[Article] Canucks: Trevor Linden slams former GM Jim Benning in Sportsnet 650 interview

[Jaimito]

Bigger take away is that Linden prefers the stick in rink as the main logo/jersey.  

 

It was well speculated then that Linden and JB disagree on the direction and that's why he left.  This just confirms it.   When a Prez and the guy GM he hired JB disagree, you would think GM is the one to go.  Maybe AQ sided with JB, maybe Linden just didn't want to fire JB and just wanted to spend more time with his young child.  Who knows exactly what.  He didn't reveal it here.   But lack of alignment in the management sure lead to the disaster yrs that the current management is still trying to clean up.  

 

 

3 hours ago, DeltaSwede said:

Havent watched it myself yet. 

Edit:
- I believe Linden decides to backtrack on his previous comment about Benning being against the Pettersson pick, instead Linden wanted to encourage Delorme and others to contribute more, have a better drafting process. Fits in with what I have believed to be the story up till now and what Benning replied with. Due diligence. 
- Pretty sure Linden slipped up in the original interview.. He said something he didn't mean. They wined and dined Petey. I just watched his draft video the other day. It's super clear how he was the Canucks guy (and also Bennings). He's crying and hugging pretty much the entire staff when he get's to the table. I hadn't caught that feed before, good watch! 
- Linden wanted to focus on the future, "2020 vision, let's look to the year 2020",  says "certain people" found that difficult to accept. I'd assume it's ownership he is referring to. 

I don't know how I feel about it.. the first interview kinda left me a feeling that Linden just wants to get some credit after the fact. In the first one he didn't really answer the questions that were asked but rather went with his own agenda. Felt some of that in this one as well. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Jaimito

[KoreanHockeyFan]

50 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Weird how its brought up right now.

 

It's not being "brought up." Linden was asked a couple of questions about the 2017 draft and he gave an answer. The interview wasn't about just the 2017 draft, it was about his thoughts on the Canucks in general, and the draft question was a part of it.

 

The article that summed up the interview is an obvious hit piece that's trying to get clicks. There was no "slamming" from Linden.

 

People should listen to the interview in full to get the proper context.

 

[spook007]

3 hours ago, JamesB said:

1. Glad to get Linden's comments. I have had the pleasure of talking to Linden a few time personally and of course have seen him a lot on TV. He has always struck me as very straightforward and honest and he has a lot of credibility in my view.

 

2. Of course, we all tend to have selective memories and engage in ex post rationalization, so it does not surprise me that Benning has a slightly different take now, although he did not really dispute Linden's account. Yes, eventually he was on board with Petey, but that was after a lot of fist-pounding on the table by Brackett and the scouts. And it was the result of being pushed by Linden and others to put more emphasis on the scouts than on his own gut feeling.

 

3. I have tended to believe the rumours (now supported in a subtle way by Linden's comments) that Juolevi was a Benning guy. I also suspect that Benning picked Virtanen to "please" Francesco (another popular rumor). 

 

4. There were also rumors that have been pretty much substantiated that Brackett and Benning often disagreed and did not get along and that Brackett was a "Linden guy". And it is a fact that Benning made an insulting offer to Brackett that he felt he had to turn down rather than re-sign.

 

5. Now that the Canucks are doing well there are a few Benning loyalists claiming the Benning deserves credit for building the "core". I think that is wrong. If a team does badly enough for long enough it acquires enough high draft picks that it usually acquires two or three elite players. But going from there to building a good team is not easy and Benning was never smart enough to do that. I am very impressed with the way JR and Allvin have been able to build a good team around the core talents the team had. That includes getting a good coaching staff, making smart UFA acquisitions, good cap management, good prospect pipeline development (including drafting), etc.

 

 

 

I also ways like your takes on thing James, as you are always rational and considerate...

 

However, Benning did get Demko drafted (that was his scouts pick), He did draft Hughes, and most importantly, he did trade for Miller... Those moves were signed off by Benning... He also signed off on drafting McCann and Brock...

 

That he did a lot of garbage in-between is undeniable... But the Miller trade was really good.

 

I am chuffed to bits, that Aquilini finally saw sense and changed everything. 

 

That we are seeing under JR/PA are light years away from what we saw under Benning, and the coaches they brought in, are all experienced coaches.

The way they went about their business to build a massive front office seem to have worked massively in our favour, both with drafting and with Pro scouting. 

 

Its just disappointing that it took a decade for the owners to wake up and install a POH, who actually knew, what it takes to build a contender, instead of a rookie and and rookie GM that didn't share the same vision.

 

 

 

[spook007]

3 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

From the start since I joined CDC it was all Gillis fault, he couldn’t draft etc. 
While Benning was talked about as he was good because he was so good at the draft.

 

I’m kind if fed of that a GM is judged almost only by the drafted players.

That is so wrong because the organisation pays a lot of people to do that.

So when a player is drafted it depends on the organisation, not the GM.

And when a GM is so bad as Benning was it’s almost insulting to hear about it.

So I hope that Allvin gets judged on how he handles the organisation and not who he picks in the draft.

 

Think we all do... in the end it's the GMs job to assemble a team that can challenge for the cup. And so far Allvin has done a great job.

 

But it does help immensely, when you know that the entire team pulls in the same direction and share the same vision...

 

[canuck73_3]

51 minutes ago, filthy animal said:

I call BS on Benning supposedly telling Aquallini that he was taking Pettersson. There is no way in hell gms predetermine their pick the night before, unless youre picking number 1 or even 2. Theres always going to be heavy dialogue the day of the draft because nobody knows how the draft is going to unfold.

 

He was projected 7th so pretty fair he likely said I'm taking him unless someone goes really off the board.

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, Shekky said:

I was a Benning supporter for most of his time in Vancouver a lot of his explanations of there activity during free agency seemed to be thought out well. The results were absolutely terrible though and now I look back at that time and drafting was fine it was free agency that was absolutely a disaster for him. Trades were a mixed bag on one hand you get JT Miller and Tanner Pearson, On the other you get OEL.

 

I can't even credit Pearson on Benning. Pearson was good for the team but this basically a recovery plan after the disaster of trading McCann and a 2nd for Gudbransson. At the very least both trades cancel each other out.

 

Benning hasn't really made a trade that has made any positive substantial impact on the team except for JT Miller. If you have to go to his next best trade it's Vanek for Motte who is a good player but when the disparity of best trade to 2nd best trade is from a Top Line Forward that ends up being your Core Player to a 4th line player. Then it shows how many trades he lost (or at least stayed neutral). 

 

 

[iinatcc]

30 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

Bigger take away is that Liden prefers the stick in rink as the main logo/jersey.  

 

 

I do to. The best logos in sports tend to be the simplest in the NHL Montreal and Boston have simple logos that just works and pops. 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

 

I can't even credit Pearson on Benning. Pearson was good for the team but this basically a recovery plan after the disaster of trading McCann and a 2nd for Gudbransson. At the very least both trades cancel each other out.

 

Benning hasn't really made a trade that has made any positive substantial impact on the team except for JT Miller. If you have to go to his next best trade it's Vanek for Motte who is a good player but when the disparity of best trade to 2nd best trade is from a Top Line Forward that ends up being your Core Player to a 4th line player. Then it shows how many trades he lost (or at least stayed neutral). 

 

 

I mean there is some credit for salvaging something that obviously was not working.  He could have stuck to his guns and continued with something that wasn't a fit. 

[spook007]

3 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

Makar and Heiskanen was expected to be taken in the top 4. So I doubt the "other person" Linden mention was none of those two. 

 

I think the key take away here is that a scouting department that can run on it's own functionally is very important. So you could argue both Benning and the Scouting Department under Brackett should deserve credit for drafting Pettersson, the problem is how Judd Brackett left the organization because he wanted more autonomy to run the Scouting, something Linden was giving him but Benning decided to take back.

 

I don't think this is an issue of just who was the master mind that drafted Pettersson rather how poorly the organization was run when Benning took full control of Management.  

 

Bingo.... we have a winner

 

 

[Bob Long]

The only part of this that I care about is Delorme gets a little credit. Seems like a good guy. 

[BarneyKook]

the real story seems to be that a flawed process in 2016 led to Juolevi. There was obviously different opinions in this draft and Benning likely went with his choice - possibly positional pick over best player pick.

 

Linden wanted the process fixed in 2017 to give Bracket and scouts more say in the picks and it seems like it worked for at least the Petterson pick. Benning confirmed everyone on board for Petterson.

 

Didnt Bracket leave because he wanted full control of draft? It seems Benning was likely over ruling a lot of the scouts picks still.

Edited November 9, 2023 by BarneyKook

[N4ZZY]

29 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

He was projected 7th so pretty fair he likely said I'm taking him unless someone goes really off the board.

 

Could you imagine if Vegas or the Rangers took Petey? OMG. 

 

Where would we be if Benning whiffed on that pick? 

 

[N4ZZY]

4 minutes ago, BarneyKook said:

There was obviously different opinions in this draft and Benning likely went with his choice - possibly positional pick over best player pick.

 

Juolevi was the wrong choice. I know people say that he was where many 'experts' said he would be, around that area. But we had an opportunity to pick Tkachuk, and we whiffed on that. 

[J-23]

Watch the full interview before jumping to conclusions. Linden didn’t say anything disrespectful, just an honest answer.

 

Classic, media spinning the narrative.

[N4ZZY]

5 minutes ago, BarneyKook said:

the real story seems to be that a flawed process in 2016 led to Juolevi. There was obviously different opinions in this draft and Benning likely went with his choice - possibly positional pick over best player pick.

 

Linden wanted the process fixed in 2017 to give Bracket and scouts more say in the picks and it seems like it worked for at least the Petterson pick. Benning confirmed everyone on board for Petterson.

 

Didnt Bracket leave because he wanted full control of draft? It seems Benning was likely over ruling a lot of the scouts picks still.

 

I would've been okay to give Brackett control of the draft. Benning didn't seem like he was making good selections, if it's true that the GM picks in the first round, and then his scouting staff selects after round 1. Demko was 2nd round. Tryamkin 3rd round. I know GM's make mistakes all the time. They are human after all. But Benning seemed to make way too many mistakes from drafting in the top ten (Juolevi and Virtanen), to giving out bad contracts. 

[N4ZZY]

3 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

Makar and Heiskanen was expected to be taken in the top 4. So I doubt the "other person" Linden mention was none of those two. 

 

I think the key take away here is that a scouting department that can run on it's own functionally is very important. So you could argue both Benning and the Scouting Department under Brackett should deserve credit for drafting Pettersson, the problem is how Judd Brackett left the organization because he wanted more autonomy to run the Scouting, something Linden was giving him but Benning decided to take back.

 

I don't think this is an issue of just who was the master mind that drafted Pettersson rather how poorly the organization was run when Benning took full control of Management.  

 

Yes. With that being said, Benning didn't run and manage things well after he took over either. The last 8 years has a testimony to that nightmare. There's a reason he's not in professional NHL hockey circles anymore. Nobody wants the man, after what he's done to this franchise. 

 

[Jaimito]

 

[spook007]

3 hours ago, DeltaSwede said:

Havent watched it myself yet. 

Edit:
- I believe Linden decides to backtrack on his previous comment about Benning being against the Pettersson pick, instead Linden wanted to encourage Delorme and others to contribute more, have a better drafting process. Fits in with what I have believed to be the story up till now and what Benning replied with. Due diligence. 
- Pretty sure Linden slipped up in the original interview.. He said something he didn't mean. They wined and dined Petey. I just watched his draft video the other day. It's super clear how he was the Canucks guy (and also Bennings). He's crying and hugging pretty much the entire staff when he get's to the table. I hadn't caught that feed before, good watch! 
- Linden wanted to focus on the future, "2020 vision, let's look to the year 2020",  says "certain people" found that difficult to accept. I'd assume it's ownership he is referring to. 

I don't know how I feel about it.. the first interview kinda left me a feeling that Linden just wants to get some credit after the fact. In the first one he didn't really answer the questions that were asked but rather went with his own agenda. Felt some of that in this one as well. 
 

 

Thank you very much for posting Delta.... Good listen.

[JamesB]

59 minutes ago, spook007 said:

 

That we are seeing under JR/PA are light years away from what we saw under Benning, and the coaches they brought in, are all experienced coaches.

The way they went about their business to build a massive front office seem to have worked massively in our favour, both with drafting and with Pro scouting. 

 

Its just disappointing that it took a decade for the owners to wake up and install a POH, who actually knew, what it takes to build a contender, instead of a rookie and and rookie GM that didn't share the same vision.

 

Could not agree more. Absolutely on target.

 

I have been a bit tough on Benning when I think the real failure was with ownership.  I still cannot understand it. That is not just another way of saying I disagree with ownership decisions. I really cannot understand it as Francesco Aquilini is a smart guy (and so is Roberto Aquilini).

 

Anyway, I was delighted when JR was hired and have also been very impressed by Alvin and the rest of the management team and coaching staff.

 

With Benning I would often disagree with a decision and, as time passed, pretty much always moved increasingly into "I told you so" territory. With JR and Alvin it is the reverse. When I have been negative about a decision I find that as time passes I say to myself "well, looks like I wrong and JR/PA really know what they are doing." It is almost enough to make me stop criticizing management decisions.

Edited November 9, 2023 by JamesB

[BarneyKook]

this just seems like speculation that if Linden didnt fix the draft process after 2016 that Benning may have picked someone else. Benning says he was onboard. So the new process worked at least for the Petterson pick.

 

The real story imo is the flawed process in 2016 that led to Juolevi

[4petesake]

1 minute ago, BarneyKook said:

this just seems like speculation that if Linden didnt fix the draft process after 2016 that Benning may have picked someone else. Benning says he was onboard. So the new process worked at least for the Petterson pick.

 

The real story imo is the flawed process in 2016 that led to Juolevi

 

That’s what I got as well.

Trev is making the rounds to promote Men’s Mental Health Check after which he replies to questions. It’s not like he set out to slag JB. I actually thought the bigger story after the  Juolevi pick would be his comment along the lines of “everybody just do what you want under Bruce.” 

[AatuD2]

13 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

Aren't there still a bunch of Benning loyalists here who credit him with drafting Pettersson?  Imagine where we'd be with Cody Glass right now.

 

 

My point has always been that you can't pick and choose what you give him credit for and what you blame on him. 

 

It's all or nothing. 

 

He was the GM for all of it and it was his final decision. 

 

I'm pretty sure that Linden regrets making these comments, comes off a pretty petty when taken out of context, but he was just simply explaining where the franchise was at in 2017 in terms of it's process. 

 

Does that make me a "Benning apologist"? 

[Strawbone]

10 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

That’s what I got as well.

Trev is making the rounds to promote Men’s Mental Health Check after which he replies to questions. It’s not like he set out to slag JB. I actually thought the bigger story after the  Juolevi pick would be his comment along the lines of “everybody just do what you want under Bruce.” 

 

Yeah I caught the dig at Bruce's coaching too. I mean, he's not wrong, but that surprised me that he would say it publicly. 

[AatuD2]

30 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

 

Could you imagine if Vegas or the Rangers took Petey? OMG. 

 

Where would we be if Benning whiffed on that pick? 

 

 

If you watch the Mic'd up 2017 Draft video, Benning is considering moving down a spot but is unwilling to move down further because he's afraid that Rangers will select Petey. 

[Jaimito]