[Article] Canucks: Trevor Linden slams former GM Jim Benning in Sportsnet 650 interview

[conquestofbaguettes]

9 hours ago, filthy animal said:

 

Really now?

 

Benning said he'd love to acquire draft picks, and they are like gold to him (something like that) - proceeded to trade more picks than any of his predecessors

 

Benning said that he wanted to sign Tanev and Markstrom - had no contact with their agents at all

 

Benning said he "ran out of time" to sign Toffoli - he didn't contact his agent once. There was the bubble offseason and what, 10 days when FA started. Thats a long ass time. Oh thats right, he was too busy trying to get a backup on the downside of his career (Holtby) who trashed this franchise on his way out, had an obsession with OEL who he chased relentlessly and settled for Nate Schidt who in the end, couldnt wait to get to Winnipeg rather than stay here.

 

Real honest

 

As for Linden being disgruntled. Imagine working for a company that you absolutely love and would like to see them succeed in every way possible and the guy that YOU hired went behind your back and got you fired. Would you or would you not be pissed off?

 

Thats what I thought

And you thought wrong. 

 

Trevor had an idealistic rebuild plan and ownership said no. That's what happened. Nobody tried to get anyone fired. Trevor got himself fired.

 

And just because a person says what they would like to have doesn't mean they actually can. There's also the reality of a situation.

 

Yes, Benning is honest. So honest in fact you use his words against him. "Ran out of time"  right?  Nice of him to give us that honest answer for you to throw in his face.

 

The story goes they were trying to move money to keep him, ran out time finding a team because of the pandemic flat cap and no teams able to do so. Benning stated exactly that the presser that off season.  Yes, honest.

 

Toffoli camp got impatient and signed elsewhere.  Toffoli was viewed as luxury supporting piece and wasn't exactly top of the priority list. Toffi camp got sick of waiting and signed elsewhere.

 

Toffi was never originally supposed to be a rental, but ended up that way due to outside constraints.

 

Love Tanev, but he's older player with a long injury history.

 

And Marky cost too much thanks to Clarkie.

 

Secondly, look what's happening in Calgary last few years... especially with Markstrom. Letting them walk was the right decision! Lol And how many teams has Toffoli been through since then?

 

Moot.

 

The real problem is that the unforeseeable pandemic flat world cap put any possible gains on hold for us to actually see.

 

Even Rutherford said it at the press conference this year. Teams were making moves thinking the cap would keep going up and he would have done the same thing.

 

Again, there's more things we need to look at than just what happened on paper especially if we want to place judgment and blame.

Edited November 12, 2023 by conquestofbaguettes

[Alflives]

Good for Trevor. We went from our most successful GM ever (Gillis) to our worst ever (Benning) 

[Snoop Hogg]

Too bad he didn’t body or choke slam him.

[Wiggums]

How did we not once capitalize on any of our open cap space during a time where we were retooling?   Why is it that year after year we watch rebuilding/retooling teams take on contracts to relieve other teams whilst also accepting sweeteners.  

 

Why did we have to sign the Tim Schaller's to 2m dollar contracts?  The Sam Gagners,  Jay Beagles etc  WE gave up picks for middling players during this time as well and it all lead to bottom place finishes when we could of been taking on other teams unwanted veterans, still finished near the bottom and could of recouped assets like any good GM does.  Benning was worthless.  He was given a book full of blank cheques and was given full autonomy of everything and did nothing with it.  

 

 

[iinatcc]

3 hours ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

The real problem is that the unforeseeable pandemic flat world cap put any possible gains on hold for us to actually see.

 

 

Don't see the pandemic as an excuse, every team had the same handicap that resulted in the flat cap and the loss of revenue. Yet it's Vancouver that was the most impacted negatively 

 

21 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

How did we not once capitalize on any of our open cap space during a time where we were retooling?   Why is it that year after year we watch rebuilding/retooling teams take on contracts to relieve other teams whilst also accepting sweeteners.  

 

Why did we have to sign the Tim Schaller's to 2m dollar contracts?  The Sam Gagners,  Jay Beagles etc  WE gave up picks for middling players during this time as well and it all lead to bottom place finishes when we could of been taking on other teams unwanted veterans, still finished near the bottom and could of recouped assets like any good GM does.  Benning was worthless.  He was given a book full of blank cheques and was given full autonomy of everything and did nothing with it.  

 

Mean and potatoes, we know Benning loves them 

Edited November 12, 2023 by iinatcc

[iinatcc]

3 hours ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

 

 

Secondly, look what's happening in Calgary last few years... especially with Markstrom. Letting them walk was the right decision! Lol And how many teams has Toffoli been through since then?

 

 

Um on this Toffoli is in his 3rd team because the teams he was apart of were either bad, he refused to resign, or both. 

None of this had anything to do with Toffoli per se considering his point production at a 4 x 4.25 Mil contract. 

Toffoli has always been a supplental player and a good value one all things considered.

 

The fact that Benning couldn't pay a Top 6 winger on that contract but over pay a 4th line Center 4 x 3 million, is just bad management sense.

[Riddikulus]

17 hours ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

Benning has always been forthright and honest. So honest in fact he was once fined by the league for it.

 

I'll take his word over an old disgruntled employee who was hired to be a PR front and then quit when he found out they weren't gonna follow his idealistic plans. I like Linden, but his job as President was a front. Nothing more.

 

And it doesn't matter anyway. Benning signed the dotted line on all the picks. Good AND bad.

Actually based on what Linden has said, the process at the 2016 draft was something that he saw as a problem and there were changes made at the 2017 draft to empower the scouting department and Judd Brackett in particular to have more say with what happened with the picks. And Linden was President of Hockey Ops, he was the one who had the highest authority in the room, the same way that its JR's show right now. We could have very easily walked away with Cody Glass if Linden hadn't handed over the reigns to Brackett and the scouting department. After Linden was undercut by Benning and resigned, Benning chose to take back control of the scouting department and undermined Brackett which led to him leaving for Minnesota.

[Jeremy Hronek]

5 hours ago, Riddikulus said:

We could have very easily walked away with Cody Glass if Linden hadn't handed over the reigns to Brackett and the scouting department. After Linden was undercut by Benning and resigned, Benning chose to take back control of the scouting department and undermined Brackett which led to him leaving for Minnesota.

 

All of the above is speculative.  

 

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson.  

 

There is evidence to suggest that Benning may have wanted to trade his 2017 1OA as part of a packaged deal to land Makar or Heiskanen (since Benning openly stated that he loved the elite defensemen in that draft), but no other evidence of anything else.  

[LillStrimma]

10 hours ago, Wiggums said:

How did we not once capitalize on any of our open cap space during a time where we were retooling?   Why is it that year after year we watch rebuilding/retooling teams take on contracts to relieve other teams whilst also accepting sweeteners.  

 

Why did we have to sign the Tim Schaller's to 2m dollar contracts?  The Sam Gagners,  Jay Beagles etc  WE gave up picks for middling players during this time as well and it all lead to bottom place finishes when we could of been taking on other teams unwanted veterans, still finished near the bottom and could of recouped assets like any good GM does.  Benning was worthless.  He was given a book full of blank cheques and was given full autonomy of everything and did nothing with it.  

 

 

This is what the Benning fan club don’t understand.

They talk about surrounding the prospects with vets. The bad thing with Bennings vets were that they cost too much.

[LillStrimma]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

All of the above is speculative.  

 

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson.  

 

There is evidence to suggest that Benning may have wanted to trade his 2017 1OA as part of a packaged deal to land Makar or Heiskanen (since Benning openly stated that he loved the elite defensemen in that draft), but no other evidence of anything else.  

Where there is smoke it’s usually burning.

 

Too much happened around Benning to just be speculative.

Benning could be a moron. That would explain it. He can be a narcissist. That would also explain it.

But ”Benning is honest” doesn’t explain it.

 

[Riddikulus]

10 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

All of the above is speculative.  

 

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson.  

 

There have been plenty of articles written about Benning wanting Glass, as well as quotes by Benning himself. There is enough evidence if you are open to it.

On 11/11/2023 at 5:53 PM, RWJC said:

“He’s good in all three zones and the thing about him is his execution rate with the puck is high,” Benning told me. “He can make a play that leads to a scoring chance.”

 

10 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

There is evidence to suggest that Benning may have wanted to trade his 2017 1OA as part of a packaged deal to land Makar or Heiskanen (since Benning openly stated that he loved the elite defensemen in that draft), but no other evidence of anything else.  

Linden himself said after the draft that their draft board had one player higher than Pettersson, that player was Makar. If what you are saying is true, then Linden would not have brought the disagreement at all, since consensus among Canucks scouts was that Makar was the better prospect at the time. Pettersson was #2 on the board, so they had him higher than Heiskanen, so they would not have been trading up for Heiskanen. I tend to take Linden at his word. As he himself has mentioned, he doesn't need to defend the job that he did since he is not desperate to get a job in a NHL front office. I believe that as unlike Benning he didn't tell ownership exactly what they wanted to hear. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

29 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

  On 11/12/2023 at 6:53 AM, RWJC said:

“He’s good in all three zones and the thing about him is his execution rate with the puck is high,” Benning told me. “He can make a play that leads to a scoring chance.”

Yes he praises Cody Glass, but how does that imply that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson?  I am open to the evidence if I am presented with actual evidence instead of Prince Charles' urine.  

 

Quote

Linden himself said after the draft that their draft board had one player higher than Pettersson, that player was Makar. If what you are saying is true, then Linden would not have brought the disagreement at all, since consensus among Canucks scouts was that Makar was the better prospect at the time. Pettersson was #2 on the board, so they had him higher than Heiskanen, so they would not have been trading up for Heiskanen.

 

Can you find me that exact quote?  I can find you the link/article where Benning explicitly states that he likes Cale Makar, and heavily infers that this is whom he may have selected had he been available.  Funny - in this article, Benning also states why he/they clearly liked Pettersson over Glass!

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/draft-notebook-if-makar-was-available-canucks-could-have-been-sweating

 

@Riddikulus

[Riddikulus]

24 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Yes he praises Cody Glass, but how does that imply that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson?  I am open to the evidence if I am presented with actual evidence instead of Prince Charles' urine.  

Do you not take Linden's words as evidence that Benning wanted someone else at #5? The draft went Hischier, Patrick, Makar, Heiskanen then Pettersson, Benning liked Glass, articles have been written that say that he wanted Glass, you can dismiss all of this as speculation but imho there is enough evidence available that supports the speculation.  

24 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Can you find me that exact quote?  I can find you the link/article where Benning explicitly states that he likes Cale Makar, and heavily infers that this is whom he may have selected had he been available.  Funny - in this article, Benning also states why he/they clearly liked Pettersson over Glass!

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/draft-notebook-if-makar-was-available-canucks-could-have-been-sweating

 

@Riddikulus

It was in an interview with Sekeres and Price right after the draft where Linden states that they had one player ahead of Pettersson and it wasn't Hischier or Patrick. The media was able to figure out that the player was Makar. Seeing as Makar was gone at #3, and the scouting staff had Makar as the #1 prospect, what possible disagreement between Benning and the scouting staff could Linden possibly be referring to? Benning had to support the pick after the draft was over, you don't as a GM go out and say that you wanted to select another player.

 

Cale Makar? Trevor Zegras? How Canucks could have looked if the draft lottery didn’t exist - The Athletic

Edited November 13, 2023 by Riddikulus

[conquestofbaguettes]

20 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Don't see the pandemic as an excuse, every team had the same handicap that resulted in the flat cap and the loss of revenue. Yet it's Vancouver that was the most impacted negatively

 

It's not on "excuse." Its reality.

We simply cannot ignore the affects of the flat cap on a team that was betting on the cap going up as projected, especially for that type of rebuild approach ownership demanded. It's not the same as being some team at the top pushing for cups that miss out on a rental or two. The team was at it's most vulnerable. Some self inflected but mostly unforeseeable force majuere. It's simply did not affect every team equally.

 

Secondly, if they had foreknowledge, they wouldn't have signed certain guys to certain deals in the first place. Eg. Tyler Myers 6x6. Projections change. The % of cap that contract would eat would be far less over time.

 

Butterfly effect, dude.

[conquestofbaguettes]

10 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Where there is smoke it’s usually burning.

 

Too much happened around Benning to just be speculative.

Benning could be a moron. That would explain it. He can be a narcissist. That would also explain it.

But ”Benning is honest” doesn’t explain it.

 

Yes, Jim Benning was honest. Still is even to this day.   He even got fined from the league for being honest. Remember.

 

All the other stuff is mostly just horseshit.

[R3aL]

On 11/9/2023 at 12:22 AM, Miss Korea said:

Aren't there still a bunch of Benning loyalists here who credit him with drafting Pettersson?  Imagine where we'd be with Cody Glass right now.

Bet he wanted rasmussen seems like a benning pick haha

[conquestofbaguettes]

20 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

Um on this Toffoli is in his 3rd team because the teams he was apart of were either bad, he refused to resign, or both. 

None of this had anything to do with Toffoli per se considering his point production at a 4 x 4.25 Mil contract. 

Toffoli has always been a supplental player and a good value one all things considered.

 

The fact that Benning couldn't pay a Top 6 winger on that contract but over pay a 4th line Center 4 x 3 million, is just bad management sense.

No.  Toffoli is on his 4th team in like 5 years because he's not a core guy. He's a luxury winger.

 

I like the guy but let's be real here.

 

They needed to move money to keep him due to the flat cap.. Benning said it straight up at the press conference that offseason.  And Toffi wasn't exactly on the top of the list of need on that team at that time with those constraints. they needed to move money. Nobody taking money on. Goodbye UFA. Pretty cut and dry.

[Kevin Biestra]

Smashing Benning because he might possibly have wanted someone other than Pettersson but he still picked Pettersson anyway.

 

The guy has enough actual bad picks and bad trades to smash him for.

[R3aL]

10 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Where there is smoke it’s usually burning.

 

Too much happened around Benning to just be speculative.

Benning could be a moron. That would explain it. He can be a narcissist. That would also explain it.

But ”Benning is honest” doesn’t explain it.

 

I think Benning had an overinflated ego as a draft god. 
 

That’s how he carried himself and that’s why I think he felt comfortable having less draft picks.

 

Which would have a narcissist element to him.

 

but he didn’t really scout as deep as our scouts he’d watch a few games and watch the world juniors and think he’s got it all figured out. 
 

i think after linden was gone the team

got stripped down a little resource wise and he was overwhelmed with not enough support, an overinflated ego who wanted to keep his job probably assured Aquaman whatever he wanted to hear and the way the org operated during those years was kind of Mickey Mouse operation

 

Not talking to toffolis camp at all was Mickey Mouse.

 

-

 

im happy things have changed and love the way things have been changing culturally 

 

exciting times!

 

 

 

 

[conquestofbaguettes]

On 11/12/2023 at 11:23 AM, Alflives said:

Good for Trevor. We went from our most successful GM ever (Gillis) to our worst ever (Benning) 

 

Which isn't true.

 

Gillis' great works are vastly overstated.  Nonis and Burke built that bulk of that 2011 team we all love.  And Benning was far from the worst.

[Ballisticsports]

On 11/11/2023 at 9:23 AM, conquestofbaguettes said:

Gillis left the next regime with zero prospects in the pipeline to build around due to shit drafting, and virtually zero assets that would fetch 1st round picks. Gillis left a mess.

 

Also, you're wrong. It was never "playoffs of else."

 

 

 

 

You say he had a bad hand and Yet in 2016 Even JB Disagreed with you and said the exact opposite and that we would be up competing with the elite teams in 2018 and 2019 

Linden at the same time said it was 4-5 years

Linden helped get JB his extension and from that point JB was reporting directly to owners

From those close to Linden, the story was that it was Weisbrod who went directly to ownership, directly or indirectly, and worked to convince them Linden's  plan was the wrong direction for them and promised Ownership 2 yrs instead

 

“Realistically, if you’re asking me when will the day be that we can compete with the best teams in the league, I think that [Sedin contract] timeline is fair,” said Benning. “This is year two, and by our fourth or fifth year, I hope we’ll be there with the elite teams in the league.”

 

In response to later questions asking for more of a plan or a timeline, Benning said that, after seven years, he needs a couple more.

 

To remind you, it is now the 2023/24 Season (Even Aquaman now knows he was hoodwinked and said he should have released him a few years ago) and the years he stayed on after that statement, even set us further back with more blunders than Linden's plan in 2016

JB had no plan and was bumbling around, He was like a kid when given his allowance had great ambitions and think he'd put it in the bank and save for something expensive he really wanted, but when he went into the candy shop he was broke again

 

There is no reason to sign overpaid vets to long term contracts and outbid the rest of the league to get them,(when at the league bottom) there were plenty of quality hard working players who were not big names to do that (VGK as examples) to play beside your youngsters to lead them

 

He had a longer kick at the can than most GM's and kept them at the bottom of the standing longer than anyone, with the highest amount of draft picks available

 

I recall Gillis talking how he would’ve recaptured the draft picks the Canucks had traded away to help win them the Cup.

“We had a plan for that,” said Gillis. “We had really strong players who were highly desirable. We had some trades on the table at the deadline before I got fired that would’ve changed the landscape of the team.”

“There were a couple and they didn’t happen. That was an organizational decision that didn’t happen.”

They also were after Larkin (instead of JV) and along with Horvat (Henrik) would have been a good middle

 

Thank Goodness we moved on from that gong show that alienated the Management team (as Smyl stated) and divided and lost many long term fans for good

Now we can actually see a management team with a plan working together as a team and instill some confidence

[Alflives]

Just now, conquestofbaguettes said:

 

Which isn't true.

 

Gillis' great works are vastly overstated.  Nonis and Burke built that bulk of that 2011 team we all love.  And Benning was far from the worst.

Sorry fellow Canuck fan but it’s inarguable fact that while Gillis was our GM (and POHO too) our club had its best seasons. Two Presidents’ trophies and two games played to win the Cup. 

[iinatcc]

9 minutes ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

No.  Toffoli is on his 4th team in like 5 years because he's not a core guy. He's a luxury winger.

 

I like the guy but let's be real here.

 

They needed to move money to keep him due to the flat cap.. Benning said it straight up at the press conference that offseason.  And Toffi wasn't exactly on the top of the list of need on that team at that time with those constraints. they needed to move money. Nobody taking money on. Goodbye UFA. Pretty cut and dry.

 

I didn't say her was a core guy. I said supplemental player. 

 

So not Toffoli but Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel, Brandon Sutter, and Loui Eriksson? 

[conquestofbaguettes]

2 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

et in 2016 Even JB Disagreed with you and said the exact opposite and that we would be up competing with the elite teams in 2018 and 2019 

And then there was a pandemic lol. Yeah.

 

2 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

, the story was that it was Weisbrod who went directly to ownership, directly or indirectly, and worked to convince them Linden's  plan was the wrong direction for them and promised

Total conjecture

3 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

even set us further back with more blunders than Linden's plan in 2016

Nonsense.

3 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

JB had no plan and was bumbling around

No. They had a plan. One that people simply fail to recognize.

 

You should listen to the interview with former Canucks agm Chris gear I posted earlier

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

There is no reason to sign overpaid vets to long term contracts and outbid the rest of the league to get them,(when at the league bottom) there were plenty o

Which fails to see team for what they were and the purpose of even rebuilding the way they did.

 

"Stay competitive" and keep asses in the seats while also rebuilding for the future.  Dual goals.   All those overpaid FAs didn't matter in the long run.  Open roster roles.

 

 

The problem I see with so many is this idea that "a rebuild is like this. And if you don't do it exactly like this you're doing it wrong."   All these preconceived notions and judgements about how and what you have to do or its bad.   Its all bs.

9 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

He had a longer kick at the can than most GM's

Sure did.

Was doing a lot ownership liked for a long time.  Guess what that was.

 

10 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

I recall Gillis talking how he would’ve recaptured the draft picks the Canucks had traded away to help win them the Cup.

“We had a plan for that,” said Gillis. “We had really strong players who were highly desirable.

Which is BS. We didn't get much for those players.   Except who. Kesler? And he tied our hands.   Gillis was wrong.  They were giving Hank and Danny another shot because the org felt indebted to them. It was never a realistic plan on Gillis' part.  Nor on Trevor Linden and tanking.   Idealism and nothing but.

 

13 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

Thank Goodness we moved on from that gong show that alienated the Management team (as Smyl stated)

Smyl didn't say that. You're sure spinning it that way though.

 

And much like management before Gillis, with Nonis and Burke, the heavy lifting was done before him. Same goes for Rutherford and Allvin. THANK YOU BENNING FOR OUR CORE.

 

The core that JR and PA refused to blow up. Lol. And no matter what anyone says Bennings fingerprints are all over this club even still today. In good ways and bad.

[Nucker67]

Throwing the previous GM under the bus like that, pretty cutthroat. Is he looking for a job or something?