[Speculation] Flames Have Paused Contract Talks With Pending UFAs

[PistolPete13]

6 hours ago, RWJC said:

Flames Have Paused Contract Talks With Pending UFAs

 

October 31st, 2023 at 5:19pm CST • By Josh Erickson

 

The vibes were good in Calgary.

 

A tumultuous 2022-23 season had seemingly been cleansed from the organization with the appointments of Craig Conroy in the GM’s chair and Ryan Huska behind the bench. Players were buying in, too – with Mikael Backlund signing a three-year extension in accordance with the captaincy and extension talks kicking off with top-pairing defenseman Noah Hanifin, who said last summer he wasn’t willing to consider remaining with the Flames.

 

Then the season started, and Sportnet’s Eric Francis is now reporting the Flames have paused all extension talks with their 2024 class of UFAs, which includes Hanifin and first-line center Elias Lindholm. A 2-6-1 start has the Flames seventh in the Pacific Division and 15th in the Western Conference, only ahead of the lowly San Jose Sharks. They’ve allowed more goals in the same amount of games than the defensively-challenged Blackhawks – and even that’s with netminder Jacob Markströmrebounding, albeit slightly, from last season’s poor form. Daniel Vladar has been limited to just two starts thanks to a sieve-like .842 SV% and 4.51 GAA, however.

 

What’s worse is that two familiar refrains from last season have come back to haunt them. The team is controlling possession well, holding 53.9% of Corsi events at five-on-five and over half of all scoring and high-danger chances, but it hasn’t mattered. Star players are again underperforming, with many downright snakebitten.

 

In the second season of a seven-year, $49MM deal, Nazem Kadri has just two points through nine games and a -11 rating. 2021-22 NHL assists leader Jonathan Huberdeau, in the second season of an eight-year, $84MM deal, is barely averaging over 17 minutes per game and has two goals and three assists through nine games. Perhaps the only one of their recent big-time acquisitions is performing up to par – defenseman MacKenzie Weegar, who may have just three points but is controlling possession better than almost anyone on the team with a 57.5% Corsi share at even strength.

 

Lindholm is also one of the few doing his part, tying for the team lead in scoring with six points and averaging over 21 minutes a game, although he hasn’t been worth the rumored $9MM AAV price tag that’s been bandied about in the past few weeks. Things aren’t going well for the Flames’ other notable pending UFAs, both defensemen – Chris Tanev has been held off the scoresheet through nine contests and has a -6 rating, while Nikita Zadorov is projected to sit as a healthy scratch for Wednesday’s game against the Stars.

 

If the Flames don’t find themselves close to the playoff picture by the March 8, 2024, trade deadline, they could become one of the biggest players near deadline day in recent memory. All four of Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, and Zadorov have the pedigree to fetch anywhere between decent and extravagant returns, even if one or all is still having a down season by the time February rolls around and trade discussions begin in earnest.
 

With another strong slate of prospects expected to be available in the first round of the 2024 NHL Draft, the Flames would do well to help retool their franchise on the fly with a few high-end prospects injected into their system.

 

 

link to article:

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2023/10/flames-have-paused-contract-talks-with-pending-ufas.html#ref=home

 

[Miss Korea]

41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Give me some Zadorov please…

 

#WeAreGoldStar

 

Your obsession for defensive defencemen is comical.  Like a girl that got away and now there's a hole in your heart...

 

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Your obsession for defensive defencemen is comical.  Like a girl that got away and now there's a hole in your heart...

 

We have two of the best offensive defencemen in the NHL already on the team. What’s wrong with adding some guys who specialize in defending?  Isn’t that what we are missing right now?  Or do you think Mark Friedman and Tyler Myers can take us to the promised land? 

[Miss Korea]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We have two of the best offensive defencemen in the NHL already on the team. What’s wrong with adding some guys who specialize in defending?  Isn’t that what we are missing right now?  Or do you think Mark Friedman and Tyler Myers can take us to the promised land? 

 

Nothing at all!  But you are like a shark whenever a rumour comes up involving defensive D-men.  Pavlov's dog.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Nothing at all!  But you are like a shark whenever a rumour comes up involving defensive D-men.  Pavlov's dog.

Yeah I have an obsession with big nasty dmen. What can I say. We need more size on the backend. Love me some Lawson Crouse as well. I know these guys don’t have great WAR cards, but you need them to win a cup. 
 

Vegas was a nasty piece of business last year. And they still are today. Look how much bigger their team is than ours. Especially their defence. Zadorov would be our Nicolas Hague. Lawson Crouse would be our Mark Stone. 
 

Allvin said he was going to reward this team. Looking forward to the gifts that arrive. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Miss Korea]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yeah I have an obsession with big nasty dmen. What can I say. We need more size on the backend. Love me some Lawson Crouse as well. I know these guys don’t have great WAR cards, but you need them to win a cup. 
 

Vegas was a nasty piece of business last year. And they still are today. Look how much bigger their team is than ours. Especially their defence. Zadorov would be our Nicolas Hague. Lawson Crouse would be our Mark Stone. 
 

Allvin said he was going to reward this team. Looking forward to the gifts that arrive. 

 

Zadorov has nice numbers on his WAR card.  Crouse has okay numbers despite playing in Arizona.  

 

But my Flames target?  The ol' reliable:

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I just know if we get Tanev back he'll be on LTIR for half the time.

 

Zadorov is a nice option but my main guy would be Hanifin. In a wonky world, we acquire Hanifin and then sign Zadorov in the off-season and re-sign Cole really cheap for the bottom-6.

 

This year:

Trade whatever we want (1st + player + prospect) for Hanifin and then going into the TDL and playoffs:

Hughes - Hronek

Hanifin - Cole

Soucy - Myers

Friedman

 

Next year:

Hughes - Hronek

Hanifin - Zadorov

Soucy - Cole

[Miss Korea]

6 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

The problem is, they have 3 contracts that are completely unmovable. Huberdeau, Weegar and Kadri. They are massively overpaid considering how badly they are under performing. Imagine 8 full years of him at 10.5 million....

 

Mackenzie Weegar has proven himself to be one of the most versatile two-way defencemen in the NHL.  Aside from Hanifin, he has played with almost every single D-man on the Flames roster and excelled.  Even when he was in Florida, he was productive with or without Aaron Ekblad.

 

 

The defence is not the root cause of Calgary's problems.  It's probably the only positive thing they have going for them right now.

 

20 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I just know if we get Tanev back he'll be on LTIR for half the time.

 

Zadorov is a nice option but my main guy would be Hanifin. In a wonky world, we acquire Hanifin and then sign Zadorov in the off-season and re-sign Cole really cheap for the bottom-6.

 

This year:

Trade whatever we want (1st + player + prospect) for Hanifin and then going into the TDL and playoffs:

Hughes - Hronek

Hanifin - Cole

Soucy - Myers

Friedman

 

Next year:

Hughes - Hronek

Hanifin - Zadorov

Soucy - Cole

 

There is absolutely no way we can fit Noah Hanifin into our team - he is a top-pairing defenceman.  I wouldn't say he's particularly good at that role, but that's his role and he is going to want to get paid like one next summer.  We can't afford to pay him and Hronek.

 

On top of that, you're trying to pair him with Nikita Zadorov next year.  They've been on the same team for over two seasons now, and they haven't played a single shift together.  Why would you expect that pair to work here in Vancouver?

 

[NucksRuleYou]

Fuck the lames!

[Diamonds]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

There was zero chance we were trading our starter in a playoff position. The expansion draft ensured we couldn't keep both guys. 

 

Tanev was the only real F-up there.

I think the biggest screw up that offseason was actually prioritizing Jake over Toffoli. I actually didn't necessarily disagree with saying goodbye to Tanev, he was usually injured 1/3+ of the season and at 30 it was unclear how much longer his body would hold up, but we should have traded him rather than let him walk.

[Miss Korea]

36 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

I think the biggest screw up that offseason was actually prioritizing Jake over Toffoli. I actually didn't necessarily disagree with saying goodbye to Tanev, he was usually injured 1/3+ of the season and at 30 it was unclear how much longer his body would hold up, but we should have traded him rather than let him walk.

 

The philosophy/excuse was that the Canucks were vastly outplayed by a team (Vegas) that was quickly routed in the subsequent round.  So Benning thought it made little sense to retain that squad and expect a different result.

 

But we all know how it went down.  No offers tendered to Toffoli, Tanev, or Stecher.  No real attempt at replacing what was lost either.  Instead tried pivoting defensively by acquiring Schmidt and Hamonic.  All downhill from there.

 

I don’t think anyone anticipated Tanev to suddenly become a superior, more durable version of himself when he signed with Calgary.  But obviously Tanev liked it here.  Everyone who left that offseason liked it here and would've taken a small pay cut to stay.  The Canucks did the right thing by not trading them but did the wrong thing by letting all of them walk for no tangible reason.  Their "replacements" had no interest in playing here and checked out at the first opportunity.

 

Compared to us, the Calgary Flames made a valiant effort to re-tool two summers ago.  They replaced a disgruntled Gaudreau/Tkachuk with Huberdeau/Kadri.  They added Weegar to form a strong blueline.  On paper it should've worked, but in the end it totally flopped.  Can't fault them for trying, but now is the time to truly press the reset button and buckle up for some miserable years.  Blow it up.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Miss Korea

[Diamonds]

14 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

The philosophy/excuse was that the Canucks were vastly outplayed by a team (Vegas) that was quickly routed in the subsequent round.  So Benning thought it made little sense to retain that squad and expect a different result.

 

But we all know how it went down.  No offers tendered to Toffoli, Tanev, or Stecher.  No real attempt at replacing what was lost either.  Instead tried pivoting defensively by acquiring Schmidt and Hamonic.  All downhill from there.

 

I don’t think anyone anticipated Tanev to suddenly become a superior, more durable version of himself when he signed with Calgary.  But obviously Tanev liked it here.  Everyone who left that offseason liked it here and would've taken a small pay cut to stay.  The Canucks did the right thing by not trading them but did the wrong thing by letting all of them walk for no tangible reason.  Their "replacements" had no interest in playing here and checked out at the first opportunity.

I definitely think Stecher was a bigger loss than first thought. He was clearly a glue guy in the locker room and had a really valuable role as a #5 who also had chemistry with Edler and could play up in the lineup when injuries hit. I think that offseason showed that Benning had a very poor pulse on the locker room.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Diamonds

[cripplereh]

8 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Imagine if the Canucks kept Markstrom and traded Demko   Good call Benning. 

 

 

Haha wasn't Bennings call.

 

That is funny.

 

 

 

[Rypien-Punch]

Mackenzie Weegar is exactly the type of player this team needs. If we can somehow add him and move Myers then move Bouvillier and add a gritty, speedy versitile forward who can play up and down the line up, win fights and score the odd goal, then I think we will have a complete team. 

[Boudrias]

6 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Zadorov has nice numbers on his WAR card.  Crouse has okay numbers despite playing in Arizona.  

 

But my Flames target?  The ol' reliable:

 

Chris Tanev was a great Canuck but time has passed. No enough left to bring him back. Build the Canucks towards 2025 and that means adding some youth to the d-side and some size. Tanev is to old and plays a risky game which leads to injury. 

[Johngould21]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Chris Tanev was a great Canuck but time has passed. No enough left to bring him back. Build the Canucks towards 2025 and that means adding some youth to the d-side and some size. Tanev is to old and plays a risky game which leads to injury. 

He missed a chunk of the Flamebois playoffs last season too. Injured. The guy can't stay healthy enough.

[DownUndaCanuck]

5 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Mackenzie Weegar has proven himself to be one of the most versatile two-way defencemen in the NHL.  Aside from Hanifin, he has played with almost every single D-man on the Flames roster and excelled.  Even when he was in Florida, he was productive with or without Aaron Ekblad.

 

 

The defence is not the root cause of Calgary's problems.  It's probably the only positive thing they have going for them right now.

 

 

There is absolutely no way we can fit Noah Hanifin into our team - he is a top-pairing defenceman.  I wouldn't say he's particularly good at that role, but that's his role and he is going to want to get paid like one next summer.  We can't afford to pay him and Hronek.

 

On top of that, you're trying to pair him with Nikita Zadorov next year.  They've been on the same team for over two seasons now, and they haven't played a single shift together.  Why would you expect that pair to work here in Vancouver?

 

 

This is how good teams become great. Look at the playoffs of last year, all the final 4 teams had a 2nd pairing arguably better than most team's top pairings. This is our way in. Hughes is obviously great but boy could he use a solid defensive 2LD to take some minutes off him. We've got a fantastic 3rd pairing in Soucy-Myers and Cole is a nice temporary fix at left or right 2nd pairing, but we have no solution for 2LD really longer-term. He's a top pairing defenceman on a bad, non-playoff team, and a 2nd pairing defenceman on an elite team with a star LD.

 

Most importantly he's young, a rental and kind of available. There aren't many other decent options out there. 26 years old fits into our future of Quinn and Hronek so well and leaves a nice space for Willander to jump into on the right when he's ready.

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, Diamonds said:

I think the biggest screw up that offseason was actually prioritizing Jake over Toffoli. I actually didn't necessarily disagree with saying goodbye to Tanev, he was usually injured 1/3+ of the season and at 30 it was unclear how much longer his body would hold up, but we should have traded him rather than let him walk.

Yeah, that wasn't great either. I was SCREAMING on here to add whatever was needed to Jake while his value was high, for Bennett. Never mind Toffoli, how good would Bennett look on this team right now?

[DownUndaCanuck]

I wonder if this means they'll consider a yard sale and rebuild? It's the only sensible thing to do, unless they want to get a bit nuts and trade 1sts/defencemen for a top forward to try and help Huby and Kadri which I just don't see happening.

 

Interesting article stating they might consider retooling to be competitive for when the new arena is ready in 3-4 years.

 

Just shows what a good or bad start can mean to your entire season. If they go 10 more games at this pace surely they start getting on the phones and try to sell off their rentals.

[Miss Korea]

52 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

 

This is how good teams become great. Look at the playoffs of last year, all the final 4 teams had a 2nd pairing arguably better than most team's top pairings. This is our way in. Hughes is obviously great but boy could he use a solid defensive 2LD to take some minutes off him. We've got a fantastic 3rd pairing in Soucy-Myers and Cole is a nice temporary fix at left or right 2nd pairing, but we have no solution for 2LD really longer-term. He's a top pairing defenceman on a bad, non-playoff team, and a 2nd pairing defenceman on an elite team with a star LD.

 

Most importantly he's young, a rental and kind of available. There aren't many other decent options out there. 26 years old fits into our future of Quinn and Hronek so well and leaves a nice space for Willander to jump into on the right when he's ready.

 E0As a UFA Hanifin is going to fetch upwards of $7 million on a team that can afford him.  He is entering the best part of his career and has one big chance to bag some money.  Chicago is a perfect team that has both room and cap.  How can we afford another $7M D-man when we have to pay Hronek and Pettersson next year?

 

5 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I wonder if this means they'll consider a yard sale and rebuild? It's the only sensible thing to do, unless they want to get a bit nuts and trade 1sts/defencemen for a top forward to try and help Huby and Kadri which I just don't see happening.

 

Interesting article stating they might consider retooling to be competitive for when the new arena is ready in 3-4 years.

 

Just shows what a good or bad start can mean to your entire season. If they go 10 more games at this pace surely they start getting on the phones and try to sell off their rentals.

 

When the previous year was such a disappointment and yet you're even worse the next year, there's good reason to panic.

 

They have a lot of those players locked up so a full rebuild isn't easy to do.  Conroy needs to quickly makeover this team and find away to get his core players producing again.  Kadri and Huberdeau might not be able to hit the numbers they once had, but surely they are better than this.

 

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Chris Tanev was a great Canuck but time has passed. No enough left to bring him back. Build the Canucks towards 2025 and that means adding some youth to the d-side and some size. Tanev is to old and plays a risky game which leads to injury. 

He is too old for what?  Do the Canucks look like a rebuilding team right now?  You say Tanev is too old yet has done nothing but improve his value since he left.  If he can still make an impact defensively and stay healthy, there's no reason he can't fit back in with the Canucks.

[DownUndaCanuck]

26 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 E0As a UFA Hanifin is going to fetch upwards of $7 million on a team that can afford him.  He is entering the best part of his career and has one big chance to bag some money.  Chicago is a perfect team that has both room and cap.  How can we afford another $7M D-man when we have to pay Hronek and Pettersson next year?

 

 

When the previous year was such a disappointment and yet you're even worse the next year, there's good reason to panic.

 

They have a lot of those players locked up so a full rebuild isn't easy to do.  Conroy needs to quickly makeover this team and find away to get his core players producing again.  Kadri and Huberdeau might not be able to hit the numbers they once had, but surely they are better than this.

 

He is too old for what?  Do the Canucks look like a rebuilding team right now?  You say Tanev is too old yet has done nothing but improve his value since he left.  If he can still make an impact defensively and stay healthy, there's no reason he can't fit back in with the Canucks.

 

If we get away with Garland + 1st + Woo for Hanifin...then...

 

1) Let Beauvillier (4M) and Myers (6M) walk

2) Re-sign Hronek to a 6.5M deal

3) Re-sign Hanifin to a 7M deal

4) Re-sign Petey to an 11.5M deal

5) Re-sign Cole to a 2M deal

 

We free up 5M + 4M + 6M (15M) in cap space off-loading useless contracts.

We reduce Cole's by 1M (16M cap space)

Petey and Hronek get raises of a combined 6M

Hanifin comes in as a fresh 7M

 

Correct me if my maths is wrong but that's 13M with 16M cap space. I'm being pretty conservative there but even if Petey gets 12-13M in some unreal world and Hanifin and Hronek want 7M, we can still make that happen.

 

Just shows how much dead weight we're currently carrying. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by DownUndaCanuck

[Miss Korea]

7 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

 

If we get away with Garland + 1st + Woo for Hanifin...then...

 

1) Let Beauvillier (4M) and Myers (6M) walk

2) Re-sign Hronek to a 6.5M deal

3) Re-sign Hanifin to a 7M deal

4) Re-sign Petey to an 11.5M deal

5) Re-sign Cole to a 2M deal

 

We free up 5M + 4M + 6M (15M) in cap space off-loading useless contracts.

We reduce Cole's by 1M (16M cap space)

Petey and Hronek get raises of a combined 6M

Hanifin comes in as a fresh 7M

 

Correct me if my maths is wrong but that's 13M with 16M cap space. I'm being pretty conservative there but even if Petey gets 12-13M in some unreal world and Hanifin and Hronek want 7M, we can still make that happen.

 

Just shows how much dead weight we're currently carrying. 

 

Three letters you missed: O.E.L.  It keeps you under the cap but leaves you with very little wiggle room.

 

I dont think you need to re-sign Cole if you're picking up Hanifin.  What you'd still need is a right-handed defenceman to replace Myers.  I wonder if Bear will return to Vancouver.

[DownUndaCanuck]

19 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Three letters you missed: O.E.L.  It keeps you under the cap but leaves you with very little wiggle room.

 

I dont think you need to re-sign Cole if you're picking up Hanifin.  What you'd still need is a right-handed defenceman to replace Myers.  I wonder if Bear will return to Vancouver.

Even with OEL's penalty going up 2M there's room there. Wiggle room is made up - we currently have exactly 0 cap space, so spend right to the limit.

 

What's the point in having 2-3M in cap space during the season? Not many good teams do this.

We're going to have to re-tool this defence one way or the other next off-season with Cole and Myers getting older and their deals ending. Might as well make a play for a big gun now when he's sort of available, young and a top player who fits the rest of our good young core. There are a few nice UFAs out there next off-season but why wait until then when we're clearly winning now?

[Moeknows]

12 hours ago, Fen1010 said:

Yep,  I'm just not that stupid

 

 

hahahaha...yeah you are...

[RJCF96]

This is dumb. You can't tell me leagues are favouring American/expansion teams in the sun-belt states ahead of Canadian teams. If the other team invovle isn't the NHL's golden boy Vegas, there is a good chance the punishment would be way less severe.