[PGT] Coilers at Canucks

[John.Tallhouse]

2 hours ago, Goal_thecup said:

In my muddled morning mind,

I am musing that Myers earned every penny for the retribution on Duncan's Donut.

 

Need coffee. And, where the hell is the GDT?

I am jonesing for a game day thread. Too early?  Psshaw!

 

@John.Tallhouse is on the GDT Sign-Up Thread for today's game.

I am really looking forward to seeing what he comes up with as his posts are awesome.

 

No pressure John, we're still beating the hell out of the old PGT, lol.

Have to keep it clean in there; the New Centurions are running rampant, stomping on the Un-PC.

Tomorrows game ! I’ll have something up by this evening tho !  

[Jaimito]

All three opponents on a back to back playing Nux 

 

Sens, leafs, Habs. 

 

No excuses.  Sweep this road trip. 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, LillStrimma said:

He had damn fine scouts.

But he didn't get the support, organisation, coaches, coordination between AHL/NHL and so on.

Benning only had scouts that he listened on for drafting it seems. As Allvin listens to his scouts.

But Allvin does all the other things a GM should do.

There is a lot of speculation in amongst all of this.... none of us know, what info he got from his scouts and who he listened to...

 

Most importantly he has a president with zero experience followed but no president...  And yes he probably did get somewhat lost, because he tried to do too much himself..... that's where a President could have came in handedly....

 

I'm a huge Allvin fan for turning this team into something special... his group of coaches is exceptional, and he knew exactly the type of coach he wanted.

If you compare the level of coaches at Canucks now, with the coaches under Benning it's night and day.... why is that? was it Benning didn't know any better? Was Lindens lack of knowledge reason for the Willie Desjardins hire or the Travis Green with Baumer as his assistant?

Was it owners, who didn't want to spend on the coaching staff or Benning?

Again a President could have helped with that instead of the defensive gong show under Baumgartner... 

 

There's a lot of speculation going on. Only thing that's a definite is, Canucks are doing much better now under JR/PA and the top coaches behind the bench and during training.

 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

The OEL buyout is completely on Allvin.  Under a good defensive system, he's showing he's still the player he was.  Allvin could have waited even a year and had a far, far better outcome......whether it was a buyout, trade etc.

 

Not under Rick Tocchet (imho).  That was one of the "excuses" for his downgrade in performance in Arizona after that solid start to his career.

[kilgore]

10 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Just bad excuses for Benning.

Benning didn’t have the mind set to be a GM.

 

If Allvin(and JR) taken over after Gillis we had not got the drama queen stories around Benning and not the ”blame Gillis”-fans that have littered the CDC forum.

 

They had got the organisation right. Make sure that Uticas and Canucks coaches were on the same page. And definately not hiring Green and sacked the coach at Utica as soon as they were reports of mishandling of prospects. This is a multlmillion dollar corporation. Garbage gets tossed away asap. As Benning was more familiar with garbage he didn’t get rid of it when things were bad.

 

Allvin had got the support players in right away. Not complaining about the hands tied behind his back.

Benning actually tied Allvins hands behind his back with OEL and other bad contracts.

Did that stop Allvin? 
Allvin got a top RHD very quick because he knew what to do.

Did Benning seems to do that? 
Benning got Miller but Miller could be a pest on his own team until Tocchet came in and commanded respect.

So now we have a team. Not some disjointed parts that click some times but a few injuries and it went sour.

 

Now we even have a lot of players that is backup. All this has Allvin done in less than two seasons.

I truly believe that this team can win even if two of our core players is missing because the support players and Tocchets system is so good.

 

 

The whitewashing of Benning is pathetic.  The idea that one day.....we will look back and realize that he was actually brilliant because he was GM when we landed Petey and Hughes. Forgetting that Hughes was a no brainer where he was, and if Benning had gotten his way Cody Glass (who has zero points so far this season) would be on our third line. Luckily Gradin especially, but also Brackett, Delorme, and basically the whole amateur scouting department twisted his arm to pick Petey. 

 

In eight years, when you only make the playoffs twice and bow out early, you'd better land at least a few good prospects. 

Draft guru Benning had more blown first, second round picks, or traded away picks, or didn't develop picks, than successful picks.

 

But the point is a GM's job is more than draft day.  In every other area of his job he failed.  His perpetual retool with badly scouted additions that he overpaid drained the team of cap options to re-sign core pieces. Then had to get rid of his mistakes for pennies on the dollar.  He spent a whole year trying to re-sign Markstrom to the detriment of talking to Tanev or Tofolli. He couldn't chew gum and chew gum at the same time.  If he'd gotten his way, we'd have the declining Marky here, and we'd have watched Demko play somewhere else, (probably Calgary).  That's just one example of so many bad decisions that dragged the team and its fans through the mud for almost a f'ing decade.

 

I shudder to think how much worse we'd be today if Benning had remained on.  Horvat would definitely be signed and Miller gone. OEL would be still here.  Who knows who the coach would be. Some other first time NHL coach he could keep his thumb on. 

 

I'll give credit to Francesco who has finally seen the light and gotten out of the role as GM advisor, and hired competent professional managers and let them do their jobs. His last act in his self-appointed position was hiring Boudreau on his own, saddling JR with his contract before he even started his job.  Now JR and PA have their coach and things are looking up. But  Benning's term was eight years of disfunction and frustration I don't wish on any fan.

 

 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Not under Rick Tocchet (imho).  That was one of the "excuses" for his downgrade in performance in Arizona after that solid start to his career.

Agreed, RT was a big part of that decision.  However, that has nothing to do with Benning.  That's all on Allvin

[Jaimito]

Just now, kilgore said:

 

The whitewashing of Benning is pathetic.  The idea that one day.....we will look back and realize that he was actually brilliant because he was GM when we landed Petey and Hughes. Forgetting that Hughes was a no brainer where he was, and if Benning had gotten his way Cody Glass (who has zero points so far this season) would be on our third line. Luckily Gradin especially, but also Brackett, Delorme, and basically the whole amateur scouting department twisted his arm to pick Petey. 

 

In eight years, when you only make the playoffs twice and bow out early, you'd better land at least a few good prospects. 

Draft guru Benning had more blown first, second round picks, or traded away picks, or didn't develop picks, than successful picks.

 

But the point is a GM's job is more than draft day.  In every other area of his job he failed.  His perpetual retool with badly scouted additions that he overpaid drained the team of cap options to re-sign core pieces. Then had to get rid of his mistakes for pennies on the dollar.  He spent a whole year trying to re-sign Markstrom to the detriment of talking to Tanev or Tofolli. He couldn't chew gum and chew gum at the same time.  If he'd gotten his way, we'd have the declining Marky here, and we'd have watched Demko play somewhere else, (probably Calgary).  That's just one example of so many bad decisions that dragged the team and its fans through the mud for almost a f'ing decade.

 

I shudder to think how much worse we'd be today if Benning had remained on.  Horvat would definitely be signed and Miller gone. OEL would be still here.  Who knows who the coach would be. Some other first time NHL coach he could keep his thumb on. 

 

I'll give credit to Francesco who has finally seen the light and gotten out of the role as GM advisor, and hired competent professional managers and let them do their jobs. His last act in his self-appointed position was hiring Boudreau on his own, saddling JR with his contract before he even started his job.  Now JR and PA have their coach and things are looking up. But  Benning's term was eight years of disfunction and frustration I don't wish on any fan.

 

 

What we are seeing is full alignment from owner, Prez, GM, scouts, coaches and players.  The results even better than I expected, which was optimistic.  

[AnthonyG]

38 minutes ago, Barn Burner said:

That's a no-brainer. 

 

Out of all four, Crosby is the most complete player who somehow manages to win Championships. 

 

McDiver may outpoint Sid in the end, but let's see how many Cups and Gold Medal games he's part of. 

What saved Crosby was Malkins ELC in their first cup. Had he come over to NA sooner, Crosby might not have won a cup ever. They would have lost a significant player.

Had COVID not flattened the cap, McDavid likely would have played on a much better Oilers team…. I personally think his contract had screwed him and idk if I see him winning a cup ever. By the time he is up for a new deal the cap will take a significant jump, where he will once again be at max dollars and it will take ages for the cap to catch up and by then hes either half the player he is or hes banged up by some serious injuries because the style of game he plays, is the kind that gets a career ending/altering knee on knee or his head taken off when he slows down with age

[Jaimito]

Beluger is back 

 

 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

Agreed, RT was a big part of that decision.  However, that has nothing to do with Benning.  That's all on Allvin

 

Other than giving up a 1st round pick to acquire OEL in the first place to be fair.  RT, who I must admit I had some misgivings about hiring (glad I was proven wrong) was the right guy to hire (something Benning failed to do in 7 years - hire a NHL head coach).

Edited November 8, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Jaimito]

 

 

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[Hairy Kneel]

5 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Yes the culture of the team is changing. RT transformed this team with a big attitude shift but we also backed it up by adding size like Soucy Cole. It allows our other guys to play tougher like Myers, Joshua, Miller. 

 

I don't want to mess with a good thing but I would like one more deterrent like Deslauriers in the bottom 6 along with an upgrade on Friedman. I think that would put us over the top and we could be legit contenders. 

I agree if those upgrades became available at a reasonable price, we should do that. Also we're nor desperate to trade,we can wait for teams to come to us.

[PhillipBlunt]

The Canucks are humming along beautifully and they're adding one of their best penalty killers in now. That's great news.

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

21 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Not under Rick Tocchet (imho).  That was one of the "excuses" for his downgrade in performance in Arizona after that solid start to his career.

Ya he couldn’t play for RT…

[Chickenspear]

Beauvillier needs to come out for Bleuger. 

 

Just don't scratch Högs, Rick.

[Barn Burner]

15 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

What saved Crosby was Malkins ELC in their first cup. Had he come over to NA sooner, Crosby might not have won a cup ever. They would have lost a significant player.

Had COVID not flattened the cap, McDavid likely would have played on a much better Oilers team…. I personally think his contract had screwed him and idk if I see him winning a cup ever. By the time he is up for a new deal the cap will take a significant jump, where he will once again be at max dollars and it will take ages for the cap to catch up and by then hes either half the player he is or hes banged up by some serious injuries because the style of game he plays, is the kind that gets a career ending/altering knee on knee or his head taken off when he slows down with age

That's why I hope our star players realize that in order to create a winner, they're gonna have to leave a couple mil on the table to help build the supporting cast.

 

Edmonton and Toronto are prime examples of teams built the wrong way, and what not to do.

[stawns]

17 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

 

Other than giving up a 1st round pick to acquire OEL in the first place to be fair.  RT, who I must admit I had some misgivings about hiring (glad I was proven wrong) was the right guy to hire (something Benning failed to do in 7 years - hire a NHL head coach).

With the buyout, the 1st is unfortumnate, but OEL was a legit top 2d and a team Captain at the time.......that;'s the price, as we see with Hronek.  

 

Hiring Green was a good move and was bearing fruit for the first few years.  I don't look at the current state as something apart from the Benning years, but as a continution/evolution of those years.

[LillStrimma]

25 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

The whitewashing of Benning is pathetic.  The idea that one day.....we will look back and realize that he was actually brilliant because he was GM when we landed Petey and Hughes. Forgetting that Hughes was a no brainer where he was, and if Benning had gotten his way Cody Glass (who has zero points so far this season) would be on our third line. Luckily Gradin especially, but also Brackett, Delorme, and basically the whole amateur scouting department twisted his arm to pick Petey. 

 

In eight years, when you only make the playoffs twice and bow out early, you'd better land at least a few good prospects. 

Draft guru Benning had more blown first, second round picks, or traded away picks, or didn't develop picks, than successful picks.

 

But the point is a GM's job is more than draft day.  In every other area of his job he failed.  His perpetual retool with badly scouted additions that he overpaid drained the team of cap options to re-sign core pieces. Then had to get rid of his mistakes for pennies on the dollar.  He spent a whole year trying to re-sign Markstrom to the detriment of talking to Tanev or Tofolli. He couldn't chew gum and chew gum at the same time.  If he'd gotten his way, we'd have the declining Marky here, and we'd have watched Demko play somewhere else, (probably Calgary).  That's just one example of so many bad decisions that dragged the team and its fans through the mud for almost a f'ing decade.

 

I shudder to think how much worse we'd be today if Benning had remained on.  Horvat would definitely be signed and Miller gone. OEL would be still here.  Who knows who the coach would be. Some other first time NHL coach he could keep his thumb on. 

 

I'll give credit to Francesco who has finally seen the light and gotten out of the role as GM advisor, and hired competent professional managers and let them do their jobs. His last act in his self-appointed position was hiring Boudreau on his own, saddling JR with his contract before he even started his job.  Now JR and PA have their coach and things are looking up. But  Benning's term was eight years of disfunction and frustration I don't wish on any fan.

 

 

If I tried to write down every mistake Benning did during his years as GM I would be called the second coming of AnthonyG.

It’s just so many mistakes…

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

OK now we need to get someone to drag out the pink and blue stats graphs 

 

a 36 year old Crosby is doing better to start this year, thats what. 

regardless of how one feels about McD, it's more than fair to say this start is the extreme outlier for him.

 

[Rip The Mesh]

Hey! The are moving now!

 

[Barn Burner]

5 minutes ago, Chickenspear said:

Beauvillier needs to come out for Bleuger. 

 

Just don't scratch Högs, Rick.

Beau has actually started playing better, but yeah, he can take a rest and let's get Blueger in there. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

With the buyout, the 1st is unfortumnate, but OEL was a legit top 2d and a team Captain at the time.......that;'s the price, as we see with Hronek.  

 

Hiring Green was a good move and was bearing fruit for the first few years.  I don't look at the current state as something apart from the Benning years, but as a continution/evolution of those years.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Green.  Elias was going nowhere/looking like a deer lost in headlights under Green (imho) for example.  I will grant you that Green was dealt a bad hand (personnel).

[stawns]

30 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

The whitewashing of Benning is pathetic.  The idea that one day.....we will look back and realize that he was actually brilliant because he was GM when we landed Petey and Hughes. Forgetting that Hughes was a no brainer where he was, and if Benning had gotten his way Cody Glass (who has zero points so far this season) would be on our third line. Luckily Gradin especially, but also Brackett, Delorme, and basically the whole amateur scouting department twisted his arm to pick Petey. 

 

In eight years, when you only make the playoffs twice and bow out early, you'd better land at least a few good prospects. 

Draft guru Benning had more blown first, second round picks, or traded away picks, or didn't develop picks, than successful picks.

 

But the point is a GM's job is more than draft day.  In every other area of his job he failed.  His perpetual retool with badly scouted additions that he overpaid drained the team of cap options to re-sign core pieces. Then had to get rid of his mistakes for pennies on the dollar.  He spent a whole year trying to re-sign Markstrom to the detriment of talking to Tanev or Tofolli. He couldn't chew gum and chew gum at the same time.  If he'd gotten his way, we'd have the declining Marky here, and we'd have watched Demko play somewhere else, (probably Calgary).  That's just one example of so many bad decisions that dragged the team and its fans through the mud for almost a f'ing decade.

 

I shudder to think how much worse we'd be today if Benning had remained on.  Horvat would definitely be signed and Miller gone. OEL would be still here.  Who knows who the coach would be. Some other first time NHL coach he could keep his thumb on. 

 

I'll give credit to Francesco who has finally seen the light and gotten out of the role as GM advisor, and hired competent professional managers and let them do their jobs. His last act in his self-appointed position was hiring Boudreau on his own, saddling JR with his contract before he even started his job.  Now JR and PA have their coach and things are looking up. But  Benning's term was eight years of disfunction and frustration I don't wish on any fan.

 

 

who said we'd think he was brilliant?  The foundation of this team that is so successful right now was built on the players that Benning drafted or brought in.  That's indisputable

[Bob Long]

Just now, stawns said:

regardless of how one feels about McD, it's more than fair to say this start is the extreme outlier for him.

 

 

Or it's his new path. Injuries and wear catch up to all these guys eventually.

 

I just disagree with calling him the best player right now. In some areas for sure. Not as a complete player or leader tho.