[PGT] Coilers at Canucks

[CanucksJay]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

 When I think of the black skate, I think Bure.  When I think of the white, it's Trevor

Especially the image of him and Kirk after game 6

 

 

[CanucksJay]

3 hours ago, Haddy said:

 

Woah that's an intense image. 

Somebody is very upset.... 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

5 minutes ago, snowman955 said:

Don't  drink .We are seated at opposite ends. First intermission  above escalators.?

Ah ok. Well, we can hang out. This is my first time going to the Corel Centre. I can just meet you at your seats

[snowman955]

Just now, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

Ah ok. Well, we can hang out. This is my first time going to the Corel Centre. I can just meet you at your seats

Sure

[CanucksJay]

2 hours ago, coolboarder said:

I recall my post on a old CDC forum that I suggested trading Bo Horvat for an upgrade on D help on a armchair GM thread and I was shot down immediately by others.

 

I remember when @Alflives brought up the potential of buying out OEL and we all said he was senile... Why would we buy him out and be on the hook for 8 years... 

 

Yet here we are. 

3rd place in the league lol

 

We've all had a bad take at one point or another. 

 

[bishopshodan]

24 minutes ago, stawns said:

when times were bad, Bo showed up every night, every shift.  Miller........not so much.  Anyone can lead when things are good

 

Well speak of the devil, your ears were burning wern't they Stawns?

 

I disagree, I felt Bo went invisible plenty. 

Guess we will wait and see how the next few years turn out for both players. Value/performance/leadership wise. 

 

 

[The Duke]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

Sure.  But that is one small part of a GMs job.  And any GM...even Gillis....would have picked Hughes, and hopefully succumbed to his amateur scouts pressure to take Petey over Glass.  You act like those decisions, which took up about 10 minutes of his tenure, were some kind of 4 dimensional chess moves that defined his whole employment here.

 

Along with other gems like;

"Benning inherited an absolute mess from Gillis and had to rebuild the org with his hands tied behind his back.  Allvin is able to do what he's doing precisely because Benning did what he did. "  

 

Benning had a team of recent SC finalists to wheel and deal with to improve the team or start over.   NTCs can be moved if the GM is smart. He had a young stud in Tanev to anchor the D.  Gillis also gifted him two, count em two, first round picks in his first year to get the ball rolling.

That last line is hillarious.  Allvin is able to do what he's doing all thanks to Benning? Like spend the first two years just cleaning up Benning's messes?  If even the disastrous OEL + Garland had not gone down and we'd had that first round pick back instead, Allvin would have been even further ahead.

 

 

 

Benning left JR/Allvin a franchise 1C, an elite two-way 2, a good top 6 winger, a franchise Norris-caliber D man, and a Vezina caliber goalie.  All under 30 and most in mid 20s when they took over.  
 

Those are the near-impossible pieces to just find outside the draft and about 75% of the job. 

 

He inherited Horvat, who was deemed expendable by current management because of Petey and Miller.  Horvat as a trade chip, ironically also holding more value than Benning’s best when he took over in Kesler.   It’s just two completely different scenarios to walk into.
 

Allvin and co get a ton of credit with pro scouting and what seems to be decent amateur scouting as well.  But their decision to “go for it” by signing Miller, Boeser, Mikheyev while trading for Hronek should be fairly judged against their ability to build a contender. Looking great to start this season.

 

Id argue Benning’s first job was to accumulate the big pieces he did.  Where he failed was surrounding them with a roster, prospect pool and cap flexibility to grow into a contender.  
 

Allvin and JR FWIW didn’t seem to think he had done such a poor job that they couldn’t fix the “biiiig messss” everyone loves to go on about.  
 

I would say the only grand slam they’ve hit is Hronek (ballsy move) and home run would be being able to pull Kuzmenko.   Maybe throw Tocchet in there as well - but as good as those moves are, do they match bringing in Petey, Hughes, Demko and Miller?  Maybe close but not to me.  
 

The major difference is a string of good doubles and singles in bringing in Mikheyev, PDG, Joshua, Suter, Soucy, Cole and hopefully Bleuger.

 

No doubt Allvin is doing a fabulous job in a tight margin, but the fact he’s able to do it means either Benning left him a downright nasty core, or he didn’t screw up as badly as people say… or both. 

[bishopshodan]

20 minutes ago, Barn Burner said:

Miller has "bite" to his game. As much as I wanted Bo to be that guy, he never backed it up. 

 

I really like Bo and wish him well.

 

Just think JT is better. I often campaigned for keeping both but I understood that the dollars would not permit that. 

[Barn Burner]

7 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I really like Bo and wish him well.

 

Just think JT is better. I often campaigned for keeping both but I understood that the dollars would not permit that. 

I like Bo too, but I'd choose someone with more grit everyday. 

 

Never liked how Horvat wouldn't stand up for anyone. That never happened when I played hockey. 

 

And the Laffs even had a team meeting about that same thing after the questionable play by Marchand on Llijegren.

[bishopshodan]

9 minutes ago, Barn Burner said:

I like Bo too, but I'd choose someone with more grit everyday. 

 

Never liked how Horvat wouldn't stand up for anyone. That never happened when I played hockey. 

 

And the Laffs even had a team meeting about that same thing after the questionable play by Marchand on Llijegren.

When Bo wanted to he could be a wrecking machine.

Think they called him Ox when he was coming up. Dont know what happened but he isnt' that type anymore. Still a top C in the league though.

 

I agree. I want a team that looks after each other, to a man.  'the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack.'

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

When Bo wanted to he could be a wrecking machine.

Think they called him Ox when he was coming up. Dont know what happened but he isnt' that type anymore. Still a top C in the league though.

 

I agree. I want a team that looks after each other, to a man.  'the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack.'

 

 

he doesn't even hit, which is bizarre for someone with his size. He has 6 this season so far. The hot dog guy in the stands has more. 

[48MPHSlapshot]

58 minutes ago, stawns said:

when times were bad, Bo showed up every night, every shift.  Miller........not so much.  Anyone can lead when things are good

Bo was streaky as hell. Some nights he'd look like one of he best centers in the league and an absolute powerhouse that could take over a game, and some nights he was completely invisible. Say what you want about Miller's lack of professionalism when things aren't going well, but he's produced incredibly consistently in his time here. And if he indeed did lead some sort of coup, well, we're off to the best start in franchise history, so 

[48MPHSlapshot]

15 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

he doesn't even hit, which is bizarre for someone with his size. He has 6 this season so far. The hot dog guy in the stands has more. 

That's actually nuts. Just for the sake of comparison, Miller has 30-something hits, Petey has 16. Hell, even Brock has 9. 

[spook007]

47 minutes ago, The Duke said:

 

Benning left JR/Allvin a franchise 1C, an elite two-way 2, a good top 6 winger, a franchise Norris-caliber D man, and a Vezina caliber goalie.  All under 30 and most in mid 20s when they took over.  
 

Those are the near-impossible pieces to just find outside the draft and about 75% of the job. 

 

He inherited Horvat, who was deemed expendable by current management because of Petey and Miller.  Horvat as a trade chip, ironically also holding more value than Benning’s best when he took over in Kesler.   It’s just two completely different scenarios to walk into.
 

Allvin and co get a ton of credit with pro scouting and what seems to be decent amateur scouting as well.  But their decision to “go for it” by signing Miller, Boeser, Mikheyev while trading for Hronek should be fairly judged against their ability to build a contender. Looking great to start this season.

 

Id argue Benning’s first job was to accumulate the big pieces he did.  Where he failed was surrounding them with a roster, prospect pool and cap flexibility to grow into a contender.  
 

Allvin and JR FWIW didn’t seem to think he had done such a poor job that they couldn’t fix the “biiiig messss” everyone loves to go on about.  
 

I would say the only grand slam they’ve hit is Hronek (ballsy move) and home run would be being able to pull Kuzmenko.   Maybe throw Tocchet in there as well - but as good as those moves are, do they match bringing in Petey, Hughes, Demko and Miller?  Maybe close but not to me.  
 

The major difference is a string of good doubles and singles in bringing in Mikheyev, PDG, Joshua, Suter, Soucy, Cole and hopefully Bleuger.

 

No doubt Allvin is doing a fabulous job in a tight margin, but the fact he’s able to do it means either Benning left him a downright nasty core, or he didn’t screw up as badly as people say… or both. 

 

Aye it easier to be good, when you have most of the hard pieces to acquire...

 

In saying that JR/PA has found good players to surround the team with and reasonable money, which mattered a lot...

 

If Benning had had a President like JR to guide him a bit more in team building/pro scouting as well as (and maybe more importantly) choosing the right coaches, he might still have been in charge... a lot of ifs and but, but still....

 

JR/PA are doing fabulously and thankfully right away, so we don't waste any more time of Petey and QH as well as Demko and Miller.

[Metal Face Doom]

6 hours ago, stawns said:

had they not made the Hronek deal, the Horvat deal would not have been good, imo.  It was the Hronek move that made it a win

You are correct.  I forgot to mention it leading to Hronek.  

[Barn Burner]

58 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

he doesn't even hit, which is bizarre for someone with his size. He has 6 this season so far. The hot dog guy in the stands has more. 

Who's that? Kessel? 

[Ghostsof1915]

So Ottawa has to go back home for the game tomorrow. Awwwww.

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

7 hours ago, Jaimito said:

All three opponents on a back to back playing Nux 

 

Sens, leafs, Habs. 

 

No excuses.  Sweep this road trip. 

Have Habs on our back to back

[tas]

5 hours ago, stawns said:

 

so many iconic Linden moments in the white jersey, the one with him and Kirk obviously, but also the hit through the glass against the Blues.  On the flip side, the black is always more about aggressive and, for me, it does get more aggressive than #10 bearing down on opposing dmen.

I think i have this simplistic, childhood light = good, dark = evil attachment to the white skate that is so ingrained it's hard to understand.

 

I feel like in the 90s we probably also saw the white skate more frequently than the black, since most of those tuesday night road games were spent sitting around the radio listening to jim robson. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by tas

[tas]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

he doesn't even hit, which is bizarre for someone with his size. He has 6 this season so far. The hot dog guy in the stands has more. 

the canucks under bo had the same issues as the oilers under McDavid: if your leader is only devoted to offense, so goes the rest of the team. 

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, tas said:

the canucks under bo had the same issues as the oilers under McDavid: if your leader is only devoted to offense, so goes the rest of the team. 

 

When Rutherford was talking about major surgery he wasn't messing around.

[stawns]

48 minutes ago, tas said:

the canucks under bo had the same issues as the oilers under McDavid: if your leader is only devoted to offense, so goes the rest of the team. 

Up until pre-season following the bubble run, things were good and Bo was a big part of that.  No questioned his leadership to that point.  Whatever happened in that off season/pre-season changed things in that room.  

[Alflives]

Just now, stawns said:

Up until pre-season following the bubble run, things were good and Bo was a big part of that.  No questioned his leadership to that point.  Whatever happened in that off season/pre-season changed things in that room.  

Isn’t that about when JTM made his public comments about the “shocking reset”? 

[stawns]

Just now, Alflives said:

Isn’t that about when JTM made his public comments about the “shocking reset”? 

My feelings on it are well known, and while you can dispute the active participants, the balance of power in the room changed and there was obviously a power struggle of some kind.......one that consumed the team for two seasons

[tas]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Up until pre-season following the bubble run, things were good and Bo was a big part of that.  No questioned his leadership to that point.  Whatever happened in that off season/pre-season changed things in that room.  

I liked bo, great guy, but I always felt like there should be more there. like, do you ever remember seeing him bleed for the team?

 

he played soft. it was a heavy soft, but it was still soft.