock along the board needs to be called as a tripping call even if they are both still standing.

 

Other area of infraction  is more noticeable where defending get away with it in front of the goalie, resulting a loss of scoring chance due to cheating by defenseman that is not in position to make a defensive play via the tripping accidently on purpose using his legs to get in between shooter's legs an pretend that they are trying to block a shot..  It is time for the league to focus in this area, crack down any plays that has to do with tripping because slashing/obstruction habits from 90's has been taken out of the game and the game is a lot better because of it. Tripping will be a thing of past if they choose to crack down on this one.

 

 

 

I would be happy to watch those type of games than a muggy rugby-like slow of pace.   

 

I'd rather 100 powerplays and players cleaning up their act fast and the game will flow to a much better flow in less than a week after this crackdown.

 

 

Ever heard of a clean hit, open-ice or timely hits?   That's how you play which is legal but what is not legal, trying to slow guys down because he is out of position, after a 50/50 battles, he then hold his man down due to locked legs and the odd man rush potential is neutralized.  

Wow man.  You're really nailing it down.

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coolboarder NHL Grinder

coolboarder

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Some serious stamina in this thread. World class. 

Sure.  Stemmed out from frustration where ref let defensive teams get away with it every time we are gifted a great offensive team, 2003 playoffs, 2011 finals and current version of Canucks team and called a soft penalty on us then call nothing form other side.   Come on!  I can see it coming and history will repeat itself.

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Canuckle Top 6

Canuckle

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

Have you ever notice, any type of tripping is considered cheating, trying to gain advantage positionally and a loss of potential scoring chance due to positioning?  If the league initiate a crackdown on tripping, I will bet you that players will be making conscious effort not to trip and I would bet you tripping infraction, even if they missed it will be vastly reduced.  Every time the league initiate a crackdown of any kind, they tend to focus on wrong priority, obstruction or high sticking or even slashing.   Battles around the board and guys will try to trip each other and if the ref calls this even if it is not a scoring chance, it is a 50/50 battles and tripping will happen and guys will try to gain advantage using accident on purpose along the board, I would bet you that sticks and legs locked along the board will not be crossed anymore.  I hate the leg locks with the puck being stuck trying to free the puck, I think it needs to be made illegal and call it tripping attempts. After the 50/50 battles, I have seen that puck that is long gone and players still trip/hold them on purpose so that they do not join the rush, gaining position ahead and ref typically don't even call that and is considered non-call gray area and I hate that type of tactics often used by defensive team.  

 

Any type of tripping is considered a preventing scoring chance from elsewhere and losing his position to defend even away from the puck.  I suppose that is called interference penalty is also a part of tripping but they do not even call that tripping and let them get away with it.  Most often, the tripping calls tend to be players losing their possession with the puck but not tripping calls away from the play in term of tactical advantage.  When they call it interference penalty, it is kind of confusing because there are many different type of interference, it can be holding or taking him down using tripping but called it interference on a key area, whether it be getting in position in a hole that is taken down. 

 

Now, try that in basketball where they crack down any fouls away from the play, it resulted in an improved offense flow.  Basketball has made a right call by cracking this down with fouls away from the ball to gain advantage.  Hockey needs to be made notice with this crackdown away in form of tripping after 50/50 battles from the play.  The player who initiate a leg lock along the board needs to be called as a tripping call even if they are both still standing.

 

Other area of infraction  is more noticeable where defending get away with it in front of the goalie, resulting a loss of scoring chance due to cheating by defenseman that is not in position to make a defensive play via the tripping accidently on purpose using his legs to get in between shooter's legs an pretend that they are trying to block a shot..  It is time for the league to focus in this area, crack down any plays that has to do with tripping because slashing/obstruction habits from 90's has been taken out of the game and the game is a lot better because of it. Tripping will be a thing of past if they choose to crack down on this one.

 

 

 

I would be happy to watch those type of games than a muggy rugby-like slow of pace.   

 

I'd rather 100 powerplays and players cleaning up their act fast and the game will flow to a much better flow in less than a week after this crackdown.

 

 

Ever heard of a clean hit, open-ice or timely hits?   That's how you play which is legal but what is not legal, trying to slow guys down because he is out of position, after a 50/50 battles, he then hold his man down due to locked legs and the odd man rush potential is neutralized.  

 

Infractions are simply not some cut and dry, black and white thing people try to make them out to be. That's the core issue here.

 

So so much of the game is subjective and while the good book is a good guideline, that's essentially what it is: a guideline. Of course when there are egregious infractions we hope they'd be called with 100% accuracy. But even those cases the context of the play matters, the metaethics within that particular game also matters, not to mention were dealing with humans here and even those deemed egregious calls can be subjective. We're essentially demanding objective answers in a subjective world and it's basically impossible for the majority of things in the game.

 

 It's not like playing darts or even the NBA. NHL hockey, and hockey in general, is just a different monster we can't really apply the same logic to it as we can other sports as @Goal_thecup was pointing out above. Hockey is chaos. High speed, intense, and things are gonna happen and they aren't always going to get called regardless of how we might want to rationalize how they should.

 

I actually agree with a lot of the things you're saying there, but we still can't act like this is 100% this and that is 100% that with any real kind of certainty, know what I mean?

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Goal_thecup All-Star

Goal_thecup

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

Sure.  Stemmed out from frustration where ref let defensive teams get away with it every time we are gifted a great offensive team, 2003 playoffs, 2011 finals and current version of Canucks team and called a soft penalty on us then call nothing form other side.   Come on!  I can see it coming and history will repeat itself.

I am trying to promote the idea that we are leaving all that old 'voodoo' behind and emerging into light of fair treatment and great success.

I was 'there' for all of it, even before losing what should have been a coin toss, that wonky wheel, where the old fart (its not ageism if I am one is it?) called out Vancouver and then 'corrected' himself and said we lost.

But it is all in the past and we can't change that, and we don't want to, it is our past, and we wear it with determination to overcome it all.

The only history that is going to repeat itself is that Lord Stanley's Sterling Silver Fingerbowl will be returning to its podium in Stanley Part over and over again every year.

No jinxes.  No fixes.  No injustices.  That we cannot overcome.

Hallelujah Brothers and Sisters and (oh no, I'm too old to be correct if I continue) 'everyone',

We are Saved from all that crap.

image.png.274f47fe5e37341a1d46f2f6dffcaf08.png

 

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Lemon Face Franchise Star

Lemon Face

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Canuckle said:

 

Infractions are simply not some cut and dry, black and white thing people try to make them out to be. That's the core issue here.

 

So so much of the game is subjective and while the good book is a good guideline, that's essentially what it is: a guideline. Of course when there are egregious infractions we hope they'd be called with 100% accuracy. But even those cases the context of the play matters, the metaethics within that particular game also matters, not to mention were dealing with humans here and even those deemed egregious calls can be subjective. We're essentially demanding objective answers in a subjective world and it's basically impossible for the majority of things in the game.

 

 It's not like playing darts or even the NBA. NHL hockey, and hockey in general, is just a different monster we can't really apply the same logic to it as we can other sports as @Goal_thecup was pointing out above. Hockey is chaos. High speed, intense, and things are gonna happen and they aren't always going to get called regardless of how we might want to rationalize how they should.

 

I actually agree with a lot of the things you're saying there, but we still can't act like this is 100% this and that is 100% that with any real kind of certainty, know what I mean?

You can talk as much about how hockey is monster,hard and subjective.THAT is NOT problem.One sided refs are problem.You shit on everybody or nobody.Grey is because we making it gray with our excuses.Book is very simple.Rules also.In NBA,Raptors case in Chicago few days ago,NBA admitted that Raptors lost game thanks to refs error.At list you see that office cares.That will never happen in NHL

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Lemon Face Franchise Star

Lemon Face

Posted
Posted
Just now, Lemon Face said:

You can talk as much about how hockey is monster,hard and subjective.THAT is NOT problem.One sided refs are problem.You shit on everybody or nobody.Grey is because we making it gray with our excuses.Book is very simple.Rules also.In NBA,Raptors case in Chicago few days ago,NBA admitted that Raptors lost game thanks to refs error.At list you see that office cares.That will never happen in NHL

Come Vegas,you will see same tune,like Rangers

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IBatch All-Star

IBatch

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Tecumseh said:

RT can coach and cook. Maybe he can teach the boys? This guy is really funny for a tough guy. 

 

 

Hilarious.  He looks like pretty much every bachelor, young lad from my days.    What a beaut.  

 

As for the refs.   Been saying for years, why not go back to the one ref system?   The purpose of adding the extra ref has long passed.   They still don't have much consistency, and how the heck are these guys supposed to get a feel for who's reffing.   They wanted the game faster so removed the red line, but added a body too.   They cracked down on things they wanted out of the game, and other things on the way crept in.   Like slashing hands!   A huge code violation, and something you'd be answering to with some monster for the rest of the season, maybe a few years ... breaking fingers.   Crosby was getting slashed so often and so hard, fought back and nearly severed Methot's finger.    Then they had to crack down hard on slashing for two seasons ...

 

It's a little goofy and easily dealt with.   Give the linesman the power to call majors.   Maybe even double minors.  

 

And give half the refs  pink slips.  

Keep only the best 40.   10 per division, 20 per conference.   Have their names on their sweater, and give the guys time to get used to what sort of game you'd expect to be called.

 

Bloating the league to 80 refs is for sure a part of the problem.   Players and fans alike, used to get an idea of what to expect.   Sure they'd miss calls, but we're for the most part consistent.   Stewart was one of my favourites, because he'd let the little things go, was more like a playoff game.   He'd call things that clearly resulted as a scoring chance.   Yes we got burned at times, so did the other teams, we also got away with stuff.   Fraser was hated by some, but actually was a great ref.   Why he usually played the finals.   Van Hellomend, called it about as even as you could hope for.   Again all 3, different flavours.    
 

There should be some accountability.  We've all seen games where it definitely seems like game management, and personally feel that it's been a lot worse since they added the second ref.   Almost like he doesn't feel like he's part of the game, unless he calls something, and often it's a weak call.   Barely anything.   Not an NHL call anyways.    Nobody wants to see a 6-8 penalty game, back in the 80's-lockout, that usually meant several fights and a lot of gloves on the ice at one time, a real donny brook.    It's such a goofy thing because it's so arbitrary and subjective.   And it's sure hilarious watching Canucks games with the other teams fans sitting all around you.   They seem to think we should be penalized a lot more than I do - go figure. 

 

Give the guys a little more space, remove a ref.   It's what they wanted in the first place by removing a pass and the nuetral zone.   The "middle of the ice" is a lot more active.  Mission accomplished.   Like the god awful shoot-out, which is a skills competition...it's time to go.    If they can get rid of the redline, they for sure can give one of the linesman orange armband too.    Let him blow down plays, show the video to the "head ref" if he missed it.  

 

 

Edited by IBatch
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IBatch All-Star

IBatch

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lemon Face said:

You can talk as much about how hockey is monster,hard and subjective.THAT is NOT problem.One sided refs are problem.You shit on everybody or nobody.Grey is because we making it gray with our excuses.Book is very simple.Rules also.In NBA,Raptors case in Chicago few days ago,NBA admitted that Raptors lost game thanks to refs error.At list you see that office cares.That will never happen in NHL

It hasn't happened to date.   Little things need to be allowed.   Already too many power plays most nights.   And the hockey is tamer.    EP drew a penalty that wasn't called.   Real shame.   That is one point, that could come back to have a big effect on the season given how tight our division is now.   Bet 4-6 points will separate about as many teams jockeying for a playoff spot, and what opponent they draw, home ice etc.    We were in that group before the season started.   Bright side is, 5-2-1.    The last 3 games we've also played really well.  Proud of this team right now and that they've responded so well to Tochett's messages.    They seemed to take "soft" against PHI to heart.   Pushing all the right buttons.   

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