Blitz-Pix Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, N4ZZY said: I know it's a business at the end of the day. But if these guys wanna stick together and play together, something's gotta give. I think the winning helps. If we were at the Benning era, not sure anyone would be willing to give any sort of "discount" to consistently lose. But might be that the organization is turning a corner, and maybe, just maybe some players might be willing to give discounts to the team to stay together. It happened with the 2011 team didn't it? Brock is younger, though than Kuzmenko, but it kinda feels like Kuzmenko is more dynamic but older. What is Kuz on pace for? Other than the Sedins I'm not entirely sure many took discounts, I feel they took fair market value in exchange for job security. Gillis offered NTC like they were going outta style IMO. It kinda handcuffed us years later with regards to rebuilding. That's kinda how I remember it anyway. Edited November 1, 2023 by Blitz-Pix 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 12 hours ago, N4ZZY said: I know it's a business at the end of the day. But if these guys wanna stick together and play together, something's gotta give. I think the winning helps. If we were at the Benning era, not sure anyone would be willing to give any sort of "discount" to consistently lose. But might be that the organization is turning a corner, and maybe, just maybe some players might be willing to give discounts to the team to stay together. It happened with the 2011 team didn't it? Brock is younger, though than Kuzmenko, but it kinda feels like Kuzmenko is more dynamic but older. What is Kuz on pace for? Brock and Kuzy contracts have 2 seasons (including the current one) to go. My hope is, by that time, one of them can be replaced with an ELC (Lekker). Right now, Tocc's preference is likely Boeser, as he is proving that he adds value to the team in other areas, besides pointing up points. Can't see PA giving out big contracts for both of them; maybe not even one of them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain insano Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 12 hours ago, N4ZZY said: I know it's a business at the end of the day. But if these guys wanna stick together and play together, something's gotta give. I think the winning helps. If we were at the Benning era, not sure anyone would be willing to give any sort of "discount" to consistently lose. But might be that the organization is turning a corner, and maybe, just maybe some players might be willing to give discounts to the team to stay together. It happened with the 2011 team didn't it? Brock is younger, though than Kuzmenko, but it kinda feels like Kuzmenko is more dynamic but older. What is Kuz on pace for? Well look no further than toronto, they had a lot of vets sign league minimum deals or 1 year deals at a bargain trying to inflate their numbers for a contract the next year, as much as we all love making fun of them we also all held our breaths as they were just shy of making it over the hump through their whole window, I could see it being our turn to land some big fish chasing cups or points 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, higgyfan said: Brock and Kuzy contracts have 2 seasons (including the current one) to go. My hope is, by that time, one of them can be replaced with an ELC (Lekker). Right now, Tocc's preference is likely Boeser, as he is proving that he adds value to the team in other areas, besides pointing up points. Can't see PA giving out big contracts for both of them; maybe not even one of them. I also think Boeser is the more likely of the two to take a discount because he's been with the Canucks a long time, they've been understanding of his situation, and he knows he was underperforming. It will be nice if Lekkerimaki is ready to replace one of them in two years, could save a lot of cap 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Diamonds said: I also think Boeser is the more likely of the two to take a discount because he's been with the Canucks a long time, they've been understanding of his situation, and he knows he was underperforming. It will be nice if Lekkerimaki is ready to replace one of them in two years, could save a lot of cap Yeah, if Brock really likes it here, I could see that happening. Course that's how you get stuck with the NMCs and NTCs. That's what you trade for those discounts. And Kuz just got to the NHL and has a short career here, so he will almost certainly be looking to max out his next contract. Lek will be replacing him. Edited November 2, 2023 by WeneedLumme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rip The Mesh Posted November 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 2, 2023 Do we have yet another super Swede almost ready for life, or a good part of it, in Vancouver? 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy animal Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 On 11/1/2023 at 12:31 PM, Blitz-Pix said: Other than the Sedins I'm not entirely sure many took discounts, I feel they took fair market value in exchange for job security. Gillis offered NTC like they were going outta style IMO. It kinda handcuffed us years later with regards to rebuilding. That's kinda how I remember it anyway. Not really, a lot of those contracts were expiring within 2 - 3 years or were moveable and they did get assets in return. Unlike the retard that acquired Brandon Sutter, Louie Ericsson, Tyler Myers etc. The NTCs that Gillis handed out, was at least deserved because most of them played above their pay grade at some point. Can't say the same about the 3 losers that I mentioned. You know what does screw up the rebuild? Trading a 1st and a 2nd for 12 million per worth of trash for the next 5 - 7 years (OEL and Garland) Oh look, AnthonyG likes your comment, how cute 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz-Pix Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, filthy animal said: Not really, a lot of those contracts were expiring within 2 - 3 years or were moveable and they did get assets in return. Unlike the retard that acquired Brandon Sutter, Louie Ericsson, Tyler Myers etc. The NTCs that Gillis handed out, was at least deserved because most of them played above their pay grade at some point. Can't say the same about the 3 losers that I mentioned. You know what does screw up the rebuild? Trading a 1st and a 2nd for 12 million per worth of trash for the next 5 - 7 years (OEL and Garland) Oh look, AnthonyG likes your comment, how cute I was referring to when the team was trying to retool/ rebuild after the 2011 & 2012 teams came up short. They did have expiring contracts coming up that were good value... but because of the NTC handed out by Mgt, there were VERY limited options as the players didn't want to be traded....unless it was to the team they wanted. Kesler vetoed any trade other than where he wanted to play. (Ducks) We could have received a better package for him if he didn't have a NTC Hamhuis vetoed being traded when he was asked by MGT because of his NTC, he ended up relenting the next season at the trade deadline. Edler was in the same situation as Hamhuis for 2 seasons and never ended up agreeing to being traded and signed where he wanted when his contract was up. So the assets we received from trading good players on good contracts were very minimal IMO I think the Canucks & most teams learned their lesson regarding NTC contracts and most started using 10 Team no-trade clauses (or something similar) to make sure they had more flexibility in player movement. I think offering NTC definitely helped Gillis get players signed to good/fair contracts but I don't know that they got much of a discount was all I was saying. Benning just tried to buy his way out of a rebuild...which I think came down from ownership. Edited November 3, 2023 by Blitz-Pix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy animal Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Just now, Blitz-Pix said: I was referring to when the team was trying to retool/ rebuild after the 2011 & 2012 teams came up short. They did have expiring contracts coming up that were good value... but because of the NTC handed out by Mgt, they were VERY limited options as the players didn't want to be traded....unless it was to the team they wanted. Kesler vetoed any trade other than where he wanted to play. (Ducks) We could have received a better package for him if he didn't have a NTC Hamhuis vetoed being traded when he was asked by MGT because of his NTC, he ended up relenting the next season at the trade deadline. Edler was in the same situation as Hamhuis for 2 seasons and never ended up agreeing to being traded and signed where he wanted when his contract was up. So the assets we received from trading good players on good contracts were very minimal IMO I think the Canucks & most teams learned their lesson regarding NTC contracts and most started using 10 Team no-trade clauses (or something similar) to make sure they had more flexibility in player movement. I think offering NTC definitely helped Gillis get players signed to good/fair contracts but I don't know that they got much of a discount was all I was saying. I dunno if id call them minimal, people here were pretty stoked about goldobin, dahlen coming here. The kesler trade had the team hampered, but the package they received was decent. Could they have gotten a better deal? Sure but you can say that about a lot of trades. I get what your saying that ntcs did help in resigning players but they were also warranted since that team was made to win now, they were consistently top 10 in the standings in the few years gillis was there leading up to 2011. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs and Podz Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 14 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said: Benning just tried to buy his way out of a rebuild...which I think came down from ownership. Yes Benning came into a tough situation but then, he proceeded to execute some of the worst trades and fa signings in canucks history. Ownership didn't necessarily ask for that. Regardless though, made a huge mistake in choosing Benning over Linden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 9 hours ago, filthy animal said: Not really, a lot of those contracts were expiring within 2 - 3 years or were moveable and they did get assets in return. Unlike the retard that acquired Brandon Sutter, Louie Ericsson, Tyler Myers etc. The NTCs that Gillis handed out, was at least deserved because most of them played above their pay grade at some point. Can't say the same about the 3 losers that I mentioned. You know what does screw up the rebuild? Trading a 1st and a 2nd for 12 million per worth of trash for the next 5 - 7 years (OEL and Garland) Oh look, AnthonyG likes your comment, how cute Yup that rebuild sure looks screwed up. its cute that you follow my activity on here. Want an autograph? Or should I get a restraining order on you? Stalkerrrrr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hogs and Podz said: Yes Benning came into a tough situation but then, he proceeded to execute some of the worst trades and fa signings in canucks history. Ownership didn't necessarily ask for that. Regardless though, made a huge mistake in choosing Benning over Linden. https://www.tsn.ca/travis-yost-how-long-should-an-nhl-rebuild-take-1.1819611?tsn-amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 23 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: https://www.tsn.ca/travis-yost-how-long-should-an-nhl-rebuild-take-1.1819611?tsn-amp That article is not a great example as Makar was a cherry on top and Pettersson was one of the first real building blocks. Colorado was not expected to be that bad that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) Rebuilding with Nearly zero valuable assets…. Countless NMC/NTC’s 2 expansion drafts a frozen cap a cap recapture no place holders to help groom the youth like when the Sedins had the WCE to slowly groom them into their roles. Without the WCE the twins would have been destroyed and likely back in Sweden as it came quite close while playing under the WCE to them being considered busts and not being good enough to play in the NHL. no top 3 picks yep sure sounds like Benning had an easy job. his worst signings all came during rebuilding years, woopty fuckin doo. his RFA contracts were bargains every time. His drafting outside the top 10 better than most GMs around the league. His “worst” trade was the OEL trade, yet OEL and Myers were a top 5 shutdown pair that season, then coaching staff split them up, OEL played through injury and is over in FLA now playing quite well. Guenther is in the AHL. Who wasz drafted in the JT trade? Woopty doo I’d rather have Miller every day of the week. Tell you what @filthy animal, take back the Miller trade and the OEL trade. Would that make you happy if we undid the one “bad” trade for the one great trade? Im sure you’ll be quite happy with what you have to watch right now and for the next decade or more. Benning gave us 2 playoff appearances while trying to rebuild without any real valuable pieces to speed up the process. Kesler was our best piece and he nixed the trade to Chicago which was allegedly for Saad or Teravainen. Instead we had to make due and take Bonino and Sbisa because Kesler vetoed it last minute. Connor McDavid up to this point in his career has appeared in the playoffs just over 60%. How the fuck arent they a playoff team 100% of the time with 11 top 10 picks since 2007????????? 4 first overalls ffs!! 6 in the top 5 Edited November 3, 2023 by AnthonyG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 13 minutes ago, flat land fish said: That article is not a great example as Makar was a cherry on top and Pettersson was one of the first real building blocks. Colorado was not expected to be that bad that season. Yes that is true, but it shows that they had guys like Duchene and ROR as big pieces to move out and speed up the process of rebuilding. Whereas Vancouver didnt really have anyone of value outside Kesler. It took a failed rebuild around Duchene to regroup and almost fail around Mackinnon and Landeskog before landing Makar who was a massive piece to the puzzle. Mackinnon struggled big time. They also had 7 picks inside the top 10 going back to 2009 and 5 of which were within the top 5. This “fan” base hasnt seen a rebuild or at least the very large majority of it hasnt. They dont understand just how hard it is to rebuild and the growing pains of development. Because we have been so bloody fortunate to go from one era to the next to the next… Bure/Linden—>WCE—>Sedins There was no grooming for Pettersson and Hughes, Demko more or less was also left without much support, Markstrom was inconsistent, so we brought in Halak and Holtby as guys to help shape Demko and slowly introduce him to the role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillStrimma Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 19 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Rebuilding with Nearly zero valuable assets…. Countless NMC/NTC’s 2 expansion drafts a frozen cap a cap recapture no place holders to help groom the youth like when the Sedins had the WCE to slowly groom them into their roles. Without the WCE the twins would have been destroyed and likely back in Sweden as it came quite close while playing under the WCE to them being considered busts and not being good enough to play in the NHL. no top 3 picks yep sure sounds like Benning had an easy job. his worst signings all came during rebuilding years, woopty fuckin doo. his RFA contracts were bargains every time. His drafting outside the top 10 better than most GMs around the league. His “worst” trade was the OEL trade, yet OEL and Myers were a top 5 shutdown pair that season, then coaching staff split them up, OEL played through injury and is over in FLA now playing quite well. Guenther is in the AHL. Sharangovich? Woopty doo I’d rather have Miller every day of the week. Tell you what @filthy animal, take back the Miller trade and the OEL trade. Would that make you happy if we undid the one “bad” trade for the one great trade? Im sure you’ll be quite happy with what you have to watch right now and for the next decade or more. Benning gave us 2 playoff appearances while trying to rebuild without any real valuable pieces to speed up the process. Kesler was our best piece and he nixed the trade to Chicago which was allegedly for Saad or Teravainen. Instead we had to make due and take Bonino and Sbisa because Kesler vetoed it last minute. Connor McDavid up to this point in his career has appeared in the playoffs just over 60%. How the fuck arent they a playoff team 100% of the time with 11 top 10 picks since 2007????????? 4 first overalls ffs!! 6 in the top 5 Please, if Allvin and Tocchet had come in after Gillis they had given the Sedins a perfect ending of their career. Allvin has showed what a GM can do and how to act as a human being with ethics and moral Benning lacked. Benning spent every penny he had in cap and it handcuffed the Canucks going forward. Beside Petey, Demko and Hughes the drafting isn’t anything to talk about. Both Petey and Hughes were BPA at the draft. Allvin would also have picked them. Now Allvin has a few picks a bit higher up in the draft that seems to be good also. But he don’t claim that he or one particular scout is the reason. Notice the difference in ethics and moral just there? Benning was crap and it trickled down the organisation. Good riddance… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 17 minutes ago, LillStrimma said: Please, if Allvin and Tocchet had come in after Gillis they had given the Sedins a perfect ending of their career. Allvin has showed what a GM can do and how to act as a human being with ethics and moral Benning lacked. Benning spent every penny he had in cap and it handcuffed the Canucks going forward. Beside Petey, Demko and Hughes the drafting isn’t anything to talk about. Both Petey and Hughes were BPA at the draft. Allvin would also have picked them. Now Allvin has a few picks a bit higher up in the draft that seems to be good also. But he don’t claim that he or one particular scout is the reason. Notice the difference in ethics and moral just there? Benning was crap and it trickled down the organisation. Good riddance… 1) LMFAO based on what? 2) Rachel Doerrie, the pride thing, hiring a guy who was gambling and caught up in some serious shit…. Yea great morals and ethics alright 3) only the 3 biggest pieces needed for every single cup winning team NBD and did it from a draft position of 5th and beyond. Oh and Boeser at 23 4) you are so full of crap your eyes are brown. You ready for this next part? June 19 2017 EP ranked 7th by Bob Mackenzie not bad… pretty close to BPA right? June 19 2017 EP Ranked 17th by Pronman June 19 2017 15th by NCAS June 16 9th by Ryan Kennedy The draft analysis 7th Hockey Prospect 5th THE ONLY ONE to rank him where he was taken Dobber had him 8th ISS 20th McKeens 11th Future Considerations 8th Marek 15th EP was an off the board pick at 5th. His average rank was 11th. QH was projected right around where he was taken. Thank god JB listened to his scouting department. Its ridiculous to even argue JBs impact was negative. He literally set up the next decade and a half of Canucks hockey. All while having the pressure of the gutless media and fans like yourself crying because we are losing WHILE WE ARE REBUILDING LOLOLOL this is your mentality “we need to rebuild AND win a cup” Idk if you are aware of this but no team ever has rebuilt an entire organization in under 5 years. JB built the future, threw a few things in the cupboards in 7 years with his hands tied, flattened cap, cap recapture, 2 expansion drafts and COVID absolutely decimating our team. The one and only team to get hit like that. Playoffs were 100% achievable the last 3 seasons if it wasnt for star players playing like absolute shit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillStrimma Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 15 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: 1) LMFAO based on what? 2) Rachel Doerrie, the pride thing, hiring a guy who was gambling and caught up in some serious shit…. Yea great morals and ethics alright 3) only the 3 biggest pieces needed for every single cup winning team NBD and did it from a draft position of 5th and beyond. Oh and Boeser at 23 4) you are so full of crap your eyes are brown. You ready for this next part? June 19 2017 EP ranked 7th by Bob Mackenzie not bad… pretty close to BPA right? June 19 2017 EP Ranked 17th by Pronman June 19 2017 15th by NCAS June 16 9th by Ryan Kennedy The draft analysis 7th Hockey Prospect 5th THE ONLY ONE to rank him where he was taken Dobber had him 8th ISS 20th McKeens 11th Future Considerations 8th Marek 15th EP was an off the board pick at 5th. His average rank was 11th. QH was projected right around where he was taken. Thank god JB listened to his scouting department. Its ridiculous to even argue JBs impact was negative. He literally set up the next decade and a half of Canucks hockey. All while having the pressure of the gutless media and fans like yourself crying because we are losing WHILE WE ARE REBUILDING LOLOLOL this is your mentality “we need to rebuild AND win a cup” Idk if you are aware of this but no team ever has rebuilt an entire organization in under 5 years. JB built the future, threw a few things in the cupboards in 7 years with his hands tied, flattened cap, cap recapture, 2 expansion drafts and COVID absolutely decimating our team. The one and only team to get hit like that. Playoffs were 100% achievable the last 3 seasons if it wasnt for star players playing like absolute shit. You come with an american perspective. Petey had insane skills and it’s just the american view of size that stopped him from being higher in americans draft reports. But I’m glad you said Benning listened to his scouts. Kudos for saying I was right all along. Benning built for the future you say… How many player has Allvin brought in already? Players Benning had the oppurtunity to get but failed miserably. The rest of your post falls in Bennings moral and ethics category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllGamesAreRigged Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) The last 12 posts doesn't have the name Lekkerimaki in it Edited November 3, 2023 by AllGamesAreRigged 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 15 minutes ago, LillStrimma said: You come with an american perspective. Petey had insane skills and it’s just the american view of size that stopped him from being higher in americans draft reports. But I’m glad you said Benning listened to his scouts. Kudos for saying I was right all along. Benning built for the future you say… How many player has Allvin brought in already? Players Benning had the oppurtunity to get but failed miserably. The rest of your post falls in Bennings moral and ethics category. Bahahaha great logic Benning built the core that is crystal clear, idk how you struggle to accept that and doubt it? Allvin added the support. you come across as valuing the support more than the core. Lmao switch the timelines and tell me how your core would stack up against the rest of the league Mikheyev+Kuzmenko+Lafferty+Soucy+DeSmith Congratulations!! Im so happy Allvin could find a couple guys in the top 6 and mostly bottom 6 additions!! His impact is so much greater than JB!! Realistically Mikheyev and Kuzmenko would not have signed here without any hopes of winning a cup, thanks to the core in place courtesy of JB. JB = Burke+Nonis PA = Gillis Be thankful for JB, he found elite players that are the future and give us the best chance of winning a cup. Now PA and JR have the easy task of finding secondary scoring/role players. Not franchise players who change the game. Get your head on straight bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy animal Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Oh look, anthony with his 20000 word essay response on how jimbo rules. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs and Podz Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 11 minutes ago, filthy animal said: Oh look, anthony with his 20000 word essay response on how jimbo rules. Well... Gotta give him an 'A' for effort... Or is that an 'E' for effort? Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy animal Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 2 hours ago, flat land fish said: That article is not a great example as Makar was a cherry on top and Pettersson was one of the first real building blocks. Colorado was not expected to be that bad that season. Yup colorado for some reason had a down year and i dont think anybody new makar was going to be this good. He was ranked 8th ish range for the most part along with heiskenen and they shot up the draft boards the week of the draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Just now, filthy animal said: Yup colorado for some reason had a down year and i dont think anybody new makar was going to be this good. He was ranked 8th ish range for the most part along with heiskenen and they shot up the draft boards the week of the draft I can actually say I did I am 90% sure that it was my back and forth about Makar with Forsberg the Great that finally got him banned. I saw Makar for about 18 months and every single time he was on the ice he was the best player on any team at any position. I was screaming for him or to move up to get him. Sure am not sad about Petey but was fuming Colorado got him to play with Mackinnon and Raantanen for a single down year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy animal Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hogs and Podz said: Well... Gotta give him an 'A' for effort... Or is that an 'E' for effort? Lol! Lol I was really looking forward to his graphs, pie charts on how oel is a norris candidate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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